This Is A Very Bad Offseason

[DaBoltsNIsles]

esls I respect you but disagree with you. We already have teams (Carolina being one) saying they can not generate enough money to pay to the ceiling. They said in an article that was posted here by dash I think that they would not be able to sign Cole and will impose a team ceiling on their own.

Smaller market teams can not generate the revenue that larger market teams can. That is not speculation that is an obvious fact.

I ran a large department for a company making millions and if you have a good year you CAN NOT start throwing money around like drunken sailors. There are up's and downs and if you have a few good years in a row and give the players big time money when the bad years come they are not going to knock at the door and give it back without a fight.

Also the lockout was suppose to help lower ticket prices, Did that happen? The fans pay the bills and in the economy we have right now buying tickets to sporting events falls behind people paying their bills and feeding their families.

AGAIN, I will take a bet with ANYONE that if the NHL keeps going down this road there is trouble on the horizon. I do not want to see the NHL turn into MLB where only a handful of teams have a chance to win because they are in big markets.

You said "then only way a team can fail miserably is to have very little support", not true. The Canes draw good crowds and now are having problems. They will not be the last to have these problems. It's basic economics that you can generate more money in a market of 5 mil than 1.5 mil. There is advertising and commercial sales along with merchandise sales. The numbers don't work out and that's obvious with the situation in Carolina.

They better get financially responsible and do it fast. I was afraid this would happen when they signed that deal with NBC/Versus. They felt good about themselves and it was like giving a hundred dollars to a crack addict. They were not going to buy food with it, they were going to blow it.

Again it looks like the league will need to step in and protect the owners from themselves.

JMO Folks.

There are a number of teams that have self imposed caps. Nashville is one. I think there will always be teams that will spend to the ceiling no matter what. It all depends on how much the owner wants to win. Ed Snider of the Flyers wants to win. The Rangers will always be a cap ceiling team.

I believe the biggest issue once negotiations begin on the next CBA is going to be CAP CONTROL. Which for me means a set hard cap each season. It's going to be one hell of a battle between the players & the owners that's for sure. I also wonder if the topic of revenue sharing will come up between the owners. I know one thing the owners are going to attempt to get rid of that rule that allows the players to increase the cap. That's going to be a very touchy subject.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

There are a number of teams that have self imposed caps. Nashville is one. I think there will always be teams that will spend to the ceiling no matter what. It all depends on how much the owner wants to win. Ed Snider of the Flyers wants to win. The Rangers will always be a cap ceiling team.

I believe the biggest issue once negotiations begin on the next CBA is going to be CAP CONTROL. Which for me means a set hard cap each season. It's going to be one hell of a battle between the players & the owners that's for sure. I also wonder if the topic of revenue sharing will come up between the owners. I know one thing the owners are going to attempt to get rid of that rule that allows the players to increase the cap. That's going to be a very touchy subject.

What revenue sharing? The network contracts? My point is the money a team can generate within their own market. Damn , I give up on this subject.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

What revenue sharing? The network contracts? My point is the money a team can generate within their own market. Damn , I give up on this subject.

As you know some teams can't help themselves. They're going to spend regardless. Others can't do the same. In terms of revenue sharing I meant splitting the gate like the NFL does. The home team in the NFL gets all the luxury suite money, but the other seats are split 60/40. I don't know how it would work, but it's something they might look into.

 

[esls79]

Carolina was right around 20th in attendance this past year. If Carolina made the playoffs more than twice since the lockout, they probably wouldn't be in the shape they are in - they need the playoff revenue to compete with the large market clubs. Yeah, they are at a disadvantage as far as market size goes, but they are not failing. You don't have to spend to the cap to make the playoffs - look at Nashville. Spending to the cap doesn't get you very far either- look at Minnesota.

The fact is, this system works far better than the previous. If you want every team to have a fair and truly equal shot, then the MLS business model may work better (essentially it leans towards socialism). I don't see how a league can have every team in a given season be profitable and able to spend to the cap ceiling - the only way that every team get be in the black on its books is with some type of revenue sharing coupled with tv/advertising monies thrown in. I'm pretty sure this season is the pinnacle of the upward movement of the cap.

As for ticket prices, let the supply and demand work itself out in the market - it always does unless the government gets involved. One other factor to consider when looking at these contracts is they are in US dollars - and right now, the greenback isn't nearly as strong as it historically is 1 million today is 700,000 right after the lockout.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

As you know some teams can't help themselves. They're going to spend regardless. Others can't do the same. In terms of revenue sharing I meant splitting the gate like the NFL does. The home team in the NFL gets all the luxury suite money, but the other seats are split 60/40. I don't know how it would work, but it's something they might look into.

I agree, but the better do something. Sorry if I sounded like a dick but I know how this shit works (trust me) and I love the sport and don't want it to go down the crapper like MLB has.

A few years ago when the NFL changed their "revenue sharing" with the players there were two owners that said "This is a bad deal" The Bills owner and the Browns owner. They were out voted 30-2 and NOW the others realized they made a mistake but no one listened to them. I showed the link to Comeds and posted it.

I will try and find it again if you want. It's proof that if the NHL keeps doing what they are doing there will be trouble ahead.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Carolina was right around 20th in attendance this past year. If Carolina made the playoffs more than twice since the lockout, they probably wouldn't be in the shape they are in - they need the playoff revenue to compete with the large market clubs. Yeah, they are at a disadvantage as far as market size goes, but they are not failing. You don't have to spend to the cap to make the playoffs - look at Nashville. Spending to the cap doesn't get you very far either- look at Minnesota.

The fact is, this system works far better than the previous. If you want every team to have a fair and truly equal shot, then the MLS business model may work better (essentially it leans towards socialism). I don't see how a league can have every team in a given season be profitable and able to spend to the cap ceiling - the only way that every team get be in the black on its books is with some type of revenue sharing coupled with tv/advertising monies thrown in. I'm pretty sure this season is the pinnacle of the upward movement of the cap.

As for ticket prices, let the supply and demand work itself out in the market - it always does unless the government gets involved. One other factor to consider when looking at these contracts is they are in US dollars - and right now, the greenback isn't nearly as strong as it historically is 1 million today is 700,000 right after the lockout.

So the cap floor right now in 9 mil more than the ceiling was after the lockout after only how many years? So if they keep increasing at this pace with the economy the way it is this is a good thing?

If the GDT was growing as fast as the NHL cap annually we would all be in great shape. Sorry, I still don't get it. I could be wrong, maybe the entitlement programs will allow people to purchase season tickets.

 

[esls79]

I don't think the economy has any bearing on this discussion other than it can affect the revenues if fans stop buying tickets - and as a whole, it hasn't stopped the fans from buying tickets. The salary cap is tied to revenue - sure the cap floor today is higher than the ceiling the first year after the lockout, but look at league revenues today compared to six years ago. I'm pretty sure they underestimated revenues when it was initially set up.

You can't just assume the cap keeps going up - eventually it finds an equilibrium - the reason it went up this year was because of a player elected clause more than anything else.

I agree, it seems like it will not stop going up in a rather lackluster economy, but there are measures built in the cap that will prevent a total disaster.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

I don't think the economy has any bearing on this discussion other than it can affect the revenues if fans stop buying tickets - and as a whole, it hasn't stopped the fans from buying tickets. The salary cap is tied to revenue - sure the cap floor today is higher than the ceiling the first year after the lockout, but look at league revenues today compared to six years ago. I'm pretty sure they underestimated revenues when it was initially set up.

You can't just assume the cap keeps going up - eventually it finds an equilibrium - the reason it went up this year was because of a player elected clause more than anything else.

I agree, it seems like it will not stop going up in a rather lackluster economy, but there are measures built in the cap that will prevent a total disaster.

Well I hope you're right there. I'm too tired and sick to debate this anymore. Like I said I respect your opinion always.

 

[elocomotive]

Nope, I just do not see these numbers being that different from previous years UFA frenzies.

This^. If the numbers keep going up because of growth and inflation, then the league should be able to afford it. If the system is sound, which it seems to be, minor fluctuations shouldn't make a big difference.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

This^. If the numbers keep going up because of growth and inflation, then the league should be able to afford it. If the system is sound, which it seems to be, minor fluctuations shouldn't make a big difference.

The amount of money being spent is less only because of the quality of players available. This is a very weak UFA class & future years will get weaker because teams are signing their top young players to long term contracts.

To put things in perspective their are a number of MLB teams with payrolls less than the NHL Cap Floor. Considering the difference in the amount of games & the capacity of an arena compared to a ballpark this fact is staggering. In the next CBA the players can't be allowed to increase the cap & the Owners must be held to a strict cap that can't go up or down for the length of the agreement.