THE PAC12 THREAD v.4

[socaljim242]

I agree with the bold, which is why I would rather see them paid a minimum wage level stipend, at least in the off season, than have money put away in some account that they get when they leave school. The reason some of these guys take money now, is because they need money now. Money in some account that they can't access until they graduate, doesn't do anything for them today.

Also, I understand that some of these players wouldn't be in college and getting a degree if they couldn't play football. But once they graduate, they can still go out and get a job and they will have a degree and likely some connections that will give them some advantages that they wouldn't otherwise have. I would also have no issue if the school had a job placement program set up to assist them after they graduate.

Most of these players with degrees they never would have gotten get jobs with alumni because they were football players and schools (especially USC) take care of their own. It's reality and it's the same at ND and Stanford who go after some of the same players. Heck Manti Teo could have gone anywhere and he's a good guy but was someone who would have never sniffed college if it wasn't for football.

 

[socaljim242]

Investments in mega facilities is an arms race, not a luxury expense. If you don't do these things you can't keep up with the other schools and don't end up making the same profits. You MUST spend on your programs to compete. It really isn't optional. So suggesting they have money for the players if they just don't spend huge amounts on facilities shows a total lack of understanding of how this all works.

UW knows they must upgrade their basketball facilities if they want to get back to competing at a high level and yet cannot afford to do so. That upgrade would ultimately bring them in more money and yet they can't swing it right now and don't have plans on the front burner to do so.

If they can't afford to spend money in areas that would lead to bringing in more profits then where exactly is the money you believe they have lying around in fat stacks to give the kids?

Again, just making general statements that they must have a lot of money because of the revenue brought in by football isn't good enough to substantiate your argument. You need details.

They have come a long way and mostly have it right IMO. Give them enough so they aren't broke in the off season, but not enough to go buying expensive toys, and you are probably as high as I'd be willing to see it go. They don't need or deserve to make windfall amounts of money off of college athletics.

Give me a break. Didn't they just hire Jeff Tedford as a consultant? You think they are paying him 30K? was he there last year? How did they afford him? What sports team got cut to pay him? Get out of here with they don't have the money. One phone call to a booster and they get money. They wont make the baseball team walk to games if they gave small percentage to the football team. You know, the ones who make it all possible.

 

[WizardHawk]

Most of these players with degrees they never would have gotten get jobs with alumni because they were football players and schools (especially USC) take care of their own. It's reality and it's the same at ND and Stanford who go after some of the same players. Heck Manti Teo could have gone anywhere and he's a good guy but was someone who would have never sniffed college if it wasn't for football.

And those are great perks for the risks you take playing a game they all love.

They make profits off of it even if they never go to the NFL. I know former college players that didn't go to the show that make really good money and still made their way off their degree and the brand they created with their fame in college.

It's not like they are used and spit out and left as bums on the street corner.

 

[socaljim242]

And those are great perks for the risks you take playing a game they all love.

They make profits off of it even if they never go to the NFL. I know former college players that didn't go to the show that make really good money and still made their way off their degree and the brand they created with their fame in college.

It's not like they are used and spit out and left as bums on the street corner.

You know some. There's hundreds every couple years. They all have brands?
Crumbs while the ADs the coaches are living on the waterfront

 

[WizardHawk]

Give me a break. Didn't they just hire Jeff Tedford as a consultant? You think they are paying him 30K? was he there last year? How did they afford him? What sports team got cut to pay him? Get out of here with they don't have the money. One phone call to a booster and they get money. They wont make the baseball team walk to games if they gave small percentage to the football team. You know, the ones who make it all possible.

You have no concept of investment. None.

You have to spend money to make money. If you don't spend you end up as bottom feeders and don't bring in the money it takes to support the rest of your department.

Now you don't have to spend as much as Oregon did on frivolous extras and extravagant facilities, but you must spend to attract the kids that bring in the victories that park butts in seats and bring in merchandise dollars. It's really not that hard to understand man.

 

[socaljim242]

You have no concept of investment. None.

You have to spend money to make money. If you don't spend you end up as bottom feeders and don't bring in the money it takes to support the rest of your department.

Now you don't have to spend as much as Oregon did on frivolous extras and extravagant facilities, but you must spend to attract the kids that bring in the victories that park butts in seats and bring in merchandise dollars. It's really not that hard to understand man.

And whos providing this money? The football program.

 

[WizardHawk]

You know some. There's hundreds every couple years. They all have brands?

No name kids that didn't get play time still tell prospective employers they played college ball and it still helps them get a foot in the door. The degree they earned that they otherwise wouldn't have had access to opens doors and gives them more pay than had they only had a high school diploma.

The kids on the bench are taking far less risks. Sure, they can get injured in practice, but they aren't taking the big time live hits and weren't ever going to the NFL anyway so they aren't risking a loss of income in that regard. They end up with a degree and the cool factor of saying they played college ball. Both give them opportunities they otherwise wouldn't have had.

 

[WizardHawk]

And whos providing this money? The football program.

I'm beating my head against a very dense brick wall aren't I.

If you don't invest the money you can't earn any.

Where did UW come up with the money to renovate Husky Stadium? Mostly donations and outside investments and public money loans. They worked hard to get that money over several years. It's not like they simply took cash out of their pockets and paid a few hundred millions for that project.

You just don't get it and I can see you really don't want to get it. We are going to have to agree to leave it there.

 

[WizardHawk]

A few of your questions are answered here:

Husky Stadium Renovation: Making the Case for Public Funding

It wasn't an easy road to getting that renovation done. It took a crap load of donations and public money to get it to happen. Look deeper into where all that money goes. There simply aren't fat stacks of cash lying around like you somehow believe. It doesn't exist.

 

[WizardHawk]

This one says they raised $50m in private donations and took out a 30 year loan for $200m of public money.

New Husky Stadium: on time, on budget

If they have piles of cash lying around, why pay interest and take out a loan?

There aren't stacks of cash. That's why.

P.S. they also sold naming rights to Alaska Airlines and that helped to pay off some of that cost.

 

[socaljim242]

I'm beating my head against a very dense brick wall aren't I.

If you don't invest the money you can't earn any.

Where did UW come up with the money to renovate Husky Stadium? Mostly donations and outside investments. They worked hard to get that money over several years. It's not like they simply took cash out of their pockets and paid a few hundred millions for that project.

You just don't get it and I can see you really don't want to get it. We are going to have to agree to leave it there.

I get it. Without the money football brings in the athletic dept is fucked. You think every penny needs to be spent on everything and everyone else including the millions paid to coaching staffs , providing everything for other sports, the salaries of the AD the huge salaries at the NCAA the mega money made by everyone associated with college football but the ones who you spend tons of money trying to get to play for you who have a 2.8 high school gpa. Well sorry but you get exactly what the music scholarship student gets and he can earn money on the side but you can't. But hey when you get that degree don't worry that it's meaningless because you spent your time training for football we can get you a job at an alumi company. He actually was a real student and built something.

 

[socaljim242]

I'd walk out of a school if they told me the goal was to get me a degree and with that someone who went there and actually accomplished something would hire me instead of we will teach you will learn and you will be something on your own. But somehow that sounds like some thing good to you.

 

[WizardHawk]

I'd walk out of a school if they told me the goal was to get me a degree and with that someone who went there and actually accomplished something would hire me instead of we will teach you will learn and you will be something on your own. But somehow that sounds like some thing good to you.

You brought up that some kids really don't belong in school, not me. Now you want to make it a blanket statement that no football players actually earn their degree and are qualified off their hard work. That's not what was said at all.

For those kids that really didn't earn a degree on merit, they end up with a better chance at earning potential based off that degree and their time in college football. They got something out of it.

Most of the kids in football are smart enough to earn a degree and actually worked at it. It's not the exception. And those kids end up with an entirely free ride. No student debt. They have a degree and no burden of paying off loans like most non scholarship kids do. AND they have an extra foot in the door because they played college ball.

Then there's the few that make it to the NFL and their windfall earnings.

 

[wazzu31]

No name kids that didn't get play time still tell prospective employers they played college ball and it still helps them get a foot in the door. The degree they earned that they otherwise wouldn't have had access to opens doors and gives them more pay than had they only had a high school diploma.

The kids on the bench are taking far less risks. Sure, they can get injured in practice, but they aren't taking the big time live hits and weren't ever going to the NFL anyway so they aren't risking a loss of income in that regard. They end up with a degree and the cool factor of saying they played college ball. Both give them opportunities they otherwise wouldn't have had.

A 4 year degree and saying you played football instantly bumps you up in line for interviews or if you have a brain you network in college and athletes are able to meet more people to network into jobs after school.

Of course it's not a completely fair system but no system is fair 100% to every person involved.

 

[Olyduck]

That made me think how much do the schools supply vs how much does the golfer pay for themselves in terms of shoes, clubs, bags, balls?

same with other sports like Tennis. rackets can be a couple hundred dollars each I always had 2 when I played but one was my brothers until I could buy a second. plus bag and stuff. do they pay out of pocket or do they give them part of the scholarship money to buy things?

 

[socaljim242]

You brought up that some kids really don't belong in school, not me. Now you want to make it a blanket statement that no football players actually earn their degree and are qualified off their hard work. That's not what was said at all.

For those kids that really didn't earn a degree on merit, they end up with a better chance at earning potential based off that degree and their time in college football. They got something out of it.

Most of the kids in football are smart enough to earn a degree and actually worked at it. It's not the exception. And those kids end up with an entirely free ride. No student debt. They have a degree and no burden of paying off loans like most non scholarship kids do. AND they have an extra foot in the door because they played college ball.

Then there's the few that make it to the NFL and their windfall earnings.

Again. Everything you say can be said about players from all the sports that dont bring in a dime. These players participate in a sport that everyone is cashing in on. Coaches and administrators in yachts and living like movie stars and the NCAA people making bank, networks spending and getting billions. But these athletes are being told they are amateurs.
The graduation rate minus the ones who really didn't earn the degree but showed up so they got passed and you have way less players who were able to get something out of college. More typical is the kid who never had the grades never had the tools but was at practice when the regular kids who did have the grade had to spend time studying and somehow he got a degree. And you're thought is. He can work for someone who did study did make something and that's enough and he should be happy because I didn't get that opportunity. But what that kid had that you didn't have is talent in a sport that people pay a lot of money to see. And they reward that talent with the same thing some guy on the rowing team gets.And it's just my opinion. I know you disagree.

 

[socaljim242]

same with other sports like Tennis. rackets can be a couple hundred dollars each I always had 2 when I played but one was my brothers until I could buy a second. plus bag and stuff. do they pay out of pocket or do they give them part of the scholarship money to buy things?

I know some sports give out partial scholarships so i'm sure some things you gotta get yourself. My sons been getting looked at for water polo and it's not that expensive as far as equipment goes

 

[Olyduck]

I know some sports give out partial scholarships so i'm sure some things you gotta get yourself. My sons been getting looked at for water polo and it's not that expensive as far as equipment goes

speedo and a cap but I bet those are provided so they all match and have school logo and or number

 

[socaljim242]

speedo and a cap but I bet those are provided so they all match and have school logo and or number

The most expensive thing is that long jacket they wear when its chilly and they are out of the game/match. I had to buy him two of these in High school. Those things are crazy expensive

 

[Not Neutral]

Football players are not employees and they never have (openly) been paid and should not be. Other benefits should not exceed those received by all other students. Period. Leaving school without debt from college expenses is a huge financial benefit that the FB players would be waiting tables or washing dishes to cover if not involved in football. Let CFB remain as an amateur sport and the unpaid minor leagues for the NFL.