The Official Kirk Cousins post MNF game thread .

[Stymietee]

We are talking about the same MAtt Cassell right?? 35 year old, 58.9% completion ratio been through seven teams Matt Cassell?? This is the guy you would tab to not only equal, but be better than Cousins??

And Im the starving man eating a shit sandwich??

Yup, one and the same!! Kirk had worse numbers than that before Gruden arrived. So yeah I can see Casell being competent in this offense. Know what is funny? using that same logic, many of you have touted the standing that Colt McCoy is a competent back-up, and Casell is far better than he. That's problematic from a shit eating sammich, poisoned weed perspective.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yup, one and the same!! Kirk had worse numbers than that before Gruden arrived. So yeah I can see Casell being competent in this offense. Know what is funny? using that same logic, many of you have touted the standing that Colt McCoy is a competent back-up, and Casell is far better than he. That's problematic from a shit eating sammich, poisoned weed perspective.

For the record i have never said Colt is a competent backup. Because to me the backup SHOULD be a guy you felt comfortable with if the starter went down. The last competent backup we had is now our starter. In now way shape or form would I ever want Cassell on this roster. He was over hyped because he played under Darth Hoody, and was exposed when he was beaten out by Wilson... nuff said.

 

[Stymietee]

For the record i have never said Colt is a competent backup. Because to me the backup SHOULD be a guy you felt comfortable with if the starter went down. The last competent backup we had is now our starter. In now way shape or form would I ever want Cassell on this roster. He was over hyped because he played under Darth Hoody, and was exposed when he was beaten out by Wilson... nuff said.

That's the crux of the issue isn't it? You OK'ers (Only Kirk) are blinded by what's truly a very good, competent QB. I know that it's been a very long time and appreciate the love affair, but I never mix emotion with evaluation when it comes to football. Kirk is certainly NOT the ONLY QB who can be as competent as he has been in this offense. I know how difficult it is coming to terms with that truism , but, if, as you yourself says comes to pass (Kirk leaving) some of ya'll better get used to it, damned quick.

By the way, if this team goes back towards dysfunction (No Colt) if or when Kirk leaves, and Gruden stays, offense intact remind me and I'll pronounce how very wrong I was in the largest boldest fonts possible.

If on the other hand, this offense keeps on ticking at current levels or perish the thought, it gets better with a new guy, (not Colt) you (and others) must sing my praises in the same size fonts. Deal??

 

[Sharkinva]

That's the crux of the issue isn't it? You OK'ers (Only Kirk) are blinded by what's truly a very good, competent QB. I know that it's been a very long time and appreciate the love affair, but I never mix emotion with evaluation when it comes to football. Kirk is certainly NOT the ONLY QB who can be as competent as he has been in this offense. I know how difficult it is coming to terms with that truism , but, if, as you yourself says comes to pass (Kirk leaving) some of ya'll better get used to it, damned quick.

By the way, if this team goes back towards dysfunction (No Colt) if or when Kirk leaves, and Gruden stays, offense intact remind me and I'll pronounce how very wrong I was in the largest boldest fonts possible.

If on the other hand, this offense keeps on ticking at current levels or perish the thought, it gets better with a new guy, (not Colt) you (and others) must sing my praises in the same size fonts. Deal??

Two things..

1. Do I think its possible to get better than Kirk?? Sure.

2. Do I think Tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber will pick that guy?? Lets just say I think we got a better chance of Donald trump marrying J-lo next week.

 

[Stymietee]

Two things..

1. Do I think its possible to get better than Kirk?? Sure.

2. Do I think Tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber will pick that guy?? Lets just say I think we got a better chance of Donald trump marrying J-lo next week.

Yeah, I got that, this was the whole reason for creating this thread in the first place. Basically, Kirk is unsigned and not likely to be signed. That's because after the Monday night game, can you honestly say that you cannot picture Dan Snyder in his box, pointing towards that field at Carson Wentz and shouting....."Bruce, I want one of those?"

SN: My mistake in creating the thread, was in giving the benefit of doubt to other posters with respect to their ability to read, and understand, a more sophisticated thread than others I've introduced. Apologies to all, I'll not make that mistake again. (is that sideways?)

 

[j_y19]

Ta

Fuck maybe this helps:

fa·cil·i·ta·tor
[fəˈsiləˌtādər]
NOUN
facilitators (plural noun)

1. a person or thing that makes an action or process easy or easier:
   "a true educator acts as a facilitator of learning" ·
   [more]
   "a program run by trained facilitators"

im·pe·tus
[ˈimpədəs]
momentum · propulsion · impulsion · motive force · driving force · drive · thrust · energy · force · power · push · strength

• the force that makes something happen or happen more quickly:
  "the crisis of the 1860s provided the original impetus for the settlements"
  synonyms: motivation · stimulus · incitement · incentive · inducement · inspiration · encouragement · boost · fillip · springboard · a shot in the arm

Thanks for clearing that up! So KC must be an impetus because he is clearly driving this offense. Don't think so? Put Colt McCoy in for a few games and see how we do. But like all top QBs, is is also a facilitator.

 

[j_y19]

That's the crux of the issue isn't it? You OK'ers (Only Kirk) are blinded by what's truly a very good, competent QB. I know that it's been a very long time and appreciate the love affair, but I never mix emotion with evaluation when it comes to football. Kirk is certainly NOT the ONLY QB who can be as competent as he has been in this offense. I know how difficult it is coming to terms with that truism , but, if, as you yourself says comes to pass (Kirk leaving) some of ya'll better get used to it, damned quick.

By the way, if this team goes back towards dysfunction (No Colt) if or when Kirk leaves, and Gruden stays, offense intact remind me and I'll pronounce how very wrong I was in the largest boldest fonts possible.

If on the other hand, this offense keeps on ticking at current levels or perish the thought, it gets better with a new guy, (not Colt) you (and others) must sing my praises in the same size fonts. Deal??

OK Sty. Based on your clear feelings on KC, I go back the the question I posed to you about 50 posts ago that you didn't really answer. Seeing as you don't see KC as anything special, how is it a screwed up situation if Dan and Bruce don't re-sign KC to a deal in the Stafford range as that is what it will take? Based on what you seem to believe, I would think you would support Bruce and Dan in letting KC walk. I know if I felt that way about KC, I sure as hell wouldn't want the team to commit $100+M and 5-7 years on a QB that is just another guy. So my question is simple. Assuming KC gets no better and the way he plays today is all we will ever get. DO you support the team signing KC to a long term deal like the Stafford deal or not?

 

[Stymietee]

OK Sty. Based on your clear feelings on KC, I go back the the question I posed to you about 50 posts ago that you didn't really answer. Seeing as you don't see KC as anything special, how is it a screwed up situation if Dan and Bruce don't re-sign KC to a deal in the Stafford range as that is what it will take? Based on what you seem to believe, I would think you would support Bruce and Dan in letting KC walk. I know if I felt that way about KC, I sure as hell wouldn't want the team to commit $100+M and 5-7 years on a QB that is just another guy. So my question is simple. Assuming KC gets no better and the way he plays today is all we will ever get. DO you support the team signing KC to a long term deal like the Stafford deal or not?

I honesty, and truly, don't give a damn if Dan Snyder offers Kirk half ownership of the organization, period, full stop!! I've stated this multiple times.

BTW: it's Ok if you see my designation of Kirk a "pretty good QB" as nothing special. Let us remember that those are your words and not mine.

In as much as Bruce and Dan goes, to me they have long passed the screwed up moments relating to Cousins. I have resigned myself to the realization that barring a significant change of minds, Cousins is gone! I wanted them to resign him, but that was way back in 2015-2016 where value for dollar was more closely matched. If now, he walks, then he walks because they have blown at least 3 opportunities to draft, prepare and make ready his successor. If he doesn't walk, I still say that they need to draft a QB in the 3rd round or higher. This puts the team in great position to upgrade (my constant mantra) and be able to offer that "pretty good QB" for future picks. Removes a lot of the doubt about the new guy and let's not forget about that 5th year option. We would have plenty of time to determine if the new guy will be ...well...the new guy.

Someone asked, if there were posters here that believed that they could replace Bruce Allen. My answer was and remains.....Absolutely!!

 

[j_y19]

I honesty, and truly, don't give a damn if Dan Snyder offers Kirk half ownership of the organization, period, full stop!! I've stated this multiple times.

BTW: it's Ok if you see my designation of Kirk a "pretty good QB" as nothing special. Let us remember that those are your words and not mine.

In as much as Bruce and Dan goes, to me they have long passed the screwed up moments relating to Cousins. I have resigned myself to the realization that barring a significant change of minds, Cousins is gone! I wanted them to resign him, but that was way back in 2015-2016 where value for dollar was more closely matched. If now, he walks, then he walks because they have blown at least 3 opportunities to draft, prepare and make ready his successor. If he doesn't walk, I still say that they need to draft a QB in the 3rd round or higher. This puts the team in a great position tp upgrade (my constant mantra) and be able to offer that "pretty good QB" for future picks.

Someone asked, if there were posters here that believed that they could replace Bruce Allen. My answer was and remains.....Absolutely!!

BTW: it's Ok if you see my designation of Kirk a "pretty good QB" as nothing special. Let us remember that those are your words and not mine.
Fair enough. SO what are your words to describe him? I don't want to put words in your mouth.

So I still can't figure out if you support the re-signing (and long term commitment) to KC or not after this season. I get that we should always be in upgrade mode at every position (that's not rocket science), but if they do sign KC to a huge deal to keep him, you better believe they are making a long term commitment to him and will not be spending significant resources to look for his replacement for a few years.

I completely agree that the FO hosed this thing up starting a few years ago and has only made it worse.

 

[Stymietee]

BTW: it's Ok if you see my designation of Kirk a "pretty good QB" as nothing special. Let us remember that those are your words and not mine.
Fair enough. SO what are your words to describe him? I don't want to put words in your mouth.

So I still can't figure out if you support the re-signing (and long term commitment) to KC or not after this season. I get that we should always be in upgrade mode at every position (that's not rocket science), but if they do sign KC to a huge deal to keep him, you better believe they are making a long term commitment to him and will not be spending significant resources to look for his replacement for a few years.

I completely agree that the FO hosed this thing up starting a few years ago and has only made it worse.

I thought that was clear....Kirk is a pretty good QB.

Honestly, I don't give a damn, if they resign him or not. Any long term commitment that someone wants to attach to a football player is a mirage, some figment of the imagination or a one way loyalty test. Here's why, let's say that Kirk resigns for a jillion bucks, plays another year at his current level, the team drafts a guy who they are convinced that with a very little time he is Rogers, Brady or even Wentz like. Then comes the Cleveland Browns or some other team and offers twice as much as this team did to get Griffin. How long do you think it would be before Kirk is sent packing? Ready? Go....5.....4....3....2......Bye Kirk! Keep in mind that before Kirk it was unheard of to sign a player to two consecutive FT's. This team is facing the real possibility of doing that once again. (Although I don't believe it will work this time)

Kirk is 29 years old (August 1988) and his chances of getting a LTD are dwindling with each passing season. So let me ask you....

1. What's a LTD in years?

2. Would you sign a 30 year old QB to a LTD based on the years that you've supplied in question #1?

3. If you were that 29 year old QB and really, really, wanted to secure your children's, children's children future with a LTD, would you honestly sign another one year deal when you know that you can get that LTD elsewhere?

 

[j_y19]

I thought that was clear....Kirk is a pretty good QB.

Honestly, I don't give a damn, if they resign him or not. Any long term commitment that someone wants to attach to a football player is a mirage, some figment of the imagination or a one way loyalty test. Here's why, let's say that Kirk resigns for a jillion bucks, plays another year at his current level, the team drafts a guy who they are convinced that with a very little time he is Rogers, Brady or even Wentz like. Then comes the Cleveland Browns or some other team and offers twice as much as this team did to get Griffin. How long do you think it would be before Kirk is sent packing? Ready? Go....5.....4....3....2......Bye Kirk! Keep in mind that before Kirk it was unheard of to sign a player to two consecutive FT's. This team is facing the real possibility of doing that once again. (Although I don't believe it will work this time)

Kirk is 29 years old (August 1988) and his chances of getting a LTD are dwindling with each passing season. So let me ask you....

1. What's a LTD in years?

2. Would you sign a 30 year old QB to a LTD based on the years that you've supplied in question #1?

3. If you were that 29 year old QB and really, really, wanted to secure your children's, children's children future with a LTD, would you honestly sign another one year deal when you know that you can get that LTD elsewhere?

1. A LTD for KC will be in the 5 to 7 year range with 3-4 years guaranteed. That will happen with whomever he signs with.

2. Yes, I would, if I believed that he is the best QB we will have access to during those committed years (which I do). This is not homerism or KC infatuation, but realism.

3. No, I would not. KC will get a long term deal this off season unless our resident idiot (Allen) franchise tags him one last time. KC s children’s future is already secured, however.

 

[Stymietee]

1. A LTD for KC will be in the 5 to 7 year range with 3-4 years guaranteed. That will happen with whomever he signs with.

2. Yes, I would, if I believed that he is the best QB we will have access to during those committed years (which I do). This is not homerism or KC infatuation, but realism.

3. No, I would not. KC will get a long term deal this off season unless our resident idiot (Allen) franchise tags him one last time. KC s children’s future is already secured, however.

1. This is why you draft his replacement...that 3-4 year guarantee gives you little time to wait and that replacement would still be on his rookie contract, and KC would still have some trade value.

2. This is where we clearly differ. I get it that some people, like my brother are natural pessimist. I don't know you at all and that might not apply to you, but thinking that under any circumstance that you can not do better is either that or comes from a place where disappointment exists. That's realism!!

BTW: I already know that we can get a player who's a better fit in this offense that Kirk. ( for those who want to object, we've been there done that, don't waste your time)

3. Exactly, too many people are NOT taking into account Kirk's POV. He's stated on numerous occasions that he wants a LTD. Think he's going to be impressed with another tag attempt? (rhetorical) If I'm Kirk and they want to tag me again, I'd refuse to sign it!

Did you actually cut off Kirk's great grandchildren? I know that his children's future are already taken care of, that's not the group that I was referring to.

 

[j_y19]

1. This is why you draft his replacement...that 3-4 year guarantee gives you little time to wait and that replacement would still be on his rookie contract, and KC would still have some trade value.

2. This is where we clearly differ. I get it that some people, like my brother are natural pessimist. I don't know you at all and that might not apply to you, but thinking that under any circumstance that you can not do better is either that or comes from a place where disappointment exists. That's realism!!

BTW: I already know that we can get a player who's a better fit in this offense that Kirk. ( for those who want to object, we've been there done that, don't waste your time)

3. Exactly, too many people are NOT taking into account Kirk's POV. He's stated on numerous occasions that he wants a LTD. Think he's going to be impressed with another tag attempt? (rhetorical) If I'm Kirk and they want to tag me again, I'd refuse to sign it!

Did you actually cut off Kirk's great grandchildren? I know that his children's future are already taken care of, that's not the group that I was referring to.

I have never said we cannot do better than KC. What my position is is that it is very unlikely to occur in the next few years. The best predictor of the future is the past. More specifically, our past. With this front office. You are telling me that you are comfortable with Bruce Allen drafting your replacement for KC (or signing a FA)? That is not realism, its dreamworld.

And your candidate that we can get to replace his has the same issues that KC has with Bruce and Dan. Not withstanding that I don't believe he can even hold KC's jockstrap, he also is not sexy enough for Dan. No way they bring in a guy like that to be the face of Dan's franchise. Again, you are not factoring into who will be making these decisions and what their criteria are. After all, this whole thread was started based on the prediction of Shark that the FO will fuck this up. And his primary premise is that KC just doesn't give Dan and Bruce that arm candy they crave.

 

[Yo Tee]

@Terry Rode we have had exactly two 8-9 win seasons with cousins. Before that we were a 3-4 win team. This is his 3rd season as a starter. Do you normally bail on a project after two cycles and say.. well screw it time to start over?? Again I could see if we were 8-9 win team and the QB was getting worse instead of better. BUt every time some one says Kirk needs to improve.. he does. At what point do you simply say, yes we screwed up not signing him on the cheap when we could have??

Again unless its personal, and you just dont like the guy for some reason (HInt I think this is ultimately why we actually WONT be resigning Cousins)

There's no doubt he's improved the Redskins, I'm not saying that. My question to you is how many 1-game over .500 seasons will it take for someone to say, ya know, maybe this is the best we're gonna get from Kirk Cousins? You can replace personnel around you all you want but if there are no changes, time to look at the position you haven't changed yet. Hence why I think the Lions are fucking stupid for giving Stafford all that money.

 

[Yo Tee]

See Robert Griffin. That worked well.

Say what you want about RG3, but he gave the Redskins their first winning record since 2007 and your first division title since 1999. But like I said, he hit the fan after that.

 

[Stymietee]

I have never said we cannot do better than KC. What my position is is that it is very unlikely to occur in the next few years. The best predictor of the future is the past. More specifically, our past. With this front office. You are telling me that you are comfortable with Bruce Allen drafting your replacement for KC (or signing a FA)? That is not realism, its dreamworld.

And your candidate that we can get to replace his has the same issues that KC has with Bruce and Dan. Not withstanding that I don't believe he can even hold KC's jockstrap, he also is not sexy enough for Dan. No way they bring in a guy like that to be the face of Dan's franchise. Again, you are not factoring into who will be making these decisions and what their criteria are. After all, this whole thread was started based on the prediction of Shark that the FO will fuck this up. And his primary premise is that KC just doesn't give Dan and Bruce that arm candy they crave.

See, that's the thing, I believe that Bruce is a lazy, lying, sack of shit, who will annually hire a GM just to claim his ideas as his own. That GM will set the big board and Bruce will follow it to a tee. So yeah (wink wink) Bruce will draft that guy. I'm willing to bet that in a couple of years that hiring will become an annual hot topic speculation on this site,

 

[Stymietee]

There's no doubt he's improved the Redskins, I'm not saying that. My question to you is how many 1-game over .500 seasons will it take for someone to say, ya know, maybe this is the best we're gonna get from Kirk Cousins? You can replace personnel around you all you want but if there are no changes, time to look at the position you haven't changed yet. Hence why I think the Lions are fucking stupid for giving Stafford all that money.

I agree that there's absolutely no doubt that he's improved the team. I would not trade where we were before him (after the one year Griffin thing) with where we are now. That doesn't mean that we don't try to improve at the position given what's been done in Dallas and Philly. I would love to know how much better people think Kirk can be. To me he'll put up numbers, this offense practically guarantees it. but the ONLY numbers that I'm interested in are wins. Wins in the regular season, wins in the playoffs and certainly wins in the SB.

I'm giving this experiment every chance to work but pardon the hell out of my skepticism. As the rules continue to change having a QB who's able to deliver TD for TD against the opponent becomes vitally important. Kirk just is not that right now, but if my fellow posters believe that he will be able to change the type of player that he is, then can and will get better at doing this, then like I said, I'll wait.

 

[Yo Tee]

the ONLY numbers that I'm interested in are wins. Wins in the regular season, wins in the playoffs and certainly wins in the SB.

EXACTLY. 8-9 wins ain't gonna get you anywhere. I know he's only been the starter for going on his 3rd year but he's 22-24-1 career. When he was filling in for RG3, he was 2-7. He's not this savior that some of the Redskins fans on here are making him out to be. What has his accuracy gotten the team? What has his near 5,000 yard season gotten the team? What has his career 95.2 QBR gotten the team? 22 wins in 6 years? He's a .500 QB at best. Can't really expect much more from the guy. Just to put it in more perspective, the dude has more fumbles than wins in his career.

 

[Stymietee]

EXACTLY. 8-9 wins ain't gonna get you anywhere. I know he's only been the starter for going on his 3rd year but he's 22-24-1 career. When he was filling in for RG3, he was 2-7. He's not this savior that some of the Redskins fans on here are making him out to be. What has his accuracy gotten the team? What has his near 5,000 yard season gotten the team? What has his career 95.2 QBR gotten the team? 22 wins in 6 years? He's a .500 QB at best. Can't really expect much more from the guy. Just to put it in more perspective, the dude has more fumbles than wins in his career.

I can't argue with any of this but, since you did ask the questions that you did, my answers to them is.......

 

[Yo Tee]

I can't argue with any of this but, since you did ask the questions that you did, my answers to them is.......

I'll tell you where Cousins is a great QB. If you have him on your fantasy team. Great fantasy QB right there.