The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract

[Omar 382]

Bill James has a book where he names the greatest player at every position. I'll bold the positions I agree with
C- Yogi Berra
1B-Lou Gherig
2B- Joe Morgan
3B- Mike Schmidt
SS- Honus Wagner
LF- Ted Williams
CF- Willie Mays
RF- Babe Ruth
P- Walter Johnson

Interesting topic IMO. He has the top 100 players listed at every position. Other notable players who spent significant time with the Phillies besides Schmidt are Stan Lopata (92 at catcher), Dick Allen (15 at first base), John Kruk (72 at first base), Nap Lajoie (6 at second base), Ted Sizemore (85 at second base), Ed Delahanty (12 at left field), Greg Luzinski (35 at left field),Del Ennis (43 at left field), Lonnie Smith (65 at left field), Richie Ashburn (16 at center field), Von Hayes (77 at right field), Grover Cleveland Alexander (3 at pitcher), Steve Carlton (15 at pitcher), Robin Roberts (16 at pitcher), Jim Bunning (30 at pitcher), Jim Kaat (65 at pitcher).

Note that the book came out in 2000, so Rollins, Utley, Burrell, Howard, and maybe even Lee would appear on the list in some capacity.

 

[Omar 382]

Yeah, great feedback everyone. Thanks

 

[jvett77]

It's odd that Stan Lopata (92 at catcher) would be mentioned. In 13 years he hit 254, 661 lifetime hits, 116 HRs 397 RBI, and.351 OBP. Without doing any research, it would seem like 100 other catchers might be a better choice.

 

[navamind]

Lopata did have a 114 wRC+ (a very similar stat to OPS+), which ranks 54th among catchers all-time. Darren Daulton also had a 114 wRC+, and rates a little higher than guys like Bill Freehan and Darrell Porter (113).

 

[jvett77]

Lopata did have a 114 wRC+ (a very similar stat to OPS+), which ranks 54th among catchers all-time. Darren Daulton also had a 114 wRC+, and rates a little higher than guys like Bill Freehan and Darrell Porter (113).

Good point. Lopata ranks #201 in hits. However, his .351 OBP ranks 13th all time. The sortable OBP ranking leaves him out possibly because he played less than 1,000 games. So he seems more worthwhile than I thought. In looking at catchers, I found that only 8 have 2,000 or more hits.

 

[Cedrique]

It's hard to believe Dick Allen isn't in the Hall of Fame with his stats. Did he even come close to making it? I guess he should have stayed in the league as a dh or something and racked up some more hits and RBIs. He was a lot better than Tony Perez, who is in the hall.

 

[Retroram52]

May be the selection into a Hall of Fame has more components that contribute to a final decision than just stats Cedrique.

 

[jvett77]

May be the selection into a Hall of Fame has more components that contribute to a final decision than just stats Cedrique.

Allen exceeds some of the average Hall of Fame batting statistics called Black Ink and Gray Ink stats where a player led the league or appeared in the top 10 in certain hitting categories. He missed in the WAR stat by 10 points and Hall of Fame Standards by 11 points. There's probably a bunch of players like him with great stats but......

Check near the bottom of the page: Dick Allen Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[northeastphillyguy]

It's hard to believe Dick Allen isn't in the Hall of Fame with his stats. Did he even come close to making it? I guess he should have stayed in the league as a dh or something and racked up some more hits and RBIs. He was a lot better than Tony Perez, who is in the hall.

Allen never received more than 19 percent of the votes required. He was disliked by sports writers because of his attitude towards them. He has amazing stats that should at least make him border line for the hall. His son has a campaign to get him elected in his final year of eligibility But most say that it won't happen.

 

[Cedrique]

May be the selection into a Hall of Fame has more components that contribute to a final decision than just stats Cedrique.

Not may be, definitely. It is voted on by sports writers and I don't think they are really given a criteria as to what to base their decision on. (except of course "you can't vote for Pete Rose"

 

[molsaniceman]

Not may be, definitely. It is voted on by sports writers and I don't think they are really given a criteria as to what to base their decision on. (except of course "you can't vote for Pete Rose"

From the BBWAA's website:

Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

So its really nothing specific but more about opinions

 

[Retroram52]

I sort of figured that politics had a great deal to do with it.

 

[jvett77]

Bill James has a book where he names the greatest player at every position. I'll bold the positions I agree with
C- Yogi Berra
1B-Lou Gherig
2B- Joe Morgan
3B- Mike Schmidt
SS- Honus Wagner
LF- Ted Williams
CF- Willie Mays
RF- Babe Ruth

I had some time on my hands. My starting five (three RH and two LH) for this lineup is: (modern, only 1950s onward)

Spahn L 363-245 3.09 ERA
Maddux R 355-227 3.16 ERA
Clemens R 354-184 3.12 ERA
Seaver R 311-205 2.86 ERA
Marichal L 243-142 2.89 ERA

Whitey Ford L 236-106 2.75 is my long reliever. lol. What a team! Would they lose any games?

 

[Omar 382]

Not may be, definitely. It is voted on by sports writers and I don't think they are really given a criteria as to what to base their decision on. (except of course "you can't vote for Pete Rose"

May be so, still, the voters usually get it right.

 

[Omar 382]

Just so everyone knows, James has Perez ranked two places higher at 13, but I agree that Allen was the better player. He had way more offensive production in way less time.

Richie Allen Batting and Baserunning Combined:452.6 in 7,314 PA
Tony Perez Batting and Baserunning Combined: 263 in 10,861 PA

It's actually not even close. I realize Perez was a better defender, but we're talking about first base for the most part. It's not like we're comparing two catchers or center fielders.

 

[Hbomb]

I had some time on my hands. My starting five (three RH and two LH) for this lineup is: (modern, only 1950s onward)

Spahn L 363-245 3.09 ERA
Maddux R 355-227 3.16 ERA
Clemens R 354-184 3.12 ERA
Seaver R 311-205 2.86 ERA
Marichal L 243-142 2.89 ERA

Whitey Ford L 236-106 2.75 is my long reliever. lol. What a team! Would they lose any games?

Marichal was right handed. Use Koufax instead.

 

[Omar 382]

Also, found this funny. James had this to say about Belle

"Let's try to find ten good things to say about Albert Belle:
10. So far as we know, he's never tried to kill anyone.
9. He is handsome, and built like a God.
8. He played every game.
7. He has never appeared on the Jerry Springer show.
6. He was an underrated base runner who was rarely caught stealing.
5. He hasn't been arrested in several years.
4. He is very bright.
3. He works hard.
2. He has never spoken favorably of Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein, or any other foreign madman.
1. The man could hit."

 

[jvett77]

Marichal was right handed. Use Koufax instead.

You are correct. Koufax is a great choice.

 

[Cedrique]

Marichal was right handed. Use Koufax instead.

I never really looked at Koufax's stats before. Pretty interesting. He was before my time so I don't know why he retired, but he has to be one of the only Hall of Famers that were done by age 30. I almost think that if he had had an injury and come back and been mediocre until he was 37 or something he might not have made the hall. I guess he used George Costanza's idea about going out on a high note.
Imagine if Ryan Howard had just quit at age 28 and become a missionary or something. He would have been legendary. Of course he would have missed out on 130 million bucks or something.

 

[Omar 382]

I never really looked at Koufax's stats before. Pretty interesting. He was before my time so I don't know why he retired, but he has to be one of the only Hall of Famers that were done by age 30. I almost think that if he had had an injury and come back and been mediocre until he was 37 or something he might not have made the hall. I guess he used George Costanza's idea about going out on a high note.
Imagine if Ryan Howard had just quit at age 28 and become a missionary or something. He would have been legendary. Of course he would have missed out on 130 million bucks or something.

Good thinking sparky. Koufax was faced with the decision of retiring or continuing to pitch and possibly be forced to get his left arm amputated.

On a side note, Koufax, Roy Campanella, Lou Gherig, and Kirby Puckett should all start a team up in New Jersey called the Camden Cripples. It would bring back the excitement of having a team really close to the Phillies that left when the A's moved to Kansas City and it would put a little heat on the Phillies as they struggled to secure 5th place in the six team National League East.