The Need For Everything (Official Lionstop1 draft report)

[Gulf of Brazil]

I really believe once day two starts, some of those other guys will start coming off the board.

To which is why I wouldn't mind being the team that picks first on opening night of second day of the Draft at #33. There would still be value there for a RB, IMO only, More than likely Gurley would be gone and possibly Gordon but moving from #23 to #33, whether it's 1 or even 2 trade downs, would net you at least a 3rd round pick in some sort of fashion and possibly more depending on the variables.

2015 NFL Draft Trade Value Chart

 

[tpaulus_2]

I think David Johnson in the 3rd would represent the best value for us if he falls that far. He's the next Matt Forte, imo.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I think the media analysts and especially us fans like the idea of 1st round RBs a lot more than GMs do...

once again, I honestly think you have to consider where teams draft, draft slot #, and do those GM's believe player X will be available when their next draft pick comes up. It's a tricky/sticky situation, IMO. It's the old adage, if you snooze, you lose. Teams may very well draft some of these RB's earlier than what many fans or so-called experts believe.

I do see where you're coming from though, TP

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I think David Johnson in the 3rd would represent the best value for us if he falls that far

This is where I think the run on the quality RB's ends and early in that 3rd round. At least those top 10 rb's. My opinion only, probably. It's highly likely that guys like Ajayi, Yeldon, David Johnson, Langford are gone before we pick at #88. It still depends on what RB's were taken in that 1st and 2nd round but for the Lions to wait until late in the 3rd round at #88, I'm not positive at all they'll get the RB that they really wanted.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

just to add onto a possible trade down, that trade value chart has worked to a tee in all trades, within a few miniscule points, except the trades that Oak to Miami and Dallas to SF two years ago. Both of those teams left quite a bit laying on the table.

As last years trades were unfolding, I responded in here to every single trade and how that value chart still was spot on. just so you all are aware, AGAIN, because most of you believe it doesn't retain it's value.

 

[tpaulus_2]

once again, I honestly think you have to consider where teams draft, draft slot #, and do those GM's believe player X will be available when their next draft pick comes up. It's a tricky/sticky situation, IMO. It's the old adage, if you snooze, you lose. Teams may very well draft some of these RB's earlier than what many fans or so-called experts believe.

I do see where you're coming from though, TP

I definitely see where you're coming from, but I think we also have to consider that RB is a very de-valued position in the NFL right now, especially in the early rounds. It takes a special back to get drafted that early any more, and I think Gurley is the only guy who's a damn-near lock to be a "special" back in the NFL, injuries pending.

Like you guys are saying, maybe a GM really likes a guy and tries to grab him before he thinks someone else will, which could create a run on RBs, but I don't see that, personally. I see Gurley going in the 1st, Gordon in the 1st or 2nd, Coleman in the 2nd, and backs four through (roughly) ten going in the late 2nd through the early 5th round.

Imo there's 10 RBs heading into the draft who really seperate themselves as immediate contributors- Gurley, Gordon, Coleman, Da. Johnson, Langford, Ajayi, Abdullah, Du. Johnson, Yeldon, and Javorius Allen, pretty well in that order. I think the drop-off after those ten is pretty rapid. Of course, there's always the "nobody" RB in every draft who lights it up in the NFL after an uninspiring college career, and obviously some of these ten guys will bust out, but that's the way I see the RBs right now...

 

[gvsulaker82]

Good post stop

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I think we also have to consider that RB is a very de-valued position in the NFL right now, especially in the early rounds.

Teams that have needs for a RB aren't going to de-value these rb's, IMO. As a whole for the position, yes, I can see the so-called devaluation to a certain extent.

I think Gurley is the only guy who's a damn-near lock to be a "special" back in the NFL, injuries pending.

Imo there's 10 RBs heading into the draft who really seperate themselves as immediate contributors- Gurley, Gordon, Coleman, Da. Johnson, Langford, Ajayi, Abdullah, Du. Johnson, Yeldon, and Javorius Allen, pretty well in that order. I think the drop-off after those ten is pretty rapid.

I pretty much agree with the vast majority of your statement here. I'm more in the line of thinking that RB's like Abdullah and Duke Johnson will be the devalued rb's more so due to their perceived skill-set as being change of pace rb's (kind of like Reggie but not with his speed). It will depend on what type of RB teams are in need of (i.e. a bell-cow heavy workload, a homerun threat, a shifty quick change of direction rb, etc.) Buck Allen and Ajayi, IMO only, might be somewhat devalued because they don't consistently show the natural, break away home run threat. Yes, both of those RB's have had a few long runs and have shown pass-pro and out of backfield catching but nothing in comparison to Tevin Coleman's un-godly amount of homerun TD's from strictly a running aspect.

not arguing your point in above post. I just see a few minor things differently than you do. I do like your most of thoughts/perspective on this topic though.

 

[tpaulus_2]

There does seem to be some consensus that this draft is deepest at RB and WR, so that may weigh into the debate about taking a RB early vs. waiting till the 3rd, or even later. We'd do pretty well to trade back at #23 and add a 3rd or 4th round pick, imo.

 

[lionstop1]

Good post stop

Thanks

 

[lionstop1]

Teams that have needs for a RB aren't going to de-value these rb's, IMO. As a whole for the position, yes, I can see the so-called devaluation to a certain extent.







I pretty much agree with the vast majority of your statement here. I'm more in the line of thinking that RB's like Abdullah and Duke Johnson will be the devalued rb's more so due to their perceived skill-set as being change of pace rb's (kind of like Reggie but not with his speed). It will depend on what type of RB teams are in need of (i.e. a bell-cow heavy workload, a homerun threat, a shifty quick change of direction rb, etc.) Buck Allen and Ajayi, IMO only, might be somewhat devalued because they don't consistently show the natural, break away home run threat. Yes, both of those RB's have had a few long runs and have shown pass-pro and out of backfield catching but nothing in comparison to Tevin Coleman's un-godly amount of homerun TD's from strictly a running aspect.

not arguing your point in above post. I just see a few minor things differently than you do. I do like your most of thoughts/perspective on this topic though.

We see eye-eye on this topic, Blue.

 

[Old Lion]

just to add onto a possible trade down, that trade value chart has worked to a tee in all trades, within a few miniscule points, except the trades that Oak to Miami and Dallas to SF two years ago. Both of those teams left quite a bit laying on the table.

As last years trades were unfolding, I responded in here to every single trade and how that value chart still was spot on. just so you all are aware, AGAIN, because most of you believe it doesn't retain it's value.

Has the chart been updated for the effect the rookie pay scale has? Are those chart values the same as in 2012 say?

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

We see eye-eye on this topic, Blue.

I don't like being that close to dudes....

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Has the chart been updated for the effect the rookie pay scale has? Are those chart values the same as in 2012 say?

The answer is no to updated to the newer rookie pay scale for 2011.

The chart values are exactly the same as used since the Herschel trade. So yes, they are the same as used in 2012.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Dallas is going to move up to 23 to take Gordon. Ahead of the Carolina and Zona if they don't end up with Peterson. We get their 3rd as our front office (fucking Gandy, I can't believe I said I would hold off til Thursday on bashing, so not right, stupid me, wimps do that I guess, my bad) twists the knife of leverage in JJ's side.

Gordon is perfect for them and we really do need the extra pick. The 7 ft Asian poster losses his shit when Gordon is there and we pass on him.

While I have yet to officially make up my mind and post a draft prediction I see C. Erving as a strong possibility if we went back to 27. The front office doesn't make the same mistake twice after passing on Z. Martin last year. His versatility really opens things up along the line.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

^^^ I could see that scenario playing out, Dr. Evil, as much as I could see both Den and Indy trading up with us. Den is in a last gasp breath while Peyton is more than likely on his last year. If there is a player available that Elway thinks may not be there at #28, for Den, and that player projects as an immediate impact, it could very well happen. Indy, even though they just got Gore, might need that bounce outside RB like Gordon. Yes, I know Indy has Daniel Boom Herron but he isn't Gordon. All three of those teams (Dallas included) are front-runners to be considered as playoff-bound teams. Denver needs a LG and a C. Indy needs a RT and RB. Should a Flowers, Peat, Erving, Gordon, Goldman still be available any of those players could be considered. AZ has some of the same needs as Dallas or Denver or Indy. It's about beating other teams to the line.


all just my thought process

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I do like the Cameron Erving pick, even though I still question some of his in-game flaws, but I also LOVE Ali Marpet's skill-set, versatility, more than Erving. I wouldn't be upset 1 dog gone bit if the selection was Erving.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I'm going to say this much. Be prepared to be Shocked, Stunned and in Awe when pick #23 comes around and the dust has settled. Hopefully, in a positive way. Some posters in here may go off on a tangent because there'll still be some players available, viewed by those particular fans, as ones who could be considered instant impact.

Mayhew has publicly stated, he's aware of his past mistakes and is correcting those.

I'm of belief that Mayhew will do what he hasn't done before in his 6 previous drafts. Gut hunch or whatever. It's the teams needs in conjunction with players that might be available is where this derives from.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

you have to scroll down quite a bit.... buttttt


Todd Gurley Visits Colts
Updated April 16, 2015
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

The disaster of the Trent Richardson trade is still fresh in the minds of Colts fans, but despite that blunder, the Colts are giving consideration to using their 2015 first-round pick on a running back. Indianapolis signed veteran Frank Gore in free agency, but that isn't stopping the Colts from bringing in Georgia running back Todd Gurley on a pre-draft visit, according to sources.

Indianapolis has the 29th-overall pick in the first round, and in order to land Gurley, the Colts will probably have to trade up. Gurley is likely to be chosen in the middle of the first round, so Indianapolis would have to put a big package together in order to land him.

Gurley averaged 7.4 yards per carry in 2014 on his way to 911 yards with nine touchdowns. He also had 12 receptions for 57 yards before tearing his ACL in November against Auburn. The 6-foot-1, 222-pound Gurley is extremely fast, while also being very powerful. For more, check out our Todd Gurley Scouting Report.

 

[gandydancer]

Dallas is going to move up to 23 to take Gordon. Ahead of the Carolina and Zona if they don't end up with Peterson. We get their 3rd as our front office (fucking Gandy, I can't believe I said I would hold off til Thursday on bashing, so not right, stupid me, wimps do that I guess, my bad) twists the knife of leverage in JJ's side.

Gordon is perfect for them and we really do need the extra pick. The 7 ft Asian poster losses his shit when Gordon is there and we pass on him.

While I have yet to officially make up my mind and post a draft prediction I see C. Erving as a strong possibility if we went back to 27. The front office doesn't make the same mistake twice after passing on Z. Martin last year. His versatility really opens things up along the line.

First...I appreciate the show of restrain. I applaud you!

Second... I would love more than anything to be wrong in saying Mayhew will not trade back to get more picks. I just don't see it, as the CLOWNSHOW has never done it.