The NBA was not tougher in the 'old days' the way you think

[We Are Decent]

For sure that is true.

I have to ROFL when people try to put LeBron in that category though.

Yeah he flops and whines. That doesn’t mean he can’t handle physical play. I am sure he would have flopped and whined a lot less in another era.

The dude is a Mack track. He would have been just fine. Maybe even better.

I don't know about better but LeBron is indeed, objectively, one of the best of all time. Drop James in any time period and he'll still be a Top 3 SF of all time. I don't know if he could overcome any playoff series with the 90s Bulls but I can easily see a couple trips to the Finals if he played in the West.

 

[logic]

The last two years were flukes. Last year teams played fewer games and got a long layoff before the short runup to the playoffs. Made for rested players and a pretty healthy end of the season. Conversely, this year they played fewer games, but on a very tight turn around, not allowing for rest and recovery, especailly for guys that went deep into the playoffs. This has caused some injury issues, even with the abreviated season. I think we should throw both of these years out of this disucssion as to what is normal.

Generally, the game has gotten faster and more skilled. Yes, there isn't as much hand checking, and aren't as many hard fouls, but these are not usually where the injuries happen. It's guys blowing out knees and ankles on the hard cuts and going to basket. The top guys would always be the top guys in any era. But ability of the players on the floor of the league has gotten better, todays scrubs are better than the scrubs of earlier eras. This means the overall competition has gotten better that the stars face. Guys are just bigger, stronger, and faster. The stars now have to put more strain on their body to make their moves against anyone on the floor, leading to more injures. Yes, they don't take as many of the hard blows (but they weren't as common as everyone makes them out to be), but every play puts more force on the weak spots, knees and ankles due to increased competition.

 

[Wazmankg]

I'm not buying it.. and apparently to get called for traveling you have to take at least 4 steps now.

 

[msgkings322]

The last two years were flukes. Last year teams played fewer games and got a long layoff before the short runup to the playoffs. Made for rested players and a pretty healthy end of the season. Conversely, this year they played fewer games, but on a very tight turn around, not allowing for rest and recovery, especailly for guys that went deep into the playoffs. This has caused some injury issues, even with the abreviated season. I think we should throw both of these years out of this disucssion as to what is normal.

Generally, the game has gotten faster and more skilled. Yes, there isn't as much hand checking, and aren't as many hard fouls, but these are not usually where the injuries happen. It's guys blowing out knees and ankles on the hard cuts and going to basket. The top guys would always be the top guys in any era. But ability of the players on the floor of the league has gotten better, todays scrubs are better than the scrubs of earlier eras. This means the overall competition has gotten better that the stars face. Guys are just bigger, stronger, and faster. The stars now have to put more strain on their body to make their moves against anyone on the floor, leading to more injures. Yes, they don't take as many of the hard blows (but they weren't as common as everyone makes them out to be), but every play puts more force on the weak spots, knees and ankles due to increased competition.

Bingo. But of course this makes you a giant pussy.

 

[trojanfan12]

Generally, the game has gotten faster and more skilled. Yes, there isn't as much hand checking, and aren't as many hard fouls, but these are not usually where the injuries happen. It's guys blowing out knees and ankles on the hard cuts and going to basket. The top guys would always be the top guys in any era. But ability of the players on the floor of the league has gotten better, todays scrubs are better than the scrubs of earlier eras. This means the overall competition has gotten better that the stars face. Guys are just bigger, stronger, and faster. The stars now have to put more strain on their body to make their moves against anyone on the floor, leading to more injures. Yes, they don't take as many of the hard blows (but they weren't as common as everyone makes them out to be), but every play puts more force on the weak spots, knees and ankles due to increased competition.

Yeah, it basically comes down to what is meant by "tougher".

If you are talking about tougher as in...physical style of play, then things were definitely tougher in the "old days". I mean, the famous play where McHale clotheslined Rambis was a common foul. McHale didn't even get a technical foul for it. In today's game that's a flagrant 2, McHale is ejected and probably faces a suspension and fine. There are no "no layups" rules in todays game as those types of fouls carry a potentially much harsher penalty in today's game.

But, as far as the stress placed on a players body...today's game is tougher. In the "old days", you went home after the game with more bruises, scrapes and scratches...but fewer strains, sprains, pulls and tears. As you point out, there a lot more stress placed on joints and muscles with the harder and sharper cuts that players in today's game are expected to make.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah, it basically comes down to what is meant by "tougher".

If you are talking about tougher as in...physical style of play, then things were definitely tougher in the "old days". I mean, the famous play where McHale clotheslined Rambis was a common foul. McHale didn't even get a technical foul for it. In today's game that's a flagrant 2, McHale is ejected and probably faces a suspension and fine. There are no "no layups" rules in todays game as those types of fouls carry a potentially much harsher penalty in today's game.

But, as far as the stress placed on a players body...today's game is tougher. In the "old days", you went home after the game with more bruises, scrapes and scratches...but fewer strains, sprains, pulls and tears. As you point out, there a lot more stress placed on joints and muscles with the harder and sharper cuts that players in today's game are expected to make.

Get that nuanced understanding shit out of here. You're either a manly man fan of the 80s game or a pussy fan of sissyball like they play today.

 

[shopson67]

totally.

If LeBron had to deal with the hard-fouls Jordan took night in and night out he would spend the majority of the season on the floor rolling around like a secret service agent just snipered him.

its not even close. The physicality of the game in the was so much more. A foul that would be a flagrant 2 now would not even be thought twice of back then.

Let's not cloud what actually happened in that era. Remember the Jordan rules? MJ benefited from quick whistles more often than he took hard contact.

There were harder fouls, and hand-checking was allowed back then. The rating of flagrants and techs were on a completely different scale. Stars still got the start treatment though, especially MJ.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Let's not cloud what actually happened in that era. Remember the Jordan rules? MJ benefited from quick whistles more often than he took hard contact.

There were harder fouls, and hand-checking was allowed back then. The rating of flagrants and techs were on a completely different scale. Stars still got the start treatment though, especially MJ.

dude, back then if you want to the basket and had a layup or two the next time you were hitting the ground. The big men actually played down low instead of on the perimeter half the time and would smack the shit out of you.

Today you can go to the basket over and over and over and over again and nothing will happen- becuase if it does someones looking 20 grand for a flagrant. Back then it was EXPECTEd you would be put on your ass.

 

[trojanfan12]

dude, back then if you want to the basket and had a layup or two the next time you were hitting the ground. The big men actually played down low instead of on the perimeter half the time and would smack the shit out of you.

Today you can go to the basket over and over and over and over again and nothing will happen- becuase if it does someones looking 20 grand for a flagrant. Back then it was EXPECTEd you would be put on your ass.

Yep. The No Layups Rule was a real thing.

 

[BigKen]

As someone actually old enough to have watched basketball in the 80’s and 90’s I can easily say not even close.

Also, just because Lebron is the best guy of his era doesn’t mean he’s the 2nd best guy ever behind Jordan. Plenty of guys from the Jordan era would dominate in the modern era.

I started coaching basketball in 1975. To get certified you had to know the rules and understand them. Coaches in those days "taught" kids the correct way to play the game. In those days, a player was allowed one step forward without the other foot lifting or it was a travel. Placing a hand uder the ball and turning it was called 'palming'. Today LeBron is allowed three stepss and i watch nearly every player in the NBA carry the ball while dribbling. The game has certainly gone from deliberate movement to hyper-speed. In the old days, kids learned to play a disciplined game. Today, they get pissed if their game is called out as incorrect or a 'turnover'. But what can you expect? These players today don't attend school except to play ball and go to collegefor one year and never attend a class. We're not dealing with intellect.

 

[shopson67]

dude, back then if you want to the basket and had a layup or two the next time you were hitting the ground. The big men actually played down low instead of on the perimeter half the time and would smack the shit out of you.

Today you can go to the basket over and over and over and over again and nothing will happen- becuase if it does someones looking 20 grand for a flagrant. Back then it was EXPECTEd you would be put on your ass.

I remember just as well as you do. However, as more time passes, those memories get exaggerated. Every layup attempt wasn't a take down; teams would foul out in the first half.

 

[shopson67]

I started coaching basketball in 1975. To get certified you had to know the rules and understand them. Coaches in those days "taught" kids the correct way to play the game. In those days, a player was allowed one step forward without the other foot lifting or it was a travel. Placing a hand uder the ball and turning it was called 'palming'. Today LeBron is allowed three stepss and i watch nearly every player in the NBA carry the ball while dribbling. The game has certainly gone from deliberate movement to hyper-speed. In the old days, kids learned to play a disciplined game. Today, they get pissed if their game is called out as incorrect or a 'turnover'. But what can you expect? These players today don't attend school except to play ball and go to collegefor one year and never attend a class. We're not dealing with intellect.

No need to single out Lebron for traveling; every step-back jumper and Euro-step is actually traveling by the old rules.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah, it basically comes down to what is meant by "tougher".

If you are talking about tougher as in...physical style of play, then things were definitely tougher in the "old days". I mean, the famous play where McHale clotheslined Rambis was a common foul. McHale didn't even get a technical foul for it. In today's game that's a flagrant 2, McHale is ejected and probably faces a suspension and fine. There are no "no layups" rules in todays game as those types of fouls carry a potentially much harsher penalty in today's game.

But, as far as the stress placed on a players body...today's game is tougher. In the "old days", you went home after the game with more bruises, scrapes and scratches...but fewer strains, sprains, pulls and tears. As you point out, there a lot more stress placed on joints and muscles with the harder and sharper cuts that players in today's game are expected to make.

i dunno- before the game became a brawl in the 90's, in many of those years in the 70s and 80s you had teams scoring 140 all the time - without hte aid of all the 3's- by just playing at a crazy fast pace.

That was a lot of stress on the body (aided by a lot of Florida Snow). At certain times, the pace of the game back then was much more frantic then the pace today.

 

[The Q]

Yeah, it basically comes down to what is meant by "tougher".

If you are talking about tougher as in...physical style of play, then things were definitely tougher in the "old days". I mean, the famous play where McHale clotheslined Rambis was a common foul. McHale didn't even get a technical foul for it. In today's game that's a flagrant 2, McHale is ejected and probably faces a suspension and fine. There are no "no layups" rules in todays game as those types of fouls carry a potentially much harsher penalty in today's game.

But, as far as the stress placed on a players body...today's game is tougher. In the "old days", you went home after the game with more bruises, scrapes and scratches...but fewer strains, sprains, pulls and tears. As you point out, there a lot more stress placed on joints and muscles with the harder and sharper cuts that players in today's game are expected to make.

I miss the good ole days

 

[The Q]

No need to single out Lebron for traveling; every step-back jumper and Euro-step is actually traveling by the old rules.

Except the NBA changed the rule specifically for him and his crab dribble

 

[BigKen]

Except the NBA changed the rule specifically for him and his crab dribble

and they extended the two step layup to a three step jam. Then everyone started moving around and traveling is rarely called. OR the 3 second rule that is no longer a rule.

The truth? The game went from a controlled disciplined game to a street lot game. Now they can't get it back.

 

[msgkings322]

and they extended the two step layup to a three step jam. Then everyone started moving around and traveling is rarely called. OR the 3 second rule that is no longer a rule.

The truth? The game went from a controlled disciplined game to a street lot game. Now they can't get it back.

Some truth to this but why would they want to "get it back"? Lots more money being made with this version.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Some truth to this but why would they want to "get it back"? Lots more money being made with this version.

Dunking was also illegal once. That was fun

 

[msgkings322]

Dunking was also illegal once. That was fun

3 foul shots to make 2 as well. Dumb

 

[trojanfan12]

3 foul shots to make 2 as well. Dumb

That was actually kind of fun. Especially if the guy missed the first free throw. The pressure would build up and if it was a road game, the crowd would louder with each free throw. Place would explode on those occasional times when someone would miss all 3. lol