The Cavs without Lebron

[tlance]

Agreed. In fact the only team in recent memory that can be considered a super team is the Warriors. In that they were a championship material team and recently added a top 3 player. You take away Curry, Durant or Klay and this team still fights for a Finals spot.

But this would only be the case if they win a couple more titles. If this current GSW team doesn't win again or goes 1-4 in a stretch of five years, then they shouldn't be considered a super team either.

I think the Heat were a super team simply because you had 3 prime superstars joining forces. Cleveland's situation was different.

 

[bksballer89]

I think the Heat were a super team simply because you had 3 prime superstars joining forces. Cleveland's situation was different.

Agreed

 

[trojanfan12]

I think the Heat were a super team simply because you had 3 prime superstars joining forces. Cleveland's situation was different.

Not really. You had the best player in the game, one superstar already in his prime and one just entering his prime. In some ways, the Cleveland situation is better because the 2 guys he joined up with are younger.

 

[tlance]

Not really. You had the best player in the game, one superstar already in his prime and one just entering his prime. In some ways, the Cleveland situation is better because the 2 guys he joined up with are younger.

See, you and I must have very different definitions of superstars.

For me, a superstar is a true game changer. A player who can put his team on his back and carry them to the playoffs. There are not many of those. Most years there are 2-4. This year, I think there might be 5 (LBJ, Durant, Russ, Harden, Curry).

KI is a very good player, perhaps a top 10 player even, but he is not a superstar and he certainly was not one when LeBron joined.

Wade and LeBron were definitely both top 3 players when they teamed up, and you could make a pretty good case for them being 1 and 2 at that time. Bosh was a top 10 player also, in nearly the same place as KI is now.

So, I need to back track a bit because Bosh was not a superstar, but neither is Kyrie.

 

[Hambombs]

See, you and I must have very different definitions of superstars.

For me, a superstar is a true game changer. A player who can put his team on his back and carry them to the playoffs. There are not many of those. Most years there are 2-4. This year, I think there might be 5 (LBJ, Durant, Russ, Harden, Curry).

KI is a very good player, perhaps a top 10 player even, but he is not a superstar and he certainly was not one when LeBron joined.

Wade and LeBron were definitely both top 3 players when they teamed up, and you could make a pretty good case for them being 1 and 2 at that time. Bosh was a top 10 player also, in nearly the same place as KI is now.

So, I need to back track a bit because Bosh was not a superstar, but neither is Kyrie.

I agree kyrie isn't a superstar. He's a star though

 

[bksballer89]

I agree kyrie isn't a superstar. He's a star though

Yeah I agree. I have high standards when it comes to calling someone a superstar. IMO there's less than 10 superstars currently in the league

 

[trojanfan12]

See, you and I must have very different definitions of superstars.

For me, a superstar is a true game changer. A player who can put his team on his back and carry them to the playoffs. There are not many of those. Most years there are 2-4. This year, I think there might be 5 (LBJ, Durant, Russ, Harden, Curry).

KI is a very good player, perhaps a top 10 player even, but he is not a superstar and he certainly was not one when LeBron joined.

Wade and LeBron were definitely both top 3 players when they teamed up, and you could make a pretty good case for them being 1 and 2 at that time. Bosh was a top 10 player also, in nearly the same place as KI is now.

So, I need to back track a bit because Bosh was not a superstar, but neither is Kyrie.

Wade wasn't really playing at a superstar level when Lebron joined him and Bosh in Miami. He was still very good and could have superstar games here and there, but he wasn't carrying a team anymore. At least not for very long.

Also, Thompson and Draymond aren't superstars either and Steph is superstar light at best. So, if the Cavs aren't a super team, because Kyrie and Love are only all star caliber, but not superstars. Then GSW isn't a super team either.

 

[tlance]

Wade wasn't really playing at a superstar level when Lebron joined him and Bosh in Miami. He was still very good and could have superstar games here and there, but he wasn't carrying a team anymore. At least not for very long.

Also, Thompson and Draymond aren't superstars either and Steph is superstar light at best. So, if the Cavs aren't a super team, because Kyrie and Love are only all star caliber, but not superstars. Then GSW isn't a super team either.

Not true.

In 2009, Wade averaged 30.2, 5 boards and 7.5 assists. He won the scoring title that year, finished 3rd in MVP voting behind LBJ and Kobe, and previously was the best player (according to Shaq) in the Heat's championship team.

If Wade was not a superstar in 2009, then LBJ is the only superstar today.

 

[tlance]

Wade wasn't really playing at a superstar level when Lebron joined him and Bosh in Miami. He was still very good and could have superstar games here and there, but he wasn't carrying a team anymore. At least not for very long.

Also, Thompson and Draymond aren't superstars either and Steph is superstar light at best. So, if the Cavs aren't a super team, because Kyrie and Love are only all star caliber, but not superstars. Then GSW isn't a super team either.

Also, refer back to my definition of super team. It is not just about pairing superstars. It is about adding a superstar to an already contending core.

Regardless of personal feelings about Curry, he was 2 time defending MVP when Durant signed there. If even his superstar status was earned because of the Dubs system, he clearly had it when KD signed.

 

[bksballer89]

Wade wasn't really playing at a superstar level when Lebron joined him and Bosh in Miami. He was still very good and could have superstar games here and there, but he wasn't carrying a team anymore. At least not for very long.

Also, Thompson and Draymond aren't superstars either and Steph is superstar light at best. So, if the Cavs aren't a super team, because Kyrie and Love are only all star caliber, but not superstars. Then GSW isn't a super team either.

I disagree with your first sentence. Wade played at a superstar level the entire first year of the big 3. The following 3 years I agree with you.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Not really. You had the best player in the game, one superstar already in his prime and one just entering his prime. In some ways, the Cleveland situation is better because the 2 guys he joined up with are younger.

You must have different definition of a super team. I think the Heat was a super team, Cleveland isnt there yet

 

[bksballer89]

You must have different definition of a super team. I think the Heat was a super team, Cleveland isnt there yet

Both are super teams. If you think the Heat were a super team then there is no way you can say Cleveland is not especially considering the version of Wade that was on Miami the last 3 years of the big 3. On top of that, Cleveland has a better collection of role players to go along with their superstars/stars

 

[Shanemansj13]

Wade wasn't really playing at a superstar level when Lebron joined him and Bosh in Miami. He was still very good and could have superstar games here and there, but he wasn't carrying a team anymore. At least not for very long.

Also, Thompson and Draymond aren't superstars either and Steph is superstar light at best. So, if the Cavs aren't a super team, because Kyrie and Love are only all star caliber, but not superstars. Then GSW isn't a super team either.

How can you say Wade wasnt a superstar and then come back and think Kyrie or Love are closer to that level. The logic doesnt make sense IMO. Kyrie could and might be better than Bosh and Wade potentially but he is nowhere near those two guys right now. Remember Wade was the man in Miami before Lebron and won a championship without him, it makes a huge difference

 

[bksballer89]

Back to the Wade being a superstar in year 1 of the big 3. Dude was 3rd in PER. LBJ was first. I'm not sure if a group of teammates ever finished top 3 in PER. And those boys did it twice

 

[Shanemansj13]

Both are super teams. If you think the Heat were a super team then there is no way you can say Cleveland is not especially considering the version of Wade that was on Miami the last 3 years of the big 3. On top of that, Cleveland has a better collection of role players to go along with their superstars/stars

Love isnt at Bosh's level, well until this season. Role players you could say Cleveland 's are better. Then Kyrie is damn good but Wade was a seasoned veteran and still right at superstar level when Bron and Bosh joined him

 

[bksballer89]

Love isnt at Bosh's level, well until this season. Role players you could say Cleveland 's are better. Then Kyrie is damn good but Wade was a seasoned veteran and still right at superstar level when Bron and Bosh joined him

I disagree with you. Love just had a bigger issue fitting in with Cleveland than Bosh did. Most people would take Minnesota Love over Toronto Bosh. Bosh was able to fit in easier because he found other ways to impact the game.

I agree about Wade. Looking back on it, you can make a case that Wade was at a superstar level for the first year and a half of the big 3 before injuries slowed him down

 

[trojanfan12]

How can you say Wade wasnt a superstar and then come back and think Kyrie or Love are closer to that level. The logic doesnt make sense IMO. Kyrie could and might be better than Bosh and Wade potentially but he is nowhere near those two guys right now. Remember Wade was the man in Miami before Lebron and won a championship without him, it makes a huge difference

Wade was a superstar the first year, not the next 3.

 

[trojanfan12]

Also, refer back to my definition of super team. It is not just about pairing superstars. It is about adding a superstar to an already contending core.

Regardless of personal feelings about Curry, he was 2 time defending MVP when Durant signed there. If even his superstar status was earned because of the Dubs system, he clearly had it when KD signed.

The Heat wasn't a contending core. They had Wade and that was it before Lebron and Bosh signed. Yet, they were a super team. Also, Wade was at a superstar level for only 1 of the 4 years Lebron was on the Heat.

 

[trojanfan12]

I disagree with you. Love just had a bigger issue fitting in with Cleveland than Bosh did. Most people would take Minnesota Love over Toronto Bosh. Bosh was able to fit in easier because he found other ways to impact the game.

I agree about Wade. Looking back on it, you can make a case that Wade was at a superstar level for the first year and a half of the big 3 before injuries slowed him down

Cracks me up how shane will tell us how great Love and Kyrie are, then try and downgrade them when the Cavs are called a super team.

He's just setting up his June excuse.

If the Cavs lose, we're going to spend the summer with him telling us how the poor, undermanned Cavs just couldn't beat that super team.

If they win, he'll spend the summer telling us all about how David slew Goliath.

 

[tlance]

The Heat wasn't a contending core. They had Wade and that was it before Lebron and Bosh signed. Yet, they were a super team. Also, Wade was at a superstar level for only 1 of the 4 years Lebron was on the Heat.

But they added Bosh before LeBron.

Had LeBron stayed in Cleveland, Miami would have been a top 3 team in the East without him. Depending on how they used cap space, they might have even been the best.