The 3&1 NBA Decades Draft Play-In 5 : Milk vs Stoke

[Nosferatu]

MILK

1st
PG -Walt "Clyde" Frazier - 60/AS
SG - Manu Ginobili - 00/AS
SG - Brandon Roy - 00/AS
PF - Bob McAdoo - 70/A
C - Nene Hilario - 00/NO

2nd
PG - Allen Iverson - 90/AS
SG - Rolando Blackman - 80/AS
SF - Billy Cunningham - 60/AS
PF - Hot Rod Williams - 80/NO
C - Tom Boerwinkle - 60/NO

3rd
PG - Earl "The Pearl" Monroe - 60/AS
SG - Paul Westphal - 70/AS
SF - Grant Hill - 90/AS
PF-Larry Nance - 80/AS
C - Rich Kelley - 70/NO

4th
PG - Stephen Curry - 00/AS
SG - Eddie Jones - 90/AS
SF - Marques Johnson - 70/AS
PF - Karl Malone - 80/AS
C - Shawn Bradley - 90/NO

VS

STOKE

1st
PG - Steve Kerr - 80/NO
SG - Andre Iguodala - 00/AS
SF - Keith Van Horn - 90/NO
PF - David Lee - 00/AS
C - Tyson Chandler - 00/AS

2nd
PG - Norm Van Lier - 60/AS
SG - Hersey Hawkins - 80/AS
SF - Tom Sanders - 60/NO
PF - Dan Issel - 70/AS
C - Mel Daniels - 60/AS

3rd
PG - Sidney Moncrief - 70/AS
SG - Dale Ellis - 80/AS
SF - Greg Ballard - 70/NO
PF - Josh Smith - 00/NO
C - Mark Eaton -80/AS

4th
PG - Gary Payton - 90/AS
SG - Kobe Bryant - 90/AS
SF - Dave DeBusschere - 60/AS
PF - Bobby Jones - 70/AS
C - Dikembe Mutombo - 90/AS

 

[Nosferatu]

MILK - 6
STOKE - 6

VOTED - Sushi, Devil, Meebs, Shane, Nos, 500, Milk, Ritz, Femur, Smitty, UK, Stoke

First to 7 wins

 

[CitySushi]

I got Milk here. I think his choice to completely punt the C position didn't hurt him in this round as none of Stoke's C's are able to take advantage offensively. Think Milk holds the edges in 1st - 3rd quarters and the 4th quarter I lean Stoke, but Curry and Mailman in a P&R would be deadly.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Stoke

 

[Shanemansj13]

I love Stoke’s 4th but I actually like Milk’s matchups in the other quarters. I got Milk

 

[Mebert]

Milk

 

[Nosferatu]

Probably the closest game IMO, I lean Stoke

 

[Pack 500]

I never thought I would see the day when fucking Nene was picked in a draft!

 

[Pack 500]

Despite of that I am still voting for Milk even though he doesn't have Calvin Murphy

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Basketball vote

 

[Ritzarmy]

Stoke. Not a fan of Milks bigs. Feel they would be over matched in the 4qtrs. Do like the rest of Milks team though.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Milk

 

[femurov]

Stoke

 

[broncosmitty]

Stoke

 

[Nosferatu]

I did text Ducey to vote here...

 

[blstoker]

All Numbers are per 36(FG/3P/FT OFF/DEF/REB AST STL/BLK PTS)

1Q

Walt Frazier vs. Steve Kerr

.490/.000/.786 1.1/4.0/5.6 5.9 1.8/0.2 18.1
.479/.454/.864 0.4/1.9/2.3 3.7 1.1/0.1 12.1

This is a throw away matchup, not much can be said that would be believable in a matchup between Steve Kerr and Walt Frazier. It's obviously Kerr!!! J/K. Frazier is a great talent that'll have a good start to the game against a weaker opponent. Kerr looks a lot better in this with his per 36 than his per game, but he's still clearly overmatched. Kerr's sole advantage is that he can (and will) hit the 3, while Frazier played most of his career without that as an option.

Edge: Frazier

Manu Ginobli vs. Andre Iguadala

.447/.369/.827 0.9/4.0/5.0 5.4 1.9/0.4 18.8
.464/.333/.712 1.0/4.4/5.5 4.7 1.6/0.5 13.2

Now this one is a little harder, since each player has his own strengths and weaknesses. Ginobli is a solid offensive player, who has had a long career coming off the bench. Iguoadala isn't as lauded as an offensive player, but his career high in scoring (19.9) outdoes Ginobli's (19.5). Overall, Ginobli has 2 All-NBA teams, Iguaodala has 2 All-Defensive teams. When Facing head-to-head, Iguoadala has had the upper hand, holding Ginobli to under 40% shooting from the floor and an average of 12.1 PPG (compared to a 13.3 overall).

Edge: Iguoadala

Brandon Roy vs. Keith Van Horn

.459/.348/.800 1.1/3.2/4.3 4.7 1.0/0.2 19.1
.443/.361/.835 2.2/5.5/7.8 1.8 0.9/0.6 18.3

This is an intriguing matchup. You have Roy, who's 6'6”, but was never really a SF, and Van Horn, who at 6'10” played a lot of his career as a SF, but may not be athletic enough to truly guard Roy 1-on-1. Overall, their shooting numbers equal out, as Roy has better number overall from the field, while Van Horn is better at distance and from the line. Roy's the better ball handler – but Van Horn is the better rebounder and shot blocker. Roy was never good in the first quart - he tended to get hot in the 4th, when the game was on the line, as such I think this is a misplay here. Unfortuenately, I just don't think Van Horn is athletic enough to cover Roy, but is big enough to cause Roy problems on defense.

Edge: Roy.

Bob McAdoo vs. David Lee

.503/.081/.754 2.5/7.7/10.2 2.5 1.0/1.6 23.9
.535/.034/.772 3.2/7.7/10.8 2.7 0.9/0.5 16.6

A matchup between 2 6'9” big men. Neither is a threat away from the basket, and though Lee shoots better, McAdoo shoots more and Lee isn't the defender McAdoo is. Overall, McAdoo is a HoFer, and Lee won't be. Edge: McAdoo

Nene vs. Tyson Chandler

.548/.140/.660 2.4/5.9/8.3 2.5 1.5/1.0 15.7
.596/.000/.646 4.0/7.9/11.9 1.1 0.7/1.5 10.9

This matchup starts a trend for milk where his centers are so offensively inept that they make mine look almost competent. Neither center is an offensive juggernaut, but Nene would get the edge on offense due to just shooting more often. Chandler on the other hand is a huge upgrade on defense with 3 All-Defensive teams and a Defensive Player of the Year award under his belt (as well as an All-NBA team).

Edge: Chandler

Overview

This quarter is pretty much a throw away for my team, it's designed to get some point on the board, but I kind've like the matchup. Yes, Milk has 3 player matchups to my 2, but his team has some weaknesses that even my less skilled team could exploit. Neither of his big men have much range – so my big men can stay around the basket and protect the rim inside – as well as allowing Chandler to help Lee on McAdoo more than if they were spread out. His wings can shoot the 3, though not so deadly that they could really do enough damage to keep Van Horn or Kerr from helping out if required. On the other hand, Frazier would be torched if he collapses to help McAdoo and Nene with my bigs, and Van Horn is just deadly enough (like Ginobli) to keep Roy a little more honest as well. I still see Milk winning the quarter, 26-21

 

[blstoker]

All Numbers are per 36(FG/3P/FT OFF/DEF/REB AST STL/BLK PTS)

2Q

Allen Iverson vs. Norm Van Lier

.425/.313/.780 0.7/2.5/3.3 5.4 1.9/0.2 23.3
.414/.000/.780 1.3/3.1/4.9 7.2 1.9/0.2 12.1

2 pretty poor shooting PGs going at it. Iverson was always about his scoring, and sometimes it was even at the cost of his team and the game. He shoots as much as anyone, and makes too few. Still the only player in NBA history to average 30 PPG and shoot less than 40% from the field. Iverson was also pretty bad at shooting 3s. He did win the MVP and was All-NBA 7 times. Van Lier is one of (if not the) best defensive point guards in NBA history. He was All-Defense 8 times in his 10 year career. Wasn't a crack shot in his own right, but he did set the table for others more often than Iverson did. With Iverson's proclivity to take bad shots, and Van Liers superior defense – this will be a long quarter for Iverson.

Edge: Van Lier

Rolando Blackman vs. Hersey Hawkins

.493/.343/.840 1.2/2.5/3.7 3.3 0.8/0.3 19.8
.461/.394/.870 0.9/3.1/4.0 3.2 1.8/0.3 16.3

A matchup between two underrated SGs (IMO). Blackmon shot better from the floor overall, while Hawkins had more range. Defensively, Hawkins was far and away better, getting 1 steal more per 36 minutes, and having twice the DWS in nearly identical minutes played. They did play head-to-head 17 times and Hersey got the better of the matchups, but it was later in Blackmon's career, including 9 in Blackmon's last 2 seasons (when he was mostly off the bench).

Edge: Hawkins

Billy Cunningham vs. Tom Sanders

.452/.263/.730 2.2/7.9/10.7 4.4 1.8/0.5 21.9
.428/.000/.767 0.0/0.0/9.4 1.7 0.0/0.0 14.2

This is offense vs. defense. Cunningham was a 5 time All-NBA/ABA and a MVP. Sanders was an 8 time champion and an all-defense. Sanders has a long history of covering Cunningham really well, holding him to well under his norms in PPG and FG% when he was on him, but not being much of an offensive threat himself, the benefit is to the team overall, not to the individual matchup.

Edge: Cunningham

Hot Rod Williams vs. Dan Issel

.480/.105/.726 2.8/5.4/8.2 2.2 1.0/2.0 13.4
.499/.204/.793 3.2/6.4/9.6 2.5 1.1/0.6 23.7

This is really the first time that defense is on Milk's side of an offense vs. defense scenario. But, this is also another HoFer vs. a not even concidered HoFer. Issel was a 5 time all-league and 7 time all star, where Williams' only award was all-rookie. Even though Issel was never looked at as an elite defender, his 0.054 DWSp48 is only slightly behind Williams' 0.0675.

Edge: Issel

Tom Boerwinkle vs. Mel Daniels

.453/.000/.675 3.8/8.6/14.4 5.0 0.8/1.0 11.5
.468/.088/.657 4.6/10.7/15.3 1.8 0.8/1.8 18.9

This is as lopsided as the Frazier/Kerr matchup. Boerwinkle spent most of his career coming off the bench – and never had a season where he averaged 30 minutes a game or received any accolades. On the other hand, Daniels is a HoFer, 7x All Star, 3x Champion, 5x All-League, 2x MVP and was a defensive stud (9.1 DWS in one season).

Edge: Daniels

Overview:

Once again, neither team has any range in the front court, but in this one neither team really has much a threat outside other than their shooting guards, of which my team has the edge with Hawkins over Blackmon. Team defense starts to come into play for my team, as every player on this lineup is skilled defensively. With Iverson dominating the ball, and possibly collapsing the entire offense and defense into the paint at times – I can see Milk's team struggling to score consistently. Second quarter goes to me. 27-19

 

[blstoker]

All Numbers are per 36(FG/3P/FT OFF/DEF/REB AST STL/BLK PTS)

3Q

Earl Monroe vs. Sidney Moncrief

.464/.000/.807 0.7/2.5/3.4 4.4 1.2/0.3 21.2
.502/.286/.831 2.2/3.3/5.6 4.3 1.4/0.4 18.6

Despite being a HoFer vs. a nonHoFer, this matchup is closer than it first appears. Both players played shooting guard most of their careers, but are point guards in this matchup. Monroe was more the traditional shooting guard, but without having a 3Pt during almost all of his career (and he didn't take one the one year he played with one), we have no idea what his range would've been. Moncrief on the other hand shot higher from the field, but his 3Pt shot wasn't all that deadly (which would explain why he only attempted 387 in 767 games). Both players would be scoring Point Guards, as neither ever did much more than 5 assists per 36 as a PG. Moncrief has a huge advantage as a defender with 2 DPOY awards and 5 All-Defense. Surprisingly, Moncrief outshines Monroe in WS, OWS and DWS – while playing fewer minutes in his career.

Edge: Moncrief

Paul Westphal vs. Dale Ellis

.504/.275/.820 0.7/2.0/2.7 6.2 1.8/0.5 22.0
.479/.403/.784 1.6/2.8/4.3 1.8 1.0/0.2 19.7

2 offensively minded SGs, where what little defensive skill there is leans to Westphal. Westphal has a much bigger advantage on getting teamates involved than Ellis. Though Ellis is remembered as a spot up 3Pt shooter, early in his career he was a super athletic scorer from all over the court. In fact, other than assists – had Ellis' career ended at 33 like Westphal's, their per36 numbers would have been eerily similar. Ellis still has a huge advantage in long range shooting, but I don't think it makes up for his disadvantage in other areas.

Edge: Westphal

Grant Hill vs. Greg Ballard

.483/.314/.769 1.2/5.2/6.4 4.4 1.3/0.6 17.7
.472/.338/.787 2.3/5.6/7.9 2.8 1.4/0.4 16.2

Grant Hill has been a darling to many for many years – and a thorn in my side (J/K). Hill has solid numbers, and like many modern SFs, he is pretty adept at passing and getting his teammates involved. Early in his career, Hill was a force to be reckoned with, injuries hurt him, but he still played until he was 40. Ballard is a guy I hadn't really heard of before his, but he put up decent numbers for a guy with 0 AS games. He played very good defense (29.9 DWS) while putting up better than average offensive numbers.

Edge: Hill

Larry Nance vs. Josh Smith

.546/.145/.755 2.7/5.9/8.6 2.8 1.0/2.4 18.4
.452/.285/.632 2.1/6.1/8.3 3.5 1.3/2.1 16.1

I personally think these 2 players a lot more similar in their athleticism than many would think. Both players were very good defensively (3 All-Defense for Nance, 1 for Smith) and their DWS per48 shows it, 0.0697 (Nance) vs. 0.700 (Smith). Nance has the advantage on offense, so –

Edge: Nance

Rich Kelley vs. Mark Eaton

.488/.000/.783 3.8/7.7/11.5 4.3 1.4/1.5 12.6
.458/.000/.649 2.7/7.3/9.9 1.2 0.5/4.4 7.5

The battle of the defensive centers. Neither is going to be much of a threat offensively in a matchup like this – and both are very good defensively (.0791 DWS Kelley, .0915 DWS Eaton). Both are rim protectors, and neither having any range, there won't be much need to move away from the basket. Eaton led the league in blocks 4 times and still holds the record for most blocks in a season, and I can't imagine it will ever be broken. Also in his advantage, Eaton is a 5x all-defense and 2x DPOY.
Edge: Eaton

Overview:

Milk threw out a lot of offense, but I threw out a lot of defense (4DPOY awards and 11 all-defensive teams). Milk also had a much better defense than in his previous 2 quarters, and has an offense with 4 players who can score and distribute the ball well. Should be a really good quarter. Milk wins quarter 3, 25-20

 

[blstoker]

All Numbers are per 36(FG/3P/FT OFF/DEF/REB AST STL/BLK PTS)

4Q

Stephen Curry vs. Gary Payton

.478/.438/.904 0.7/3.9/4.6 7.0 1.8/0.2 24.3
.466/.317/.729 1.1/3.0/4.0 6.9 1.9/0.2 16.7

Future Hall of Famer vs. Hall of Famer. This really comes down to what you like in your point guard. Curry is all offense all the time, where Payton is more rounded out. Curry is the far better outside shooter and from the line, Payton the far better defensive player who could take on opponents best offensive guard and take them away (while still being able to lead his own teams offense). Curry is a 5x All-NBA and 2x MVP while Payton was 9x All-NBA and 9x All-Defense, including DPOY.

Edge: Payton

Eddie Jones vs. Kobe Bryant

.437/.373/.809 0.8/3.4/4.2 3.1 1.8/0.6 15.5
.447/.329/.837 1.1/4.1/5.2 4.7 1.4/0.5 24.9

This matchup isn't close. Jones is a 3x all-defense, but in his career against Kobe – Kobe actually scored higher than his career average. Bryant on the other hand is a MVP, 5x Champion, 15x All-NBA, 12x All-Defense and 2x scoring champ.

Edge: Bryant.

Marques Johnson vs. Dave DeBusschere

.518/.152/.739 2.8/4.5/7.3 3.8 1.3/0.8 21.1
.432/.000/.699 1.8/8.3/11.1 2.9 0.9/0.5 16.2

Another matchup of a HoFer vs. a guy who could be considered. Johnson averaged 20 PPG for his career and was named to 3 All-NBA teams in 9 years (he only played 10 games in each of his last 2, so I didn't count them). He did have injury issues, so he was out of the league before his decline affected his per game numbers too much. DeBusschere wasn't as offensively minded as Johnson (though he scored 16 PPG or more in 9 different seasons), but he was much more adept at defense (0.0723 DWS vs. 0.0543). DeBusschere was a 6x All-Defense and an All-NBA.Edge: DeBusschere

Karl Malone vs. Bobby Jones

.516/.274/.742 2.3/7.5/9.8 3.4 1.4/0.8 24.2
.560/.000/.766 2.5/5.6/8.0 3.5 1.9/1.8 15.9

Another offense vs. defense. Malone is a 14x All-NBA and 2x MVP (also 4x All-defense). Few have ever matched the offensive achievements of The Mailman. So, how to combat such an offensive juggernaut – by putting him up against a defensive juggernaut. Jones is one of the most accomplished defensive players of all time. With 11 All-Defensive teams and an All-NBA, he isn't going to beat out Malone in this matchup, but he'll make Malone work for everything he gets.

Edge: Malone

Shawn Bradley vs. Dikembe Mutombo

.457/.103/.716 3.2/6.5/9.7 1.1 1.0/1.0 12.4
.518/.000/.684 3.7/8.4/12.1 1.2 0.5/3.2 11.5

This matchup is really unfair, in this draft and in real life. In 22 games against Mutombo, Bradley shot only 36.8% from the field and grabbed a measley 6 boards and scored just 7.5 points. Mutombo on the other hand shot 48% and grabbed 12.3 boards and 9.7 points. Both players got over 2.5 blocks a game. I love Bradley as a player, but he just is overmatched here.Mutombo is a 3x All-NBA, 6x All-Defense, 4x DPOY and Bradley isn't.

Edge: Mutombo

Overview:

Saving the best for last. This lineup is just nasty as a defensive unit. 44 All-Defensive teams, 5 Defensive Player of the Years, while still having 29 All-NBA teams and 48 all stars. This lineup is designed to shut down the opponent, and it will. With 3 big men without much range clogging the middle, Mutombo and Jones can share defensive responsibilities on Malone and not require help from Payton as he concentrates on getting into Curry's head. This lineup will make every shot taken difficult. I win quarter 4. 27-20

 

[blstoker]

The Game:

I put together the best defensive team in the draft. I have more All-Defensive teams than the next 2 teams combined. I have more DPOY awards than the next 2 teams as well. In every defensive metric, my team leads – and in many it isn't even close. Nearly every shot will be difficult to get off, let alone make. Offensively, my team is well rounded, with players who can score from every conceivable place on the court. Overall, I'm one of the more accurate teams from 2, 3 and the line. Admittedly, having this much defense hurts the offense, but not as much as it helped the defense. It;s ok if my team only score 90-100 on your teams, cause they just have to score more than your team – and with my defense, that's the plan. It'll be ugly, and it'll be low scoring, and in the end, my team will win. Me 95-90.