Teams with better non-QB talent than SF

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Oh, I think it's more than 3 or 4. It would certainly be an interesting hypothetical training camp! All 3 of their D line might make it (I said "might" not "would"), some of their linebackers, Cromartie, and maybe a guy or two on the O line. As for Holmes, well, who knows really.

I think sometimes too many people overrate the SF O line. They are good, but they don't seem to be ranking too high this year by attempts at quantitative metrics. According to Football Outsiders, they are 29th in run blocking and 22nd in pass blocking this year:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2013 OFFENSIVE LINES

You can argue with their methodology if you like, but in general I'd say their ranks are pretty reasonable.

Remember, I put "start", not just make the team. None of their LB's would start over ours. I agree with Cromartie. Mangold and ferguson probaly would on the oline. Wilkerson and Richardson probably on their dline. Holmes wouldnt start over crabtree or Boldin IMO. 3 or 4 might be a little low to say but still, its not really close.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

CB's are better... Also, Hopkins is an up and comer in as a WR... Ben Tate is also better as the #2 RB... Better KR/PR as well...

Alright, even if I give you both CBs, Hopkins at this point is not better then Crabtree or Boldin. I'll give them the KR/PR as well. Its still not even close though.

 

[FourBeeDen]

Alright, even if I give you both CBs, Hopkins at this point is not better then Crabtree or Boldin. I'll give them the KR/PR as well. Its still not even close though.

agree to disagree then

 

[RedneckNiner]

Easy for Vd to diss appear when your qb only locks onto his first read.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

You guys really still love VD that much??? Guy can be great but man he just goes away alot for a guy that is supposed to be elite. I think the ONLY real spots SF is elite are OL and front 7 on D which of course are the 2 best places to be elite ( along with QB ). I suppose you could make an argument for Gore as elite but he kind of like VD but not quite as sketchy as often. WR's are just OK IMO. Possession guys all , really good ones but no real huge threat as to down the field type action. Secondary is just average as well. I think KC, Seattle, Cincinnati and Carolina are all better overall but as long as SF stay great up front on both sides of the ball they will be right there every year.

Graham went away vs Seattle as well. VD is not only a great weapon as a receiver, but the guy is a great blocker as well. The only TE who is better is Graham. I don't see another TE who is above VD. (Gronk needs to be on the field to count)

As for the original post

The Niners oline is not as great as the hype. I would still take them over any other line though just as a unit. A great QB will make on offensive line look so much better than they are.

Gore can only do so much. The oline didn't get it done down the stretch and that is why Gore suffered. Still has the best patience in the NFL and great feet. I will just go with starters because I didn't see enough of every teams entire RB depth. Better RB's (right now) I would say... Shady, Lynch, AD, Charles, and Lacy

The WR play suffers from the QB play and offense they run. Sure they aren't burners, but Crabtree when healthy is one of the best in the game...despite what Dick Sherman thinks. Still, I would take... Cincy, Denver, Chicago, Atlanta. If Clevelands receivers could catch the ball and not drop so many I would take them as well. Then you have guys like Megatron and Dez who make a receiving corps great all by themselves. But I still take the Niners as a whole over them.

The Niners Dline is hard to judge. They aren't built to get jaw dropping stats. They are there to bully people
The 49ers have the best LB's in the NFL and it isn't close. They have back ups that are as good as most teams starters. Front 7 is as good as anybodies. I would not take a front 7 over the Niners. Carolina is pretty close though, and Seattle is pretty good as a unit although they don't have the individual stand out players.

The Niners secondary is not that great. It didn't help that Culliver went down before the season started, and everyone they got to step up seemed to get hurt too. I won't even list the teams with better DB's because there are a lot. Although the 49ers have pretty good safeties.

K/P: I would take the Niners although there isn't a huge difference in a lot of teams. Dawson had a great year and he has a strong and accurate leg. Lee had an off year, but is still one of the best in the game. I would maybe take NE though. Gradkowski is a great kicker, and bombed a 60 yard punt when their punter was injured vs the Colts. Have him do both and free up a roster spot

The Niners return game is consistent at getting 25 yards a return on kick offs and a shaky fair catch on pretty much every punt. Needs an upgrade badly.

 

[NinerSickness]

Easy for Vd to diss appear when your qb only locks onto his first read.

...And stares him down like he's a hot chick.

 

[zman1527]

Nice try sickness. Trying to get us all to come to the conclusion"Garsh, I guess it is all Kap's fault. Sickness is right, lets trade him for a bag of Doritos."

LMAO.

We all know the D is great, but what about the O? O-line stepped up and pass blocked great at the end of the year. Blocking for the run game? Not so good, in fact pretty freaking poor. Gore is nice, his patience and vision will get more yards than many guys. But he won't break one, cannot get outside, does not really scare the defense. Running backs in the pass game? Non-existent. WR: good, but nothing explosive to stretch a D. VD is great but doesn't get enough volume to be all NFL. To summarize, our offensive talent is not that great.

 

[NinerSickness]

Nice try sickness. Trying to get us all to come to the conclusion"Garsh, I guess it is all Kap's fault. Sickness is right, lets trade him for a bag of Doritos."

LMAO.

if the Niners could subsequently trade that bag of Dorritos for the top pick of the draft (DumbDumb's probably even worth more than that at this point)... then garsh I guess I kinda am trying to get you all to come to that conclusion.

Because... well... It's all Kap's fault. He's incompetent, and he will NEVER win a Super Bowl. Pigs will fly first.

 

[zman1527]

if the Niners could subsequently trade that bag of Dorritos for the top pick of the draft (DumbDumb's probably even worth more than that at this point)... then garsh I guess I kinda am trying to get you all to come to that conclusion.

Because... well... It's all Kap's fault. He's incompetent, and he will NEVER win a Super Bowl. Pigs will fly first.

I would take that bet. Kap will win one SB.

 

[tzill]

Wrong and wrong.

You missed the caveat: "non-QB"

The crap Nolan misses could fill a library.

 

[MHSL82]

Neither sickness wanting to trade a Niner? Pretty standard. Getting the number one overall draft pick? Nah, they have one of those every year. wartyOne's moldy him sandwich? Now, that would be something.

wartyOne, is a "just kidding" necessary?

 

[NinerSickness]

Does anyone seriously expect the 49ers to get better in the non-QB talent area? That's extremely unrealistic.

JSmith: Getting old; still great but not the 1-man wrecking crew he was in 2010 & 2011.

Crabtree: Injury prone; kind of slow; DumbDumb thinks he's Jerry Rice for some reason. Contract year; probably gonna get about 10 million a year .

Bowman: Let's be realistic about this. He's not going to be the same after that injury. He could still be great, but he'll never be the 2012 Bowman again. And he's REALLY expensive.

Secondary: Reid will probably be the only returning starter. It's not exactly easy to fill 3 starting positions in the secondary. Could the Niners get lucky like they did w/ Goldson as a late-round pick? Sure. That's usually the exception.

Gore: Will be 31

Boldin: will be 34 & is a FA.

How much more help do you expect to come? Because it feels like this team has peaked, and they're not going to be able to sustain this level of play unless they start thinking way outside the box & shake up the roster.

Name one non-QB starter on this team besides Reid you expect to be better in 2014 than they were in 2013.

 

[JDM]

Name one. I'm waiting.

Clearly Seattle, seeing as they have a mediocre QB too and beat you.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Name one non-QB starter on this team besides Reid you expect to be better in 2014 than they were in 2013.

There are definitely a couple.

Aldon Smith for one. He's not even in his prime yet, has more experience, hopefully doesnt have any more incidents off the field and can stay focused.

Anthony Davis - He played pretty poorly. I'm hoping/expecting him to rebound and play more closely to his 2012 self that got him his contract and progress from that point.

Alex Boone - He is entering his prime and has more experience at the guard position.

Iupati - He was pretty awful in 2013 IMO. He's gotta be better, right?

Brock - maybe? Entering his prime and has some starting experience under his belt now.

 

[tomikcon1971]

Bruce Miller? Still learning his position. Should be better.

 

[-AC-]

Its funny to ask how many teams have an equal amount of talent as the 49ers... The two teams n the Superbowl definitely do, but none the less the Niners are in the top 5 talented teams in the NFL... Coincidentally, the 49ers made it to the final four teams to play this season... I fail to see WTF this thread proves or what the point is? The Niners played in sub-zero temperatures in GB and won, then traveled across country and beat a team in an early game that was full of emotion. Then to go to arguably the hardest places to play on the road and coming up 4 inches short of a victory because of a terrific play by the defender, and unfortunately these are the ridiculous threads you have to deal with...

 

[NinerSickness]

There are definitely a couple.

Aldon Smith for one. He's not even in his prime yet, has more experience, hopefully doesnt have any more incidents off the field and can stay focused.

No. Aldon isn't getting any better. I don't think it's possible for him to get much better. He peaked in his 2nd year. Expecting him to improve is crazy.

Anthony Davis - He played pretty poorly. I'm hoping/expecting him to rebound and play more closely to his 2012 self that got him his contract and progress from that point.

That sounds pretty optimistic. He's been in the league 4 years now.

Alex Boone - He is entering his prime and has more experience at the guard position.

Iupati - He was pretty awful in 2013 IMO. He's gotta be better, right?

2 more guys who are all-pro' or near it. You can't expect to get much better guard play than the Niners have had the last couple of seasons. That's really unrealistic.

Brock - maybe? Entering his prime and has some starting experience under his belt now.

Brock isn't a starter, but he might get better. I have no delusions that he's the next Patrick Peterson though. In fact, if the Niners settle on him as the #1 CB I'll be sorely disappointed.

So if Reid, Brock & Bruce Miller get a tiny bit better is that enough to propel the 49ers over the rest of the top teams? If you're realistic you'll say no.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

You dont think a 24 yr old player can improve his game? That is non sense. He is going to get better recognizing plays, playing better coverage when they do drop him back, learning the position better, etc. Same thing with Davis. He is only 24 years old and still getting better physically and mentally. He was pretty raw coming out of college.


All these guys listed are pretty young or just entering their prime. Aren't humans in their top physical from around the 26-28 yr period?

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Bruce Miller? Still learning his position. Should be better.

yeah I agree with this one as well

 

[NinerSickness]

You dont think a 24 yr old player can improve his game? That is non sense. He is going to get better recognizing plays, playing better coverage when they do drop him back, learning the position better, etc. Same thing with Davis. He is only 24 years old and still getting better physically and mentally. He was pretty raw coming out of college.


All these guys listed are pretty young or just entering their prime. Aren't humans in their top physical from around the 26-28 yr period?

I didn't Anthony Davis he can't improve. I said that's pretty optimistic. Can an offensive lineman get better from his 4th to 5th season? Sure. But I wouldn't bet the farm that he's going to look all that different next year than he has the last 2. And if he does improve is it going to be night & day?

Anthony Davis, a FB, the #3 CB and Reid MIGHT get better next year.

JSmith, Gore, whoever's the starting WR to replace Boldin (even if it's Boldin) & Bowman should all decline in production if we're being realistic. That doesn't seem like a wash; it seems like a net loss.

Now SF could improve other positions like CB if thy get a guy like Revis or one of the Cromarties, but they're almost certainly not going to improve the WR position from Boldin's 1000+ season.

What else is there to improve? KR? Safety?