Teams with 10 Best Forward/Defense Groups

[JBM73]

Per ESPN, here's their take on the 10 teams with the best forward and defense groups (articles are from ESPN Insider, so I can't post links):

Forwards:
1) Pittsburgh
2) Chicago
3) LA
4) Edmonton
5) Boston
6) Philadelphia
7) Detroit
8) NYR
9) St Louis
10) Colorado

Defense:
1) Chicago
2) Boston
3) NYR
4) LA
5) St Louis
6) Vancouver
7) Phoenix
8) Montreal
9) Pittsburgh
10) San Jose

 

[JBM73]

In looking at the lists, the biggest disagreement I have is with Edmonton at #4 for forwards. Yes, their top 6 oozes talent and potential but their bottom 6 are, for the most part, atrocious.

 

[awaz]

In looking at the lists, the biggest disagreement I have is with Edmonton at #4 for forwards. Yes, their top 6 oozes talent and potential but their bottom 6 are, for the most part, atrocious.

2nd to that is pittsburgh at #9 for defense.. they have letang who is, for the most part, 1 dimensional, orpik who is also 1 dimensional (and wasn't very good in that dimension last season), and martin who is either a great two-way dman, or a marginal AHL player depending on the season.. after that, a lot of 'meh'.. maybe in 4-5 years when their prospects are ready to roll i'd agree w/ that

but i definitely agree, edmonton at #4 for forwards is completely laughable. edmonton was 18th in goals for last year. 18th! how do they have the #4 best forward crew? lol @ espn.

 

[lasgop8]

Per ESPN, here's their take on the 10 teams with the best forward and defense groups (articles are from ESPN Insider, so I can't post links):

Forwards:
1) Pittsburgh
2) Chicago
3) LA
4) Edmonton
5) Boston
6) Philadelphia
7) Detroit
8) NYR
9) St Louis
10) Colorado

Defense:
1) Chicago
2) Boston
3) NYR
4) LA
5) St Louis
6) Vancouver
7) Phoenix
8) Montreal
9) Pittsburgh
10) San Jose

Every year the so called experts at ESPN get the stanley cup winner very wrong so i can only take their predictions with a grain of salt. Here is the power rankings they had last season i cant find the preseason predictions but this will have to do

NHL Hockey Power Rankings - Week Week 1 - National Hockey League - ESPN

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Per ESPN, here's their take on the 10 teams with the best forward and defense groups (articles are from ESPN Insider, so I can't post links):

Forwards:
1) Pittsburgh
2) Chicago
3) LA
4) Edmonton
5) Boston
6) Philadelphia
7) Detroit
8) NYR
9) St Louis
10) Colorado

Defense:
1) Chicago
2) Boston
3) NYR
4) LA
5) St Louis
6) Vancouver
7) Phoenix
8) Montreal
9) Pittsburgh
10) San Jose

Hmm, going by CapGeek.com,

Forwards

1) Pittsburgh
-Sidney Crosby
-Evgeni Malkin
-James Neal
-Pascal Dupuis
-Chris Kunitz
-Brandon Sutter
-Jussi Jokinen
-Beau Bennett
-Craig Adams
-Dustin Jeffrey
-Joe Vitale
-Matt D'Agostini

2) Chicago
-Patrick Kane
-Jonathan Toews
-Patrick Sharp
-Marian Hossa
-Brandon Saad
-Michal Handzus
-Bryan Bickell
-Andrew Shaw
-Brandon Bolig
-Jeremy Morin
-Jimmy Hayes
-Marcus Kruger

3) LA
-Anze Kopitar
-Jeff Carter
-Dustin Brown
-Mike Richards
-Justin Williams
-Jarrett Stoll
-Trevor Lewis
-Matt Frattin
-Kyle Clifford
-Daniel Carcillo
-Colin Fraser
-Dwight King
-JordanNolan

4) Edmonton
-Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
-Jordan Eberle
-Sam Gagner
-Taylor Hall
-Nail Yakupov
-David Perron
-Ryan Smyth
-Ryan Jones
-Jesse Joensuu
-Anton Lander
-Mike Brown

5) Boston
-Patrice Bergeron
-David Krejci
-Brad Marchand
-Milan Lucic
-Jarome Iginla
-Luoi Eriksson
-Chris Kelly
-Daniel Paille
-Shawn Thornton
-Carl Soderberg
-Jordan Caron


6) Philadelphia
-Claude Giroux
-Jakub Voracek
-Scott Hartnell
-Vincent Lacavalier
-Wayne Simmonds
-Brayden Schenn
-Sean Couturier
-Matt Read
-Max Talbot
-Zac Rinaldo
-Scott Laughton
-Jay Rosehill
-Adam Hall

7) Detroit
-Pavel Datsyuk
-Henrik Zetterberg
-Daniel Alfredsson
-Stephen Weiss
-Mikael Samuelsson
-Justin Abdelkader
-Gustav Nyquist
-Drew Miller
-Tomas Tatar
-Jordin Tootoo
Joakim Andersson
Cory Emmerton

8) NYR
-Rick Nash
-Derek Stepan
-Ryan Callahan
-Derrick Brassard
-Carl Hagelin
-Brad Richards
-Benoit Pouliot
-Chris Kreider
-Mats Zuccarello
-Darroll Powe
-Aron Asham
-Dominic Moore

9) St Louis
-David Backes
-TJ Oshie
-Vladimir Tarasenko
-Chris Stewart
-Derek Roy
-Alexander Steen
-Patrik Berglund
-Keith Aucoin
-Vladimir Sobotka
-Magnus Paajarvi
-Jaden Schwartz
-Maxim Lapierre
-Chris Porter
-Ryan Reaves
-Adam Cracknell

10) Colorado
-Gabriel Landeskog
-Matt Duchene
-Ryan O'Reilly
-Nathan MacKinnon
-Paul Stastny
-PA Parenteau
-Alex Tanguay
-Steve Downie
-Jamie McGinn
-John Mitchell
-Patrick Bordeleau
-Mark Olver
-Tomas Vincour


Defense

1) Chicago
-Duncan Keith
-Brent Seabrook
-Johnny Oduya
-Niklas Hjalmarsson
-Nick Leddy
Michal Rozsival
-Sheldon Brookbank

2) Boston
-Zdeno Chara
-Dennis Seidenberg
-Johnny Boychuk
-Adam McQuid
-Torey Krug
-Dougie Hamilton
-Matt Bartkowski

3) NYR
-Marc Staal
-Michael Del Zotto
-Ryan McDonagh
-Dan Girardi
-John Moore
-Anton Stralman
-Justin Faulk
Aaron Johnson

4) LA
-Drew Doughty
-Slava Voynov
-Willie Mitchell
-Robyn Regehr
-Matt Greene
-Alec Martinez
-Jake Muzzin
-Keaton Ellerby
-Jeff Schultz

5) St Louis
-Alex Pietrangelo
-Jay Bouwmeester
-Kevin Shattenkirk
-Barret Jackman
-Jordan Leopold
-Roman Polak
-Ian Cole

6) Vancouver
-Dan Hamhuis
-Alexander Edler
-Jason Garrison
-Kevin Bieksa
-Yannick Weber
-Chris Tanev
-Frank Corrado

7) Phoenix
-Oliver Ekman-Larsson
-Keith Yandle
-Zbynek Michalek
-Klesa Rostislav
-Derek Morris
-David Schlemko
Michael Stone
-David Rundblad

8) Montreal
-PK Subban
-Andrei Markov
-Josh Georges
-Raphael Diaz
-Emelin Alexi
-Francis Bouillon
-Douglas Murray
-Jarred Tinordi
-Davis Drewiske

9) Pittsburgh
-Kris Letang
-Rob Scuderi
-Paul Martin
-Brooks Orpik
-Matt Niskanen
-Simon Despres
-Deryk Engelland
-Robert Bortuzzo

10) San Jose
-Dan Boyle
-Marc Edouard Vlasic
-Brad Stuart
-Matt Irwin
-Jason Demers
-Justin Braun
-Scott Hannan

They're pretty close, I'll have to sort thru them when I get home.

 

[JBM73]

Nice work, Doob! I was going to reply to your post just so everyone would have to scroll through the list twice... ;-)

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Nice work, Doob! I was going to reply to your post just so everyone would have to scroll through the list twice... ;-)

Thanks Jeff, I figured that if we're going to evaluate these teams we should look at their projected lineups.

 

[JBM73]

Thanks Jeff, I figured that if we're going to evaluate these teams we should look at their projected lineups.

Agreed! The actual ESPN Insider articles provided the justifications, but were too long to copy and paste in their entirety.

If anyone wants to know what they said about a particular team on the list, I'd be happy to post it.

 

[JBM73]

Looks like you missed Boyd Gordon on the Edmonton forward list.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Looking at the list of forwards, I would probably say the Flyers have the best forwards. They have about 7 or 8 star caliber forwards while most other teams have about 6.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Looks like you missed Boyd Gordon on the Edmonton forward list.

Yeah, I also have "Emelin Alexi" on the Habs LOL

I did it on my iPhone so please take my list with a grain of salt. I just wanted to give everyone an idea of what these forwards & dmen consisted of. I think I got the top 6 for most teams right. That's what I was hoping to get with the dmen. Everything after that is a guess at this point, even for CapGeek.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Agreed! The actual ESPN Insider articles provided the justifications, but were too long to copy and paste in their entirety.

If anyone wants to know what they said about a particular team on the list, I'd be happy to post it.

What'd they say about my Pens, Jeff?

 

[Vadered]

What'd they say about my Pens, Jeff?

You mean besides "Boooooooooooooo!!!", right?

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

You mean besides "Boooooooooooooo!!!", right?

LOL hey now, that's my line when talking about the Flyers

 

[JBM73]

Here's the Pens and Flyers:

1. Pittsburgh Penguins


General manager Ray Shero was remarkably efficient in tackling his offseason to-do list after the Penguins were eliminated from the playoffs by the Boston Bruins. But looking back, it's still incredible he was able to bring back everybody he did in a cap system. Pascal Dupuis and Chris Kunitz have annual cap hits under $4 million per season, which is great value. Matt D'Agostini, who scored 21 goals with the Blues in 2010-11, might end up being a sneaky good signing.
This forward group has everything you want in an elite unit -- starting with strength down the middle with Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Brandon Sutter. James Neal brings size on the wing, Dupuis the speed. Beau Bennett has great patience with the puck for a young player (he's 21) and is a great passer. There are not a lot of weaknesses here.
NHL talent evaluator's take: "I think the guy they'll miss the most because he's been there is Matt Cooke. Say what you want about Cooke, but he was an effective player for them. I thought [Brenden] Morrow was really good for them in the playoffs. He was excellent. But with all the injuries and everything else, one thing they've had consistent there is that third line, and Cooke had been an effective player there."


6. Philadelphia Flyers


Injuries derailed the Flyers last season, and things are off to a rough start again with the finger tendon injury suffered by Claude Giroux during a golf outing. He needs to get back to the consistent production that made him one of the five best players in the game. Lost in the disaster that was last season was a 22-goal year from Jakub Voracek, a career-high accomplished in only 48 games. His shooting percentage was at 17.1 percent -- well above his career average of 10.4 -- so that production likely will decline, but he's proven to be a nice addition for the Flyers.
The biggest question for Philadelphia will be whether Vincent Lecavalier is an upgrade over the departed Danny Briere.
NHL talent evaluator's take: "[Lecavalier]'s slowed down a bit. Does he accept he's not that top player? It's similar with Tampa where he had [Steven] Stamkos ahead of him. I don't know. At the end of the day, he's a bigger body than Danny, I guess. I don't know if the production is going to be any different than what they got from Danny. They're not real big up front, I think they wanted to get a little bit bigger in the middle. I never thought he was going to get the deal he got. But he'll be motivated to come in and it'll be interesting."


D -
9. Pittsburgh Penguins


It's not lost here that part of the reason the Penguins underachieved in the playoffs in 2013 was because of struggles on defense and some questionable defensive zone coverage. But the addition of Scuderi helps address that, and Kris Letang brings an offensive skill set to this defense that 29 other teams would love to have, even if he's not perfect defensively.
GM Ray Shero has done a nice job of collecting young defensemen, and at some point they will push for playing time at the NHL level, especially if Matt Niskanen is traded. Paul Martin was good for the Penguins last season, and a repeat of that performance is critical to their success in 2013-14. "Martin playing like Martin makes a world of difference," the scout said.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Here's the Pens and Flyers:

1. Pittsburgh Penguins


General manager Ray Shero was remarkably efficient in tackling his offseason to-do list after the Penguins were eliminated from the playoffs by the Boston Bruins. But looking back, it's still incredible he was able to bring back everybody he did in a cap system. Pascal Dupuis and Chris Kunitz have annual cap hits under $4 million per season, which is great value. Matt D'Agostini, who scored 21 goals with the Blues in 2010-11, might end up being a sneaky good signing.
This forward group has everything you want in an elite unit -- starting with strength down the middle with Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Brandon Sutter. James Neal brings size on the wing, Dupuis the speed. Beau Bennett has great patience with the puck for a young player (he's 21) and is a great passer. There are not a lot of weaknesses here.
NHL talent evaluator's take: "I think the guy they'll miss the most because he's been there is Matt Cooke. Say what you want about Cooke, but he was an effective player for them. I thought [Brenden] Morrow was really good for them in the playoffs. He was excellent. But with all the injuries and everything else, one thing they've had consistent there is that third line, and Cooke had been an effective player there."


6. Philadelphia Flyers


Injuries derailed the Flyers last season, and things are off to a rough start again with the finger tendon injury suffered by Claude Giroux during a golf outing. He needs to get back to the consistent production that made him one of the five best players in the game. Lost in the disaster that was last season was a 22-goal year from Jakub Voracek, a career-high accomplished in only 48 games. His shooting percentage was at 17.1 percent -- well above his career average of 10.4 -- so that production likely will decline, but he's proven to be a nice addition for the Flyers.
The biggest question for Philadelphia will be whether Vincent Lecavalier is an upgrade over the departed Danny Briere.
NHL talent evaluator's take: "[Lecavalier]'s slowed down a bit. Does he accept he's not that top player? It's similar with Tampa where he had [Steven] Stamkos ahead of him. I don't know. At the end of the day, he's a bigger body than Danny, I guess. I don't know if the production is going to be any different than what they got from Danny. They're not real big up front, I think they wanted to get a little bit bigger in the middle. I never thought he was going to get the deal he got. But he'll be motivated to come in and it'll be interesting."


D -
9. Pittsburgh Penguins


It's not lost here that part of the reason the Penguins underachieved in the playoffs in 2013 was because of struggles on defense and some questionable defensive zone coverage. But the addition of Scuderi helps address that, and Kris Letang brings an offensive skill set to this defense that 29 other teams would love to have, even if he's not perfect defensively.
GM Ray Shero has done a nice job of collecting young defensemen, and at some point they will push for playing time at the NHL level, especially if Matt Niskanen is traded. Paul Martin was good for the Penguins last season, and a repeat of that performance is critical to their success in 2013-14. "Martin playing like Martin makes a world of difference," the scout said.

I don't think we underachieved this past year because of our defense at all. I think we underachieved because we only scored 2 goals in 4 games against the B's. I'll admit the previous year our defense was our downfall, but not last season. Last season, what really messed us up was our lack of speed.

 

[awaz]

I don't think we underachieved this past year because of our defense at all. I think we underachieved because we only scored 2 goals in 4 games against the B's. I'll admit the previous year our defense was our downfall, but not last season. Last season, what really messed us up was our lack of speed.

this is gunna sound like insults coming from a flyers fan, but i really do think the pens biggest problem is they're kinda soft. physically and mentally. they dont have a lot of brute force outside of orpik and engelland.. i dont count neal and kunitz because their 'force' more often then not results in penalties (pretty dirty players).. and crosby/letang freak out any time your super physical with them.. might be a little harsh concerning crosby, because i'm sure he deals with a lot more than i notice because everyone hates him, but he still has quite a temper, and if you spark him, he loses his game completely.. when they go up against a team as physical and as annoying as the bruins are, they struggle.

they lack guys like guerin and talbot who are just geniune tough character guys that can still make a difference (which excludes asham and adams). guys that can get their face beat while getting creamed on the scoreboard, but still get up being the same wise ass he always is (fuck you talbot.)

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

this is gunna sound like insults coming from a flyers fan, but i really do think the pens biggest problem is they're kinda soft. physically and mentally. they dont have a lot of brute force outside of orpik and engelland.. i dont count neal and kunitz because their 'force' more often then not results in penalties (pretty dirty players).. and crosby/letang freak out any time your super physical with them.. might be a little harsh concerning crosby, because i'm sure he deals with a lot more than i notice because everyone hates him, but he still has quite a temper, and if you spark him, he loses his game completely.. when they go up against a team as physical and as annoying as the bruins are, they struggle.

they lack guys like guerin and talbot who are just geniune tough character guys that can still make a difference (which excludes asham and adams). guys that can get their face beat while getting creamed on the scoreboard, but still get up being the same wise ass he always is (fuck you talbot.)

I don't think we're soft physically, but I do think we're soft mentally. Seems like whenever things don't go our way we get frustrated & start resorting to goon hockey and therefore take stupid penalties. We really do need guys like Billy G & Max back, guys who could scrap, especially in front of the net. Glad we got Scud back, I think he sort of brings back that element on the defensive side, but if would be nice if we had more blue collared forwards who are capable of performing in those ugly games where the skill doesn't cut it.

BTW, you guys need to forgive Max for the "shhhh", you gotta love all the stuff he does for his team on and off the ice. Really wish we had Max back, and I envy you Flyer fans for having him.

 

[awaz]

Oh don't get me wrong I'm glad the flyers have talbot. But I still fuckin hate him.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Oh don't get me wrong I'm glad the flyers have talbot. But I still fuckin hate him.

Hey now...



But seriously, would you guys be willing to give him back to the Pens? Like you said, guys like Max are exactly what the Pens need on the back lines right now.