Taylor Gabriel...

[averagejoe]

Fundamental differences? I disagree.
They run fast and they catch footballs.
Unless someone is putting an exaggerated amount of difference in height and less than 2/100's of a second in speed (and if you include their DNA), then yeah, they're different.

 

[richig07]

I didn't make it up. Came from coach Nagy himself.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...arik-cohen-on-his-tyreek-hill-comparison/amp/

Oh, you have definitely not been the only one I have heard it out of.

 

[richig07]

Fundamental differences? I disagree.
They run fast and they catch footballs.
Unless someone is putting an exaggerated amount of difference in height and less than 2/100's of a second in speed (and if you include their DNA), then yeah, they're different.

That would be 2/10's of a second. Which is a big difference.

As is 4 inches in height.

They run fast and they catch footballs.

Okay, then... why even evaluate WR's? They all run fast and catch footballs. It's the NFL. lol

 

[averagejoe]

That would be 2/10's of a second. Which is a big difference.

As is 4 inches in height.

They run fast and they catch footballs.

Okay, then... why even evaluate WR's? They all run fast and catch footballs. It's the NFL. lol

Sorry but I disagree.
NFL history is loaded with players who were too short or too slow to play their respective positions.
And if Nagy wants to move Cohen around because he believes he presents an advantage for the offense, I'm all for it.

 

[richig07]

Sorry but I disagree.
NFL history is loaded with players who were too short or too slow to play their respective positions.
And if Nagy wants to move Cohen around because he believes he presents an advantage for the offense, I'm all for it.

NFL history is loaded with players who were too short or too slow to play their respective positions.

A) You're essentially saying "Cohen is shorter than Hill, slower than Hill and doesn't even play the same position... but he can totally be the same person."... There simply isn't evidence to suggest it to be true. Pointing out how... say... Drew Brees is a successful QB under six foot, is just not pertinent to the conversation. I would also add that there's never been a SINGLE successful NFL WR at 5'6. Maybe Cohen can be the first... but odds are stacked WAY against it.

I guess I am just really confused. Cohen isn't a WR. That's one of my main points of contention.

I am all for Cohen being moved around too. I just don't get the Hill comparison.

 

[averagejoe]

I guess I am just really confused. Cohen isn't a WR. That's one of my main points of contention.

I am all for Cohen being moved around too. I just don't get the Hill comparison.

It was a simple comparison that Tarik Cohen made of himself to Tyreek Hill.
And Nagy agreed.
I was simply borrowing the same comparison.
One reason why I borrowed it was because I agree with it.
It's just that simple.
It was merely an opinion I agreed with.

I still feel that RB and WR have the same fundamental (or basic) skills.
Regardless of height, weight or speed.
I understand there are exceptions. i.e. shortest player at a certain position, etc.
Yet from my point of view, and maybe I'm alone here, but I feel both positions must have a lot of the same skill sets to be successful.

Sorry if the train of thought in my head derailed as it got typed out in this thread.
Go Bears!

 

[richig07]

It was a simple comparison that Tarik Cohen made of himself to Tyreek Hill.
And Nagy agreed.
I was simply borrowing the same comparison.
One reason why I borrowed it was because I agree with it.
It's just that simple.
It was merely an opinion I agreed with.

I still feel that RB and WR have the same fundamental (or basic) skills.
Regardless of height, weight or speed.
I understand there are exceptions. i.e. shortest player at a certain position, etc.
Yet from my point of view, and maybe I'm alone here, but I feel both positions must have a lot of the same skill sets to be successful.

Sorry if the train of thought in my head derailed as it got typed out in this thread.
Go Bears!

The two positions are very different. A transition mid-career to WR rarely yields fantastic results. A small handful become serviceable, but it's extremely rare that a QB/RB/DB to WR transition results in some kind of a smashing success. Cohen is rather solid in the role he's in. It just doesn't make sense.

Having to drop RB all together after a successful rookie season and learn the entire route tree, blocking from the WR position, the nuanced concepts within the position... That alone is just an odd thing to do.

Most transitional WR's who carve out an NFL role wind up making some explosive plays, but struggle with drops, poor route running, blocking and fundamentals. Which yields inconsistent results (i.e. Hester). Terrell Pryor has play making ability and has shown it in bursts. However, he has been dead last at run blocking per PFF at the position every season, if I recall correctly.

These mistakes will only be magnified with Cohen's impossibly small frame.

I think you misunderstand Nagy.

"As you see on tape, the one thing if you go back and look at simple numbers, you're going to see that Cohen can run the ball a little bit more from the backfield. Not that Tyreek can't. So they're different. So I don't think it is fair to compare them but I do understand why people compare them, and for me, I am very excited to coach both of them and look forward to working with Cohen."

He's basically just saying they're both explosive... He is essentially outright implying that Cohen won't have a Hill-esc role.

 

[averagejoe]

Thanks for the reply. I’ll take a page out of your own notebook and break down your response.

A transition mid-career to WR rarely yields fantastic results. A small handful become serviceable, but it's extremely rare that a QB/RB/DB to WR transition results in some kind of a smashing success. Cohen is rather solid in the role he's in. It just doesn't make sense.

Perhaps the implication was there, but I never said I wanted Cohen to switch positions. Because of Cohen’s versatility and similarities to Hill, all I was hoping for was that Nagy would use Cohen all over the field like he did with Hill in KC.

Having to drop RB all together after a successful rookie season and learn the entire route tree, blocking from the WR position, the nuanced concepts within the position... That alone is just an odd thing to do.

You may be right. But the NFL today is about exploiting defensive weaknesses and disguising offenses. Skill players are moved around constantly on offense. WR may line up in the backfield. RB can line up as a wideout. With protection, audibles and the like, every player on offense needs to be familiar with all 11 offensive assignments.

Most transitional WR's who carve out an NFL role wind up making some explosive plays, but struggle with drops, poor route running, blocking and fundamentals. Which yields inconsistent results (i.e. Hester). Terrell Pryor has play making ability and has shown it in bursts. However, he has been dead last at run blocking per PFF at the position every season, if I recall correctly.

I wasn’t comparing Devin Hester who was originally a DB. Nor Terrell Pryor who was a QB in college. Their failures should not be considered because neither was a RB or WR. The positions mentioned were RB and WR as comparable.

The two positions are very different.

Still disagree. Most RB make a living catching the ball. Marshall Faulk, Brian Westbrook, Tiki Barber. These guys thrived as receivers and not just out of the backfield. WR Tavon Austin has over 1200 yards rushing. WR Percy Harvin is just shy of 1000 rushing yards. And Ty Mongtomery showed in recent history that there are players that can do both effectively.

These mistakes will only be magnified with Cohen's impossibly small frame.

Again, wasn’t talking about a permanent move. But I will submit this as Exhibit A: In this NFL.com video link, Cohen lines up as a WR in the Carolina game.

WARNING: SARCASM ALERT! Wow, after seeing that video, I’m stunned. Given Cohen’s size disadvantage and all. Plus the fact that Cohen doesn’t play WR. This must have been a huge fluke for Cohen to get open so far down field and make a catch that only a WR-trained-from-birth can make? RB aren’t skilled to do that. Their positions are so very different. So I’m told.

I think you misunderstand Nagy.

I think you misunderstood me.

 

[richig07]

Thanks for the reply. I’ll take a page out of your own notebook and break down your response.


Perhaps the implication was there, but I never said I wanted Cohen to switch positions. Because of Cohen’s versatility and similarities to Hill, all I was hoping for was that Nagy would use Cohen all over the field like he did with Hill in KC.


You may be right. But the NFL today is about exploiting defensive weaknesses and disguising offenses. Skill players are moved around constantly on offense. WR may line up in the backfield. RB can line up as a wideout. With protection, audibles and the like, every player on offense needs to be familiar with all 11 offensive assignments.


I wasn’t comparing Devin Hester who was originally a DB. Nor Terrell Pryor who was a QB in college. Their failures should not be considered because neither was a RB or WR. The positions mentioned were RB and WR as comparable.


Still disagree. Most RB make a living catching the ball. Marshall Faulk, Brian Westbrook, Tiki Barber. These guys thrived as receivers and not just out of the backfield. WR Tavon Austin has over 1200 yards rushing. WR Percy Harvin is just shy of 1000 rushing yards. And Ty Mongtomery showed in recent history that there are players that can do both effectively.


Again, wasn’t talking about a permanent move. But I will submit this as Exhibit A: In this NFL.com video link, Cohen lines up as a WR in the Carolina game.

WARNING: SARCASM ALERT! Wow, after seeing that video, I’m stunned. Given Cohen’s size disadvantage and all. Plus the fact that Cohen doesn’t play WR. This must have been a huge fluke for Cohen to get open so far down field and make a catch that only a WR-trained-from-birth can make? RB aren’t skilled to do that. Their positions are so very different. So I’m told.


I think you misunderstood me.

Of course Cohen lined up as a WR. He did many times. That's the NFL in the 2010's. Most teams have a RB who can do that.

I agree Cohen should be lined up at WR in certain packages. I've said that he should be moved around in multiple threads on this forum. I have never disputed that.

Do you think it's "special" or "rare" for a RB to be able to line up on the outside and make a play, though? It's not.

The fact that Cohen can catch passes out of the slot does not make him Tyreek Hill. Anymore than the fact that Matt Forte could... etc... A RB lining up for a few plays at WR, doesn't make him a WR. Anymore than Trey Burton throwing a TD in the SB makes him a QB.

No one is disputing Cohen's versatility.

If you are only comparing Hill and Cohen as to point out "They're both explosive and versatile"... Sure. No shit. However, that's where it starts and stops.

I don't think you've done a good job at making an argument towards them being comparable players. Tarik Cohen could almost certainly never be Tyreek Hill.

 

[averagejoe]

I don't think you've done a good job at making an argument

Ditto.
But that's the beauty of this forum.
We get to share our points of view.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Put me down as one who is looking forward to seeing Cohen and Gabriel on the field at the same time. If Nagy is the offensive guru we're all hoping he is, he'll definitely be calling some plays with those two coming out of the huddle together.