Suns Owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Las Vegas

[Dolemite censored]

Phoenix owner is posturing, playing cities off against each other. Lots of hard core NBA fans here would do anything for a team, but most people here are sick of rising taxes.

 

[Shanemansj13]

He hasn’t played the last 6-7 games or so. Every Cleveland fan would trade for him in a second. Don’t kid yourself.

Sexton and possibly Zion is a good start to another rebuild. Ayton-Booker isn't doing much so far, good potential but we have been saying that for years with the Suns. They have enough young players.

 

[returnofjakedog]

So you’re one of those recent fans that tries to belittle diehard fans based on recent results/titles. Prove me wrong. Are the suns a joke of a franchise based on your limited experience?

Lol! No, I am not a newbie fan trying to belittle anyone (unlike yourself). You make a statement that the Suns are a far superior franchise to the Blazers based on.......???.....not much! You make statements about how Lillard will go down as their best player of all time (and frame it in the form of an insult), which totally disregards the likes of Bill Walton, Clyde Drexler, and Arvydas Sabonis (his impact was far more than just in the NBA).
I don't dislike the Suns. I actually respect the franchise and their history. It is a shame that you don't show that same respect to other franchises or their fans.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Bragging about the Blazers 1 title from 40+ years ago? Excellent!

Not bragging about anything. Not a Blazers fan. Just don't agree with the statement that the Suns are such a far superior franchise to the Blazers.

 

[Mecca]

Damn..

There goes my $6.00 tickets.

It costs twice that just to park at Mercury games.

TUEJAN 8
Sacramento Kings at Phoenix Suns
7:00 PM - Talking Stick Resort Arena, Phoenix, AZ, US
from
$6

 

[Mecca]

Um, why not keep it simple and move the Clippers to Seattle, where I hear Steve Ballmer has some ties to the community.

 

[wazzu31]

Seattle's metropolitan area population is 3.8 million now, with the extended metro area population at 4.8 million, and one of the most financially affluent in the nation. They can support 4 sports if they see fit and rotating NBA and NHL games in one venue is feasible. Also the Chris Hansen arena proposal is still on the table.

So it can be done, but it probably won't be done anytime soon. The NBA wants to punish Seattle for not caving into their ridiculous billionare welfare demands when Stern and Bennett were licking each other's ballsacks.

But the Seattle Center is the main problem and cuts the Seattle Metro area into 700k people. Hockey can thrive in that area because there are a ton of transplant who already love hockey and have given zero fucks about basketball.

And unless someone with money like Ballmer or Jeff Bezos the Chris Hansen arena proposal is dead. OVG put in a no compete clause into the contract with the city. Not an impossible to overcome but it is going to take a hell of a lot money to do that fight.

 

[returnofjakedog]

But the Seattle Center is the main problem and cuts the Seattle Metro area into 700k people. Hockey can thrive in that area because there are a ton of transplant who already love hockey and have given zero fucks about basketball.

And unless someone with money like Ballmer or Jeff Bezos the Chris Hansen arena proposal is dead. OVG put in a no compete clause into the contract with the city. Not an impossible to overcome but it is going to take a hell of a lot money to do that fight.

What do you mean that the Seattle Center cuts the metro area to 700k? That makes no sense.

Also, you can't say that transplants don't care about basketball. A ridiculous statement. Just because there is hockey interest doesn't mean that there isn't basketball interest. Besides, basketball has much deeper roots in Seattle than hockey.

Plus, to my knowledge, Hansen has no legal obligation to abide by the non-competition clause at it is not in accordance to his group. I could be lacking information on that point but....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.king5.com/amp/article?section=news&subsection=local&headline=investor-still-wants-sodo-arena-despite-keyarena-deal&contentId=281-535806814

Of course none of this matters as long as the NBA is hellbent on screwing Seattle.

 

[wazzu31]

What do you mean that the Seattle Center cuts the metro area to 700k? That makes no sense.

Also, you can't say that transplants don't care about basketball. A ridiculous statement. Just because there is hockey interest doesn't mean that there isn't basketball interest. Besides, basketball has much deeper roots in Seattle than hockey.

Plus, to my knowledge, Hansen has no legal obligation to abide by the non-competition clause at it is not in accordance to his group. I could be lacking information on that point but....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.king5.com/amp/article?section=news&subsection=local&headline=investor-still-wants-sodo-arena-despite-keyarena-deal&contentId=281-535806814

Of course none of this matters as long as the NBA is hellbent on screwing Seattle.

The city of Seattle actually is populated around 700 to 800k depending on the numbers. When you have a venue that is as hard to get to as the Seattle Center you destroy the “metro area” which is the only reason Seattle is considered a big market. Which is the entire reason the city under rationale leadership zoned out a stadium district.

Transplants are what they are, fans of other teams. Fans of other hockey team want their own team, hence expansion. Transplants of other basketball teams want their own team which the Sonics never will be an expansion team or their own IMO.

Hansen isn’t obligated per say, but he would have millions of dollars in legal fees to even begin to build an arena right now. A. The Seattle Council voted down the one part of land that he doesn’t own to complete an arena that has a viable entrance or exit. B. OVG has the no compete clause. It is things that can be over come but it would have to take someone with more money or power in the Seattle area than Hansen.

 

[returnofjakedog]

The city of Seattle actually is populated around 700 to 800k depending on the numbers. When you have a venue that is as hard to get to as the Seattle Center you destroy the “metro area” which is the only reason Seattle is considered a big market. Which is the entire reason the city under rationale leadership zoned out a stadium district.

Transplants are what they are, fans of other teams. Fans of other hockey team want their own team, hence expansion. Transplants of other basketball teams want their own team which the Sonics never will be an expansion team or their own IMO.

Hansen isn’t obligated per say, but he would have millions of dollars in legal fees to even begin to build an arena right now. A. The Seattle Council voted down the one part of land that he doesn’t own to complete an arena that has a viable entrance or exit. B. OVG has the no compete clause. It is things that can be over come but it would have to take someone with more money or power in the Seattle area than Hansen.

The logic you are using of the 700 to 800k population is faulty because you can say that about every single stadium venue in every city across the world. Large cities are spread out and any specific location is going to be harder for some to reach than others no matter where you put your arena.

You keep saying that OVG has a non-competition clause but now you say that Hansen doesn't have to abide by it. Please explain how this affects Hansen if his group isn't legally bound to the clause. What am I missing here?

The Seattle city council would/will/is always a problem regardless. Hansen proposed the best deal I have ever seen to a city and those numbnuts shot it down to spend more money on the Key which will still have some of the same problems it had previously (lack of parking revenue since all the the parking in the area is privately owned, and lack of amenities since the arena sits in the middle of a public park, etc.)

As stated, all of this remains irrelevant as long as the NBA is set on punishing Seattle for not giving huge corporate welfare to the lying shitbags in Bennett's group and their ass ass kissing lackey Stern.

 

[wazzu31]

The logic you are using of the 700 to 800k population is faulty because you can say that about every single stadium venue in every city across the world. Large cities are spread out and any specific location is going to be harder for some to reach than others no matter where you put your arena.

You keep saying that OVG has a non-competition clause but now you say that Hansen doesn't have to abide by it. Please explain how this affects Hansen if his group isn't legally bound to the clause. What am I missing here?

The Seattle city council would/will/is always a problem regardless. Hansen proposed the best deal I have ever seen to a city and those numbnuts shot it down to spend more money on the Key which will still have some of the same problems it had previously (lack of parking revenue since all the the parking in the area is privately owned, and lack of amenities since the arena sits in the middle of a public park, etc.)

As stated, all of this remains irrelevant as long as the NBA is set on punishing Seattle for not giving huge corporate welfare to the lying shitbags in Bennett's group and their ass ass kissing lackey Stern.

Every single other metropolitan city that houses a sports franchise has much better infrastructure to get fans to and from stadiums/arenas than what the Seattle Center has. The numbers aren’t faulty, it’s just logical. The Seahawks, Mariners, Sounders and Huskies all have 99% of their fan base that doesn’t live within city limits. Which is why Thursday and Friday night games are bitched at by Husky fans. The city and county set up the Stadium district because it is easier to get to for fans and an easier area for the police to help with security and traffic. The Sounders and Mariners had a game at the same time last year (70,000 people) and it was estimated around 30 minutes for most people to get to the freeway. Adele had a concert at the Key (roughly 15,000-20,000) and it was roughly 3 hours to get to the freeway.

I say Hansen can get around it but it will cost money and the will for the legal battle, which was one of the main reasons OVG was streamlined through. Once Ballmer left there just isn’t enough money in the group to challenge in court the legality of it, which 99% of judges would find illegal. Hansen would’ve had standing to sue the City of Seattle when they were negotiating with OVG while his MOU hadn’t expired. The group as a whole wasn’t going to have enough to fight the City, let alone sue the City and challenge OVG’s poison pills now.

You are right it is all kind of whatever. As much as I hate the NBA is gone, there really isn’t anything the NBA or David Stern did that was wrong. Safeco Field and Seahawks Stadium passed by essentially illegal means of voting, Barry Ackerley was screwed over by the city and that is why we ended up with a crappy arena. Looking at it from an outsiders view every single reason the Sonics are not here lies squarely on the citizens of Seattle and their politicians which 99% of the voting populace didn’t care about sports. The demographic has changed dramatically and unfortunately for NBA the demographic that has moved in is more NHL friendly. The NHL essentially was begged to get raped by Seattle in order to get a team here.

For any Sonics fan (IMO) there are two options, either Ballmer and his money move the Clippers with Chris Hansen’s land or Jeff Bezos uses his money and uses Chris Hansen’s land, buys a team or an expansion team and dares the city to go bankrupt if they fight him. Fans and cities of other teams are idiotic thinking Seattle is a bargaining chip as there is no bargaining as I can’t see any smart business person is dumb enough to move to a city and a location where the NBA team would be the 4th main tenant and rely 75% of their revenue on the television deal.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Every single other metropolitan city that houses a sports franchise has much better infrastructure to get fans to and from stadiums/arenas than what the Seattle Center has. The numbers aren’t faulty, it’s just logical. The Seahawks, Mariners, Sounders and Huskies all have 99% of their fan base that doesn’t live within city limits. Which is why Thursday and Friday night games are bitched at by Husky fans. The city and county set up the Stadium district because it is easier to get to for fans and an easier area for the police to help with security and traffic. The Sounders and Mariners had a game at the same time last year (70,000 people) and it was estimated around 30 minutes for most people to get to the freeway. Adele had a concert at the Key (roughly 15,000-20,000) and it was roughly 3 hours to get to the freeway.

I say Hansen can get around it but it will cost money and the will for the legal battle, which was one of the main reasons OVG was streamlined through. Once Ballmer left there just isn’t enough money in the group to challenge in court the legality of it, which 99% of judges would find illegal. Hansen would’ve had standing to sue the City of Seattle when they were negotiating with OVG while his MOU hadn’t expired. The group as a whole wasn’t going to have enough to fight the City, let alone sue the City and challenge OVG’s poison pills now.

You are right it is all kind of whatever. As much as I hate the NBA is gone, there really isn’t anything the NBA or David Stern did that was wrong. Safeco Field and Seahawks Stadium passed by essentially illegal means of voting, Barry Ackerley was screwed over by the city and that is why we ended up with a crappy arena. Looking at it from an outsiders view every single reason the Sonics are not here lies squarely on the citizens of Seattle and their politicians which 99% of the voting populace didn’t care about sports. The demographic has changed dramatically and unfortunately for NBA the demographic that has moved in is more NHL friendly. The NHL essentially was begged to get raped by Seattle in order to get a team here.

For any Sonics fan (IMO) there are two options, either Ballmer and his money move the Clippers with Chris Hansen’s land or Jeff Bezos uses his money and uses Chris Hansen’s land, buys a team or an expansion team and dares the city to go bankrupt if they fight him. Fans and cities of other teams are idiotic thinking Seattle is a bargaining chip as there is no bargaining as I can’t see any smart business person is dumb enough to move to a city and a location where the NBA team would be the 4th main tenant and rely 75% of their revenue on the television deal.

Some good points. Though I would disagree that every metropolitan area has better transportation. In fact I know of a few that are as bad or possibly worse. I do agree that it isn't good. P.S. I've been to many concerts at the Key and never had a 2 to 3 hour leave time. In fact I usually got out of there relatively quick (at least not hours) but Adele fans could well be retarded so........

And I disagree that Ackerley got screwed. It was more a matter of timing. The remodel was agreed upon and approved by everyone. The NBA, Ackerley, and city all thought it was great. The problem was more that almost immediately after the remodel was completed the NBA arena demands changed and suddenly the necessity of luxury boxes, shopping amenities, etc. but the Key didn't have enough of this. You can't come back 10-12 years after and demand another remodel, especially under the terms the NBA and that lying piece of crap Bennett required. It has to be 20-25 years before the billionaire can start crying about it.

NBA is a bigger business and has much deeper roots in Seattle than hockey. It wouldn't be a "4th wheel", and it certainly wouldn't rely on tv revenue for 75% of their profit (you are pulling a number out of the air there).

 

[wazzu31]

Some good points. Though I would disagree that every metropolitan area has better transportation. In fact I know of a few that are as bad or possibly worse. I do agree that it isn't good. P.S. I've been to many concerts at the Key and never had a 2 to 3 hour leave time. In fact I usually got out of there relatively quick (at least not hours) but Adele fans could well be retarded so........

And I disagree that Ackerley got screwed. It was more a matter of timing. The remodel was agreed upon and approved by everyone. The NBA, Ackerley, and city all thought it was great. The problem was more that almost immediately after the remodel was completed the NBA arena demands changed and suddenly the necessity of luxury boxes, shopping amenities, etc. but the Key didn't have enough of this. You can't come back 10-12 years after and demand another remodel, especially under the terms the NBA and that lying piece of crap Bennett required. It has to be 20-25 years before the billionaire can start crying about it.

NBA is a bigger business and has much deeper roots in Seattle than hockey. It wouldn't be a "4th wheel", and it certainly wouldn't rely on tv revenue for 75% of their profit (you are pulling a number out of the air there).

I guess I would like to know your route then, the millions of dollars the city spent on Mercer did squat (essentially a bike lane) for getting out of the Seattle Center and Mercer is the main way to get out of Seattle going South which is 90% of where fans go.

We can agree to disagree with Ackerly. He had a deal set up for a NBA/NHL arena on the property that is now Safeco Field but the city at the last minute wanted Seattle Center and he didn’t want to fund it and so the Coliseum ended up remodeled at 1/4 of what it should have been. Key Arena was remodeled in a way to turn it into a Wrigley Field of sports venues. Great seating for fans but zero ability for actually money making suites or seats.

We can agree to disagree on infrastructure as I will plead ignorance with other metropolitan cities outside of NYC, Chicago, Philly, Portland and Salt Lake City but in those cities it was a thousands times easier to get to the venue that the Seattle Center ever was before Amazon took over Queen Anne.

I could be and truly hope I am wrong but every single thing involved with the renovation of Key Arena includes the death nail in basketball ever returning unless someone like Ballmer relocates or Bezo’s buys an expansion team and dares the city and OVG to sue them over owned property in the stadium district.

My last issue with the Seattle Center is why would any business person or group ever try to own a team who pays rent for a facility where the WNBA team is paid to play there and they’d receive 1/3 of what they should since OVG and the city receive the profit of the event they host. Howard Schultz got shafted and wanted more when he got half.

 

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