So was it a TD or a pick?

[CalamityX11]

Not true. The way I heard it explained, if both have possession in the end zone, it doens't matter who has "more" possession. Tate had simultaneous possession, so it's a TD.

The mistake, apparently, was not calling OPI.

not calling OPI is an issue but I will question and argue that it was not a simultaneous catch. I believe that's what they "ruled" it as but it was incorrect to rule simultaneous period.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

I really don't think Tate had ANY realisitc control of the ball. He may have been touching it, but touching a ball doesn't mean it is yours.

 

[abaskin18]

I really don't think Tate had ANY realisitc control of the ball. He may have been touching it, but touching a ball doesn't mean it is yours.

I think he had more than "a hand on it" but it wasn't nearly enough to be considered possession and certainly wasn't timely enough to be considered simultaneous possession according to the rule.

 

[threelittleturds]

The more I watch this, it isn't as terrible as everyone is making it out to be.

Tate has his left hand on it, his right hand on Jennings arm, he then re-grasps with his right hand and before they hit the ground Tate has pulled the ball and Jennings to his body too. How much more of a simultaneous catch does it need to be? This is slow-motion and you can see that before they both hit the ground, they both have it. It's just that the bounce off the ground helped Jennings pull it a little closer to him.

 

[MHSL82]

The more I watch this, it isn't as terrible as everyone is making it out to be.

Tate has his left hand on it, his right hand on Jennings arm, he then re-grasps with his right hand and before they hit the ground Tate has pulled the ball and Jennings to his body too. How much more of a simultaneous catch does it need to be? This is slow-motion and you can see that before they both hit the ground, they both have it. It's just that the bounce off the ground helped Jennings pull it a little closer to him.

That definitely is the best video for it, for both teams. The others were better for Green Bay. Like Rex, I'd like to see the feet.

 

[scotsman1948]

it was a pick

 

[abaskin18]

The more I watch this, it isn't as terrible as everyone is making it out to be.

Tate has his left hand on it, his right hand on Jennings arm, he then re-grasps with his right hand and before they hit the ground Tate has pulled the ball and Jennings to his body too. How much more of a simultaneous catch does it need to be? This is slow-motion and you can see that before they both hit the ground, they both have it. It's just that the bounce off the ground helped Jennings pull it a little closer to him.

To me it's clear Jennings had full possession prior to Tate having whatever level of possession you want to call it (full, shared, partial, etc) when they hit the ground. Per the rule on simultaneous possession, it can't happen sequentially.

 

[NinerSickness]

To me it's clear Jennings had full possession prior to Tate having whatever level of possession you want to call it (full, shared, partial, etc) when they hit the ground. Per the rule on simultaneous possession, it can't happen sequentially.

Well, to establish possession, one has to catch AND come down with the football with possession the entire time. It's not like a play when you already have possession and you break the plane for an instant. Remember the Calvin Johnson non-TD against the Bears last year?

Just like the tuck rule controversy, it was called correctly. What they missed was the OPI (which I've actually yet to see; I didn't see the angle with the alleged OPI).

 

[abaskin18]

Well, to establish possession, one has to catch AND come down with the football with possession the entire time. It's not like a play when you already have possession and you break the plane for an instant. Remember the Calvin Johnson non-TD against the Bears last year?

Just like the tuck rule controversy, it was called correctly. What they missed was the OPI (which I've actually yet to see; I didn't see the angle with the alleged OPI).

You're describing the rule for a completing a catch which entails gaining possession first, getting both feet (or the equivalent via elbow, knee, etc) down in bounds second, and finally maintaining that possession through the entire catch. Receivers establish possession and don't complete the catch all the time.

It was incorrectly ruled simultaneous possession as possession did not begin simultaneously.

 

[SY8goat]

Well, to establish possession, one has to catch AND come down with the football with possession the entire time. It's not like a play when you already have possession and you break the plane for an instant. Remember the Calvin Johnson non-TD against the Bears last year?

Just like the tuck rule controversy, it was called correctly. What they missed was the OPI (which I've actually yet to see; I didn't see the angle with the alleged OPI).

Is that you Golden Tate?

Welcome to the SportsHoopla!

 

[deep9er]

Well, to establish possession, one has to catch AND come down with the football with possession the entire time. It's not like a play when you already have possession and you break the plane for an instant. Remember the Calvin Johnson non-TD against the Bears last year?

Just like the tuck rule controversy, it was called correctly. What they missed was the OPI (which I've actually yet to see; I didn't see the angle with the alleged OPI).

Jennings had both arms completely around the football, with the football secured against his chest. he held the football closely all the way thru, i did not see the ball bobble or any way get loose. his hip was the first body part to touch ground.

Tate's arm was wrapped around Jennings body, and his HANDS were on the ball. it was only after they hit the ground and about 2-3 seconds lapsed, did Tate roll Jennings over toward him. so by the time the ref's ran to the ball, Jennings was facing Tate a little more than when they first hit the ground. but even then, Tate didn't get all of his arms around the ball like Jennings who STILL had it.

so if you consider one's hand on the ball as simultaneous, then it was simultaneous. IMO it was an INT.

the OPI was clear as day, clearly flagrant. it wasn't a push but a hard SHOVE.

 

[NinerSickness]

You're describing the rule for a completing a catch which entails gaining possession first, getting both feet (or the equivalent via elbow, knee, etc) down in bounds second, and finally maintaining that possession through the entire catch. Receivers establish possession and don't complete the catch all the time.

I don't understand the difference, so I'll have to look at this closer & come back to it...

 

[abaskin18]

I don't understand the difference, so I'll have to look at this closer & come back to it...

Just think of a play on the sidelines where the receiver establishes possession but can can't get his feet down in bounds. Possession established, but it's not a completed catch. Or, like you also cited, Megatron's non-TD: established possession, but did not maintain it through the catch.

Establishing possession is just the first part in a completed catch, but that's when the possession has to be simultaneous for the simultaneous possession rule to be in play. Jennings would have still needed to come down in bounds, maintaining control of the ball throughout his landing for the catch to be completed, but to me it's clear that Tate's "possession" came sequentially, not simultaneously.

 

[NinerSickness]

so if you consider one's hand on the ball as simultaneous, then it was simultaneous.

Well, Trent Dilfer did on the radio today (I think it was he), so I was deferring to his interpretation of the rule. Of course, I'm not an NFL referee.

 

[threelittleturds]

I think Jennings had more of the ball, but Tate definitely had enough of it to pull the ball into his body, along with Jennings, to cause doubt for the officials. I fully expected it to be ruled an INT, and was surprised they ruled it a TD. There was enough there to create doubt for the officials.

Although, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving bunch of assholes than the Packers and their fans. What a bunch of crybaby idiots.

Was the integrity of the game in danger when the officials completely screwed the 49ers by picking up the flag for a block in the back that almost spring-boarded the Packers to victory? Oh no, the integrity of the game was just fine because it helped the Packers when they needed it. And, this was a play where there was no doubt that a block in the back occurred.

I don't see much difference between those plays at all. Except for a bunch of assholes acting like they were cheated when it went against them, but being all nonchalant and dismissive about it helping them when it went in their favor.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

Well, Trent Dilfer did on the radio today (I think it was he), so I was deferring to his interpretation of the rule. Of course, I'm not an NFL referee.

A former ref on the radio out here (23 years in the NFL including 8 championship games and 4 superbowls) said that was a routine call and was a pick. He said that there are countless times a guy catches the ball with another guys hand in there around the ball and it the guy with the ball in his chest who gets possession. I will see if I can find the audio.

 

[deep9er]

Well, Trent Dilfer did on the radio today (I think it was he), so I was deferring to his interpretation of the rule. Of course, I'm not an NFL referee.

yes, obviously some will interpret it as simultaneous and thats fine.

for me it was an INT, and won't keep repeating my reasons why. cause it is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

This link is to my last comment. The guys hosting the radio show are terrible and annoy me, but you will get the insight from the ref.

Mason and Ireland : 09/25 [hr3] - ESPN Los Angeles

 

[abaskin18]

This link is to my last comment. The guys hosting the radio show are terrible and annoy me, but you will get the insight from the ref.

Mason and Ireland : 09/25 [hr3] - ESPN Los Angeles

M & I really are the worst. Regardless, thanks for the link.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

M & I really are the worst. Regardless, thanks for the link.

Yeah, I can't stand them. I got on the air with them once and got to talk some shit after the Giants beat the Dodgers. It was a good time.