So say we use the non exclusive tag

[Skin'EmAll]

@Stymietee , @deanpet21 , @Skin'EmAll @Breed


Gentleman, serious question here.

Assume we just dealt Kirk. We got the number #2 from the niners as some fans are hoping.

Deep down, do you really believe we wont turn right around and draft a QB in the first round of this up coming draft?? Forget weather or not we think any of them are actually worth a first rounder.

Do we really think dealing Kirk will NOT lead directly to us drafting a QB in the first round, no later than the 2nd round of this draft??

I guess Im asking if you think we would honestly forgo QB in the top three picks in this case despite it being a considered very poor QB class.

I'm honestly thinking no. They would go BPA with both picks and even if they win the superbowl they go draft a QB in 2018.
"Redskins Logic"

 

[reptec101]

I can't read all the post before but ill jump in on original question posed, but lets first start with this. KC is kinda pissing me off a bit. I understand it isn't him persay but dude,, get off the high horse. You're a good QB but not an elite QB,, at least not yet. Dude threw up all over himself in that playoff game against the Giants (yes it was a playoff game).. great regular season but still no playoffs. Dude needs to stay put and sign a reasonable contract. I believe he and his agent are holding the Redskins hostage because of the leverage he has. Snyder has looked the fool way to many times,, damned if he wants too again. What a fucking pickle they're in and all because they didn't know what they had after 4 long years. Will not be surprised with anything at this point this org does. We've never had a QB in 20 plus years worth dog shit and they finally have one and they have no clue what to do with him. Do u sign him,, do u tag him,.. do u just piss in the wind and hope it don't blow back on ya.

Watson= RG3 all over him. Same model car different year... few added bells and whistles. Please don't get fooled again.

McCoy= mediocre below average. Cellar dwellers. Anyone who thinks Colt can carry this team is more fucked up than any Cowboy fan.... yes even UK Cowpie... and yes,,, I realize that's pretty damn fucked up.

Fuck drafting any QB,, we got one who can win,, who has gotten better every year that he has played. Never gets hurt... always in any game. We are relevant again with him as QB. They blew it last year. Had their prom queen in the back seat of their fathers chevy willing to spread her legs and they wanted to go out with her a couple more times before digging in to the goods. Well now she can date anyone and they're looking pretty pathetic trying to get her to take down her panties again so they can slide in for a nice love affair.

Bottom line to all of this. Ya fucked up.. pay the man and move on. ya aint gonna find better in this draft or FA.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Took a moment to look at some free agents and here is my preliminary list. Keep in mind that I'm not targeting all of them, but listing them in the event that my top choices can't be bought in (top choices will be denoted with this **)

Kirk Cousins** (QB-WAS) Gotta keep Kirk, but if he prices himself out of our working budget, I'm prepared to move on.

Eric Berry**(S-KC) My #1 pickup goal, I'm pulling out all stops to get him, if he's available.

Jordan Cameron (TE-MIA) Liked this guy at USC and will need to be prepared if we decide to pass on resigning V. Davis. Can't trust Paul to remain healthy.

Malcolm Smith**(ILB-OAK) Definitely fill a need for us and this guy has something that we truly lack at the
position....speed!

Dontari Poe DT (KC)** We need to totally revamp out front line guys, 'nuff said.

Ron Leary G (Dall) ** I might have to pay a few extra bucks for him, but after Berry he's #2 on my list.

Cordarrelle Patterson WR (Minn) Big flashy wideout with a bunch of upside, If I get him he'll live in front of the jugs machine until his hands bleed. (catches the ball too often with his body)

Terrelle Pryor WR (CLE) There a lot of upside left with this guy, could help us a bunch. Gonna cost to get him though.

Bennie Logan DT (PHI)** another top priority for me, again needing complete overhaul, 'nuff said.

Alex Okafor OLB (ARI)


The following guys I would be interested in for the right price (some have notes attached with my thoughts on them)


Justin Gilbert CB (Pitt)

Stephon Gilmore CB (Buff)

D.J. Hayden CB (OAK)

Chandler Jones OLB(ARI) will take a real look at this guy.

D.J. Swearinger SS (ARI) I wanted to draft him then, time to correct that mistake.

Le'Veon Bell** RB (Pitt) NOT a chance in hell that we get him but I'd make it known that I'm interested if possible.

Matt Barkley QB (CHI) We have to upgrade at QB (This is a move to upgrade the BU spot)

Chris Chester G..........NAW just f'ing with you to see if you were paying attention

Just for kicks, I've been working on an mock off-season. I'll comment on who l like from your list and thanks for sharing. 1st list - everyone except Malcolm smith and Logan. Again, I haven't done the film work but Smith does not seem suited for 3-4 duties. Could break down from having to shed so many blocks, but should excel on 3rd down. Logan, had a bad year, heard before this year he is a top run stuffer. Rather small to me for a NT.
Everyone else looks worthy of consideration, and could make a good contribution.
2nd List.
I think Vontae Davis will be cut and is a good option but if not Gilmore should be considered.
Gilmore had a "bad" year and still had solid numbers and looks good in man to man. Hayden had great potential but i think he never recovered from that chest injury/operation. Chandler is getting franchised, and I have no thoughts on Swearinger and Barkley.

I have similar FA targets which is leading me to mock Rueben Foster or Zach Cunningham as #17 in my mock draft. Don't know if I got your thoughts about trying to trade for Sheldon Richardson?

 

[ehb5]

ok i have asked about other options

lets start with what we have , colt mccoy qb , nice BU qb but couldnt hold the job in cleveland his career record as a starter is 8 and 17

Suds right now this guy cant lead a pro team , not saying he cant grow but he really isnt an viable option

now lets look at the draft , this class is very weak . watson looks like RG3 , trubinsky has one year as a starter , kizer has been erratic mahomes is unproven as well

now lets look at garrapolo pats want a 1st rounder for him and we would have to sign him long term . small sample size so its a risk and only 2 career starts but probably the best option

aj mccarron again this is a guy we need to trade for . what is the asking price ? he has started a mere 3 games so we still have to see how he reacts after the nfl has seen him cycle through once . this guy has been sitting behind andy dalton which many people believe is avg at best . yet the argument is he is better then a 2 time 4000 yd passer and we wont take a dip . i am not convinced he can take us to the playoffs year in and year out

matt mcgloin he has started 7 career games , he has 1 career win and we are supposed to but this guy can take us to the playoffs year in and year out ? another guy we would have to trade for

nick foles 20 - 16 career record , after his great season in a fluke offense the nfl got film on him and eventually he was benched , again another guy we would have to trade for . he is the poster child for what the above 3 qbs we would have to trade for could be

jay cutler 68 and 71 career record 33 years old a turnover machine that has had injury issue , good physical tools but lacking in other areas , this is a stop gap

tony romo if you just needed a qb to win a super bowl quickly he is an option he is 36 and he has been hurt for 2 years he has a price tag too and right now we would need to trade for him

ryan fitzpatrick 34 46 69 and 1 career record journeyman stopgap at best

geno smith would have to trade for career 12 18 record benched in favor for the above journeyman

tyrod taylor 14 -14 career record not sure he is better then KC but bills have soured on him in favor of cardale jones , again we would have to trade for him so what price ?

now my question is why is it insane to say the qb we have is pretty darn good and is in our best interest to resign this guy

Id take Trubisky, Kizer, and Mahomes over Garropolo. (And over Goff or Wentz). Watson is my least favorite of the 4 but the rg3 comps are a bit lazy.

McCarron will probably take way more than we want to give in order to get him. Im not a big fan of his anyways.

McGloin is at best just a guy IMO.

Foles - hell no.

Fitzpatrick - hell no times a million.

Geno - as a backup?

Cutler - I like him but hed have to be a cheap stopgap we can move on from easily which seems unlikely.

Romo - Honestly Romo is great but he doesnt fit this teams timeline.

Tyrod - Tyrod is the best option to keep us competitive next year. He could be reasonably priced, productive, and is still young.

 

[deanpet21]

@Stymietee , @deanpet21 , @Skin'EmAll @Breed


Gentleman, serious question here.

Assume we just dealt Kirk. We got the number #2 from the niners as some fans are hoping.

Deep down, do you really believe we wont turn right around and draft a QB in the first round of this up coming draft?? Forget weather or not we think any of them are actually worth a first rounder.

Do we really think dealing Kirk will NOT lead directly to us drafting a QB in the first round, no later than the 2nd round of this draft??

I guess Im asking if you think we would honestly forgo QB in the top three picks in this case despite it being a considered very poor QB class.

Jesus Christ Shark I said two first round picks and and offer of over 80Mg I would let him go. Let me know when you understand this.

 

[Sharkinva]

Jesus Christ Shark I said two first round picks and and offer of over 80Mg I would let him go. Let me know when you understand this.

And I have said dealing Kirk for two first rounders and to save some cap space will drastically change our off season plans and likely the direction of the franchise. Apparently you think its worth it for the draft picks and the cap space savings are how you think its justified.


But you didnt answer the question. Do you seriously think if we deal Kirk we WONT draft a QB high in this coming draft. Its a yes or no question dean. If we deal Kirk, will we draft a QB early in the 2017 draft.

 

[deanpet21]

And I have said dealing Kirk for two first rounders and to save some cap space will drastically change our off season plans and likely the direction of the franchise. Apparently you think its worth it for the draft picks and the cap space savings are how you think its justified.


But you didnt answer the question. Do you seriously think if we deal Kirk we WONT draft a QB high in this coming draft. Its a yes or no question dean. If we deal Kirk, will we draft a QB early in the 2017 draft.

I can see us drafting Kizner at #17 but not at #2. We have a ton of flexibility with the draft picks and the extra money we save by not signing KC to the franchise tag or a long term deal.

 

[Sharkinva]

I can see us drafting Kizner at #17 but not at #2. We have a ton of flexibility with the draft picks and the extra money we save by not signing KC to the franchise tag or a long term deal.

So one, you admit we would probably draft a QB in this situation. An likely high in the draft.

And come on dude, Kizer isnt going to be there at 17 in all likeliness. You would have atleast 3 teams not named Washington neding a QB.

Sure who ever got Kirk wouldnt need a QB, assuming its the niners... you still have the Bears, Jets and posibly the Bills unless they hang onto Taylor.

And seriously, if we are going to draft a QB in this situation, you really think Bruce is going to risk some one else drafting the QB we want in order to take a defensive player at #2??

 

[deanpet21]

So one, you admit we would probably draft a QB in this situation. An likely high in the draft.

And come on dude, Kizer isnt going to be there at 17 in all likeliness. You would have atleast 3 teams not named Washington neding a QB.

Sure who ever got Kirk wouldnt need a QB, assuming its the niners... you still have the Bears, Jets and posibly the Bills unless they hang onto Taylor.

And seriously, if we are going to draft a QB in this situation, you really think Bruce is going to risk some one else drafting the QB we want in order to take a defensive player at #2??

Of course Kizer will be there at #17. You are not factoring in the FA QBs who will become starters for some QB needy teams. #17 is not a high pick to draft a QB. Plus im just guessing. We can wait on a Qb until next years draft or in the later rounds. You just don't know.

What I do know is that Allen at #2 and #17 plus FA and 2 first next year. We will be a stacked team.

 

[Sharkinva]

Of course Kizer will be there at #17. You are not factoring in the FA QBs who will become starters for some QB needy teams. #17 is not a high pick to draft a QB. Plus im just guessing. We can wait on a Qb until next years draft or in the later rounds. You just don't know.

What I do know is that Allen at #2 and #17 plus FA and 2 first next year. We will be a stacked team.

Just like the Rams right?? And if we wait til next year, I would think there is a better than even chance gruden gets fired.

 

[skinz2winz]

I sure wish we could start a few more scattered Cousins strings! Dad, can we move the Cousins talk to 1 string now?

 

[Sharkinva]

I sure wish we could start a few more scattered Cousins strings! Dad, can we move the Cousins talk to 1 string now?

sadly Cousins talk will likely dominate for the next 12 days at least. By then we will at least know if the team tagged him or not. And until we know what we are doing at QB, everything else does kind of take a back seat.

 

[skinz2winz]

sadly Cousins talk will likely dominate for the next 12 days at least. By then we will at least know if the team tagged him or not. And until we know what we are doing at QB, everything else does kind of take a back seat.

If he is tagged Shark, your line of thought is Cousins is gone, correct?

 

[skinsdad62]

my question is this , if you deal KC for the 2 nd overall pick and you draft a qb , arent you spinning wheels ?

i mean the talking point is let him go and build the team up better and then one of those vaunted picks goes back into plugging a hole we have already plugged and we still need to build the team up around the new qb

 

[Sharkinva]

If he is tagged Shark, your line of thought is Cousins is gone, correct?

At some point yes. The question becomes, will we try and deal him now, or will he sign the tender and walk next off season. They have had over a year to decide if they want him long term. They should have known what the likely cost of a deal would be this year, and odds are they have known for a while what Cousins is asking for. If they havent hammered out a long term deal by now, I dont think it will happen.

So if he is tagged, I dont think its a matter of if we will lose Cousins, but when will we lose him. And will we get anything in return.

 

[skinsdad62]

I sure wish we could start a few more scattered Cousins strings! Dad, can we move the Cousins talk to 1 string now?

as bad as it is those threads are still playing out and of course country will add 4 more today alone

 

[Sharkinva]

my question is this , if you deal KC for the 2 nd overall pick and you draft a qb , arent you spinning wheels ?

i mean the talking point is let him go and build the team up better and then one of those vaunted picks goes back into plugging a hole we have already plugged and we still need to build the team up around the new qb

BUt if you spin your wheels really really fast, and make some quick turns... its much more exciting than simply paying Kirk, building around him for the next three years or more. A key component to winning off the field is having a boat load of draft picks, and signing lots of big named free agents.

Signing Kirk doesnt give us either of those.

 

[skinz2winz]

At some point yes. The question becomes, will we try and deal him now, or will he sign the tender and walk next off season. They have had over a year to decide if they want him long term. They should have known what the likely cost of a deal would be this year, and odds are they have known for a while what Cousins is asking for. If they havent hammered out a long term deal by now, I dont think it will happen.

So if he is tagged, I dont think its a matter of if we will lose Cousins, but when will we lose him. And will we get anything in return.

Agreed but how will the ORG look if no trade can be made and he is a lame duck on this 1 year deal? The Skins will be renown for just F*cking up everything on all levels. This whole process has been hamstrung by something/someone who should have to accept responsibility and address the fans once it happens. The constant in this the past few years has been BA. I'm starting to really not care for BA anymore.

 

[Sportster 72]

I don't see a need to combine threads, if you don't want to read one then don't.

Anything we are reading about Cousins has been brought up 4957u345739753535345 times anyhow. That is what folks do on forums.

 

[Sharkinva]

Agreed but how will the ORG look if no trade can be made and he is a lame duck on this 1 year deal? The Skins will be renown for just F*cking up everything on all levels. This whole process has been hamstrung by something/someone who should have to accept responsibility and address the fans once it happens. The constant in this the past few years has been BA. I'm starting to really not care for BA anymore.

I think this goes alot deeper than just Allen. I think ego's have gotten involved here on both sides. I think had Kirk failed back in 2015, Gruden would have been fired and Griffin would have gotten that fifth year here under a new coach. I think deep down some one in Ashburn feels that paying Kirk is just throwing salt on an old wound that is the Draft trade failure of 2012. So yea I think Allen is a big part of the problem, and I think Danny is probably feeding into it a bit as well.

Bottom line is the four headed monster Coach/GM/Team President/Owner are not on the same page here. People saying its too much money are forgetting some of the massive amounts we have flushed down the crapper and that our owner treats millions like we treat pennies when its something he wants.

And as I mentioned before... Kirk might just lack that excitement factor that winning off the field brings.