So glad Brown chose Lewis over Coughlin.

[flamingrey]

No, he is not "insanely talented". He isn't even top 10.

 

[vancelot23]

There are some pretty good WRs who aren't top 10. He's very good and more talented than most WRs.

 

[ckhokie]

If you don't think Victor Cruz is insanely talented then you are crazy.

That's not the point. And for the record, I do think he is.

You said that 'Coughlin does less with more talent.' Victor Cruz wasn't even drafted.

To me, Coughlin is doing quite a bit with nothing in that regard... At the end of the day, it was his call to give Cruz a shot when no one else did. So your argument holds little water

 

[cincygrad]

Cruz was an undrafted free agent. He's a great story and he definitely shows talent, but let's not pretend he was a can't miss prospect.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Cruz is a very good WR, but I don't think he is in the top tier of WR's in terms of pure talent alone. He's not a WR that, to me, could thrive with just about any QB back there. Fitz does it year in and out with some bad (and some really good) QB's, and Calvin could make any QB look better.

It would be interesting to see if he would thrive on another team with another QB....but, that's no knock on him, because right now...he's a very, very good WR for his team, and that's all that matters right now.

 

[Cincyfan78]

That's not the point. And for the record, I do think he is.

You said that 'Coughlin does less with more talent.' Victor Cruz wasn't even drafted.

To me, Coughlin is doing quite a bit with nothing in that regard... At the end of the day, it was his call to give Cruz a shot when no one else did. So your argument holds little water

didn't the giants have like an insane rash of injuries to start the year? Lost a few guys for the year, and a few others for quite some time? Or, am I just imagining this?

 

[vancelot23]

Cruz is like Marques Colston. Teams just missed on the guy. Is he as purely talented as Fitz or Megatron? No. But he's very talented and very good.

 

[ckhokie]

The point is, Coughlin does a great job with what he's got.

Case in point:
-Getting Victor Cruz on the field, and signing undrafted guys like Mark Herzlich who actually see the field as well
-Sticking with Eli, who up until this year, everyone shit on, even though he had won a super bowl
-Winning with almost no discernible running game. Brandon Jacobs sucks and his attitude off the field sucks, and Bradshaw is nothing to write home about

not to mention he's easily the best in the league when it comes to coaches challenges and does it all under the microscope of NY, where even after a super bowl, fans were calling for his head.

 

[flamingrey]

There are some pretty good WRs who aren't top 10. He's very good and more talented than most WRs.

I agree, he's pretty good. But he's playing great. He's a whopping 6'0" and ran an average 4.49 second 40. There's little "insanely talented" about him. Coughlin has gotten much more with less talent.

 

[vancelot23]

Size doesn't equal talent. But I'm not sure talented is the right word. Is he as talented as DeSean Jackson? No, but he's a better WR.

 

[flamingrey]

Size along with other physical abilities such as speed are a factor in talent.

I would say someone who is 6'4 and runs a 4.49 sec 40 is more talented than someone who is 6'0 and runs a 4.49 sec 40.

 

[vancelot23]

I wouldn't. Jerry Rice wasn't talented?

 

[flamingrey]

Physically, compared to most receivers, no. Not even close.

His work ethic along with his superior talents at running routes and the glue he used on his hands made him what he was.

 

[vancelot23]

I would say things like route running, hands, jumping ability, intelligence, along with speed would encompass the word talent. Just height and speed leaves a lot out and falls under physical skills, not talent.

 

[cincygrad]

Yes, we've all heard stories about Jerry Rice's "physical limitations."

But remember - He was drafted in the first round. He was evaluated as physically gifted and a potential star - That's why he was taken in the first round.

Victor Cruz was not judged to have 1st round talent. Or 2nd, or 3rd, etc., etc...... Granted, he might have been immature, or a late bloomer, but the scouts weren't overly impressed with him. It's more likely that he benefits from working with Coughlin and Eli than the opposite explanation that he makes Eli and Tom look good.

Other receivers that benefited from Tom and Eli include Steve Smith (did nothing after leaving) and Mario Maningham (judged as flawed coming out of UM he has been a nice receiver).

 

[flamingrey]

I would say things like route running, hands, jumping ability, intelligence, along with speed would encompass the word talent. Just height and speed leaves a lot out and falls under physical skills, not talent.

To an extent.

E.g. You'd expect a shorter player to be faster than a player who has 4" on him - just as a general baseline. For a taller player to have the quickness a shorter player does would mean that the taller player is more physically talented than the norm (in this case the shorter player).

And as you've stated yourself, speed is a factor of talent. Height then too must be a factor whereever applicable.

As the above pertains to Cruz, given his short height and average speed along with his lack of bulkiness that would otherwise give him a different advantage, I would say that he's physically less talented than your average player.

 

[vancelot23]

I would say less physically gifted, not talented, but I have no problem with your interpretation either. Just my opinion.

 

[flamingrey]

In the context of Coughlin's impact on Cruz, whether you call it physically gifted or physically talented doesn't matter. In essence, Cruz is less physically gifted than the average receiver. The fact that he's played so well despite that is a testament to what Coughlin has done (as well as Eli) as grad has stated.

 

[vancelot23]

I agree with that.

 

[kramer1]

Ocho was a Jerry Rice type player. If Ocho had Montana and Young....he'd be a HOF'er and one of the best all time too.