SMGM draft trends

[Breed]

No IM talking about Johnson.

Oh, OK. Serious question here. Was David Johnson really on anyone else's radar aside the Arozona Cardinals? That just seems to be an outstanding pick and one of those diamond in the rough type deals. Where instead of saying every other team blew it. The Cardinals just did a great job.

 

[Stymietee]

Drafting a later round QB Is a strategy and a scouting/drafting philosophy that comes from the Ron Wolf coaching tree, of which Scot is a proponent, granted with his own twist and take on things.

Here's a relevant article regarding some of that
Green Bay Packers GM Ron Wolf's Draft, Free Agency | The MMQB with Peter King

Excerpt

But equally pertinent are Wolf’s scouting philosophies and draft success. Five current general managers, all with potentially playoff-bound teams (Dorsey, McCloughan, McKenzie, Schneider and Thompson), were groomed under Wolf. And the lessons Wolf preached to his pupils two decades ago are as relevant as ever.

* * *

Wolf’s most notable stamp on modern scouting is his view on quarterbacks: While there’s only room for one starter, you can never acquire too many. In Wolf’s world, it is worthwhile to draft a QB every year, no matter the current roster situation. “Looking now from afar, the best quarterback in the game is a sixth-round draft choice [Tom Brady], and that should alert everybody,” Wolf says. “Then you look at what the Cowboys have accomplished with a fourth-round draft choice. I mean, it tells you what you should do. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.”

Consider that in seven out of eight drafts from 1992 to ’99, Wolf drafted a quarterback, even after Brett Favre was entrenched as the starter. “I learned very early in this game, if you don’t have a quarterback, you don’t have a chance,” Wolf said. “We were very lucky that we had a unique quarterback that never missed a game. But that didn’t stop me from drafting in late rounds. It’s the premiere position, and you better be able to cover yourself.”

In acquiring extra arms—among them Ty Detmer (1992 ninth round), Mark Brunell (’93 fifth round), Matt Hasselbeck (’98 sixth round) and Aaron Brooks (’99 fourth round), all of whom became starters for other teams—Wolf says he was bringing in players to challenge Favre. But more importantly, he was looking for raw talent to cultivate for backup roles, or to dangle for a trade and acquire even more draft picks.


“As long as you have the good coaches willing to take the time to develop, that model can work,” says Dorsey, who has taken QBs in two of his four drafts with the Chiefs.


“You’re not picking a quarterback every year just to stockpile them,” says McKenzie, who drafted Connor Cook in last year’s fourth round even with budding 25-year-old star Derek Carr and 26-year-old backup Matt McGloin already under contract. “But I have to say Ron Wolf's philosophy was most ingrained in me, in the process of picking Conor Cook. Even though we have a starter, and a backup for another year or two, that’s beside the point. If you have a guy ranked high in the draft, and he somehow falls to you, you don’t say, ‘Well, I need a receiver, so I'm going to take a guy that's much lesser ranked [on our draft board] than a quarterback.’ You take the quarterback, especially in the late round, over a need position and hope he gives you some value.

“That’s how important the position is. Ron always taught us to not see what’s right in front of you, but look down the road. That’s what we did with Aaron Brooks and Matt Hasselbeck, and what I did with Connor Cook.”

With this post...the prosecution rests!

 

[Breed]

They no doubt went in Hell bent on taking a development QB in that draft but had no intentions of using no more than a later round pick. That was reported before the draft and it played out that way. When you get to the later rounds the Nate Sudfelds of the world are your choices.

Fair enough. I didn't see a whole lot of Redskins preseason gameas, but in the last two. I thought Sudfeld made a couple great throws. One of which was an 18 yd TD game winner about 9 1/2 yards deep in the endzone. Putting the ball whhere only the guy he was throwing to could get it. Wish I remembered the kid's name who caught it. As it was both a great pass and great catch.

On the strength of both the throw and catch. I thought both Sudfeld and the WR were kids to keep an eye on.

 

[Stymietee]

i think sudfield pl,ayed good in the rainy'4 rth preseason game he looked good but i would draft a qb in later rds to compete with mcoy and sudfield

If a QB is there that has the potential to supplant any of our current guys, without a whole lot of seasoning, (a year maybe 2)I would take him in any of rounds 2 thru 5.

 

[skinsdad62]

If a QB is there that has the potential to supplant any of our current guys, without a whole lot of seasoning, (a year maybe 2)I would take him in any of rounds 2 thru 5.

i dont see that in this draft

 

[Stymietee]

i dont see that in this draft

OK, but do you see at least some who can move ahead of Colt and Suds? We are just going to disagree on those that I see and you don't who potentially can supplant Kirk. I believe that the Wolf philosophy was to bring in guys to compete with Favre. I mentioned that we should always be in upgrade mode at every position in an earlier thread about Kirk.

 

[skinsdad62]

OK, but do you see at least some who can move ahead of Colt and Suds? We are just going to disagree on those that I see and you don't who potentially can supplant Kirk. I believe that the Wolf philosophy was to bring in guys to compete with Favre. I mentioned that we should always be in upgrade mode at every position in an earlier thread about Kirk.

2nd and 3rd rounders are too high if you have "your guy " i dont see anyone out there taking colts job just yet , maybe suds and hence a late round pick could be used

 

[Stymietee]

2nd and 3rd rounders are too high if you have "your guy " i dont see anyone out there taking colts job just yet , maybe suds and hence a late round pick could be used

As I wrote, we are just going to disagree on that point. However, even if you have your "guy" you draft with an eye towards replacing him. Why? Because return on good or better QB's gives you great flexibility in both the draft and trade opportunities. It is a major mental mistake to either wait until your guy gets old or begins to play beyond his peak years.

 

[deanpet21]

Oh, OK. Serious question here. Was David Johnson really on anyone else's radar aside the Arozona Cardinals? That just seems to be an outstanding pick and one of those diamond in the rough type deals. Where instead of saying every other team blew it. The Cardinals just did a great job.

He was on everyone's radar. He blew up the combine, had great size, and plus he was a great receiver. SM had Jones ahead of Coleman, Johnson(Cle) and Johnson(ari). That is why we got bashed for the pick and we deserved it. IT was a colossal blunder if you ask me and SM should be called out on it.

 

[skinsdad62]

As I wrote, we are just going to disagree on that point. However, even if you have your "guy" you draft with an eye towards replacing him. Why? Because return on good or better QB's gives you great flexibility in both the draft and trade opportunities. It is a major mental mistake to either wait until your guy gets old or begins to play beyond his peak years.

you do that if you have a complete team we dont

 

[Breed]

He was on everyone's radar. He blew up the combine, had great size, and plus he was a great receiver. SM had Jones ahead of Coleman, Johnson(Cle) and Johnson(ari). That is why we got bashed for the pick and we deserved it. IT was a colossal blunder if you ask me and SM should be called out on it.

OK. So is it your assertion that the Skins should've taken Johnson before they selected Preston Smith, 2nd rd 38 pk, Or before they selected Schreff, 1st rd 5th pk. Cuz the Cardinals nabbed his in the 3rd with 86th pk or 9 picks before we drafted Jones with the 95th pk.

But I'd agree with you that if SM had Jones rated ahead of Johnson. That was a bad assessment. But to call SM out on it. I dunno about all that. Everybody, whether its Bill Belichick or Bill Walsh who imo was probably one of the greatest talant evaluators in football. Make wrong calls. Its the nature of the business.

Now if habitual mistakes on par with thinking Jones is better than Johnson occur. Than that's when it will become a problem worth bringing attention to.

 

[Stymietee]

you do that if you have a complete team we dont

Then we must do away with the whole notion of "best player available" because if QB was so special, so rare, then forgoing the obvious best player based on importance doesn't apply.

 

[Breed]

Then we must do away with the whole notion of "best player available" because if QB was so special, so rare, then forgoing the obvious best player based on importance doesn't apply.

It's a false notion to began with imo as there are some gaping holes in the BPA only draft mentality. Which imo is really only for teams who are legit Super Bowl contenders. Any team that doesn't fit that criteria though has to consider need when drafting. Doesn't have to be the main cirteria or their only criteria, but it has to be considered.

 

[Stymietee]

It's a false notion to began with imo as there are some gaping holes in the BPA only draft mentality. Which imo is really only for teams who are legit Super Bowl contenders. Any team that doesn't fit that criteria though has to consider need when drafting. Doesn't have to be the main cirteria or their only criteria, but it has to be considered.

I mostly agree with this, however, it is my opinion that even SB contender and winners never stand pat. All players being unequal, they all don't have their peak years at the same time, therefore, there is always a spot on any given team that needs an upgrade. BTW: for me this even applies at QB. Rebuilding teams absolutely cannot use BPA.

 

[skinsdad62]

Then we must do away with the whole notion of "best player available" because if QB was so special, so rare, then forgoing the obvious best player based on importance doesn't apply.

i am not a proponent of BPA solely . to me its a combination of BPA and OF Need

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

guys if you read jimmy johnson book when they picked emmit smith they took a flyier they did not know at the time he was going to make the team let alone be a HOF point is could have should talking about the draft is point less period we should have taking brady in rd 3 at the time the team picks they dont really know if he is going to be a badass or a dud jeez

 

[deanpet21]

OK. So is it your assertion that the Skins should've taken Johnson before they selected Preston Smith, 2nd rd 38 pk, Or before they selected Schreff, 1st rd 5th pk. Cuz the Cardinals nabbed his in the 3rd with 86th pk or 9 picks before we drafted Jones with the 95th pk.

But I'd agree with you that if SM had Jones rated ahead of Johnson. That was a bad assessment. But to call SM out on it. I dunno about all that. Everybody, whether its Bill Belichick or Bill Walsh who imo was probably one of the greatest talant evaluators in football. Make wrong calls. Its the nature of the business.

Now if habitual mistakes on par with thinking Jones is better than Johnson occur. Than that's when it will become a problem worth bringing attention to.

No. We traded down in that 3rd round to get Jones. The extra pick was to take Kojo. If we stayed pat we could of had Johnson.

 

[Breed]

No. We traded down in that 3rd round to get Jones. The extra pick was to take Kojo. If we stayed pat we could of had Johnson.

Ah, right, right. Not that it would've made a difference even had the Skins stayed pat. That likely just means Jones gets picked higher and before Johnson. If Scott had Matt Jones as a "BPA" over David Johnson.

 

[Breed]

guys if you read jimmy johnson book when they picked emmit smith they took a flyier they did not know at the time he was going to make the team let alone be a HOF point is could have should talking about the draft is point less period we should have taking brady in rd 3 at the time at the time the team picks they dont really know if he is going to be a badass or a dud jeez

Lets not go to Crazy Town just yet. I hear they like to fling their poop at one another there.

How bout we just head to Imagination Land and turn back time to 2005. Where we could then draft Aaron Rodgers with the 9th pk instead of Carlos Rogers. And depending on who was still there. Taken Demarcus Ware, Carlos Rogers, Luis Castillo or Roddy White instead of Jason Campbell with the 25th pk.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

but at that time carlos and jason was good picks if you new who was going to be good in the future you would be a draft god