SMGM draft trends

[Breed]

Sudfeld is not the answer but they had to have someone. Back to Cali's post I doubt Green Bay had an additional 3rd-6th round picks every year, and even if they did think of the players they passed over year after year who turned out good by spending so many picks on quarterbacks who never played for them (or anyone else).

If Sudfeld is not the answer, or even a possibiity which you seem to be implying. Than shouldn't someone not named Sudfeld been the pick?

 

[deanpet21]

Are you talking about Gurley?

The name that imterest me from that draft is Vic Beasley.

No IM talking about Johnson.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

If Sudfeld is not the answer, or even a possibiity which you seem to be implying. Than shouldn't someone not named Sudfeld been the pick?

They no doubt went in Hell bent on taking a development QB in that draft but had no intentions of using no more than a later round pick. That was reported before the draft and it played out that way. When you get to the later rounds the Nate Sudfelds of the world are your choices.

 

[Sportster 72]

Just did the research. Teams Scot was with took a QB more years than they didn't. Most notable names were Matt Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, Russell Wilson and Kaepernick. There were others who did nothing of note.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Sudfeld is not the answer but they had to have someone. Back to Cali's post I doubt Green Bay had an additional 3rd-6th round picks every year, and even if they did think of the players they passed over year after year who turned out good by spending so many picks on quarterbacks who never played for them (or anyone else).

Drafting a later round QB Is a strategy and a scouting/drafting philosophy that comes from the Ron Wolf coaching tree, of which Scot is a proponent, granted with his own twist and take on things.

Here's a relevant article regarding some of that
Green Bay Packers GM Ron Wolf's Draft, Free Agency | The MMQB with Peter King

Excerpt

But equally pertinent are Wolf’s scouting philosophies and draft success. Five current general managers, all with potentially playoff-bound teams (Dorsey, McCloughan, McKenzie, Schneider and Thompson), were groomed under Wolf. And the lessons Wolf preached to his pupils two decades ago are as relevant as ever.

* * *

Wolf’s most notable stamp on modern scouting is his view on quarterbacks: While there’s only room for one starter, you can never acquire too many. In Wolf’s world, it is worthwhile to draft a QB every year, no matter the current roster situation. “Looking now from afar, the best quarterback in the game is a sixth-round draft choice [Tom Brady], and that should alert everybody,” Wolf says. “Then you look at what the Cowboys have accomplished with a fourth-round draft choice. I mean, it tells you what you should do. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.”

Consider that in seven out of eight drafts from 1992 to ’99, Wolf drafted a quarterback, even after Brett Favre was entrenched as the starter. “I learned very early in this game, if you don’t have a quarterback, you don’t have a chance,” Wolf said. “We were very lucky that we had a unique quarterback that never missed a game. But that didn’t stop me from drafting in late rounds. It’s the premiere position, and you better be able to cover yourself.”

In acquiring extra arms—among them Ty Detmer (1992 ninth round), Mark Brunell (’93 fifth round), Matt Hasselbeck (’98 sixth round) and Aaron Brooks (’99 fourth round), all of whom became starters for other teams—Wolf says he was bringing in players to challenge Favre. But more importantly, he was looking for raw talent to cultivate for backup roles, or to dangle for a trade and acquire even more draft picks.


“As long as you have the good coaches willing to take the time to develop, that model can work,” says Dorsey, who has taken QBs in two of his four drafts with the Chiefs.


“You’re not picking a quarterback every year just to stockpile them,” says McKenzie, who drafted Connor Cook in last year’s fourth round even with budding 25-year-old star Derek Carr and 26-year-old backup Matt McGloin already under contract. “But I have to say Ron Wolf's philosophy was most ingrained in me, in the process of picking Conor Cook. Even though we have a starter, and a backup for another year or two, that’s beside the point. If you have a guy ranked high in the draft, and he somehow falls to you, you don’t say, ‘Well, I need a receiver, so I'm going to take a guy that's much lesser ranked [on our draft board] than a quarterback.’ You take the quarterback, especially in the late round, over a need position and hope he gives you some value.

“That’s how important the position is. Ron always taught us to not see what’s right in front of you, but look down the road. That’s what we did with Aaron Brooks and Matt Hasselbeck, and what I did with Connor Cook.”

 

[Sportster 72]

Drafting a later round QB Is a strategy and a scouting/drafting philosophy that comes from the Ron Wolf coaching tree, of which Scot is a proponent, granted with his own twist and take on things.

Here's a relevant article regarding some of that
Green Bay Packers GM Ron Wolf's Draft, Free Agency | The MMQB with Peter King

Excerpt

But equally pertinent are Wolf’s scouting philosophies and draft success. Five current general managers, all with potentially playoff-bound teams (Dorsey, McCloughan, McKenzie, Schneider and Thompson), were groomed under Wolf. And the lessons Wolf preached to his pupils two decades ago are as relevant as ever.

* * *

Wolf’s most notable stamp on modern scouting is his view on quarterbacks: While there’s only room for one starter, you can never acquire too many. In Wolf’s world, it is worthwhile to draft a QB every year, no matter the current roster situation. “Looking now from afar, the best quarterback in the game is a sixth-round draft choice [Tom Brady], and that should alert everybody,” Wolf says. “Then you look at what the Cowboys have accomplished with a fourth-round draft choice. I mean, it tells you what you should do. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.”

Consider that in seven out of eight drafts from 1992 to ’99, Wolf drafted a quarterback, even after Brett Favre was entrenched as the starter. “I learned very early in this game, if you don’t have a quarterback, you don’t have a chance,” Wolf said. “We were very lucky that we had a unique quarterback that never missed a game. But that didn’t stop me from drafting in late rounds. It’s the premiere position, and you better be able to cover yourself.”

In acquiring extra arms—among them Ty Detmer (1992 ninth round), Mark Brunell (’93 fifth round), Matt Hasselbeck (’98 sixth round) and Aaron Brooks (’99 fourth round), all of whom became starters for other teams—Wolf says he was bringing in players to challenge Favre. But more importantly, he was looking for raw talent to cultivate for backup roles, or to dangle for a trade and acquire even more draft picks.


“As long as you have the good coaches willing to take the time to develop, that model can work,” says Dorsey, who has taken QBs in two of his four drafts with the Chiefs.


“You’re not picking a quarterback every year just to stockpile them,” says McKenzie, who drafted Connor Cook in last year’s fourth round even with budding 25-year-old star Derek Carr and 26-year-old backup Matt McGloin already under contract. “But I have to say Ron Wolf's philosophy was most ingrained in me, in the process of picking Conor Cook. Even though we have a starter, and a backup for another year or two, that’s beside the point. If you have a guy ranked high in the draft, and he somehow falls to you, you don’t say, ‘Well, I need a receiver, so I'm going to take a guy that's much lesser ranked [on our draft board] than a quarterback.’ You take the quarterback, especially in the late round, over a need position and hope he gives you some value.

“That’s how important the position is. Ron always taught us to not see what’s right in front of you, but look down the road. That’s what we did with Aaron Brooks and Matt Hasselbeck, and what I did with Connor Cook.”

I love a person that does their research. Maybe it is the genealogist in me. Nice one Cali.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I love a person that does their research. Maybe it is the genealogist in me. Nice one Cali.

I remember when we brought Scot on, I spent oodles of time reading multiple articles regarding Scots drafting philosophies - the QB strategy always stuck out to me. Of particular note to me was the success Ron Wolf, his mentor, had in GB and how much home grown talent they accumulated and have to this day. Another thing that struck me was how GB went with the younger player scouted to the team vs bring in a vet FA, even knowing there would likely be some growing pains at times.

 

[Sportster 72]

Yep a few of these guys learned from Wolf who was always considered a top GM. I like that they have a template they follow.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

i think sudfield pl,ayed good in the rainy'4 rth preseason game he looked good but i would draft a qb in later rds to compete with mcoy and sudfield

 

[skinsdad62]

see what GMSM is doing is the right thing . the problem is this fan base doesnt have the patience to let the plan work .

he isnt going to spend big money often on name free agents

he is going to draft qbs

he will take BPA

this fan base seems to think this team is better then it really is , we are an avg team , a growing one and we will lose games we"shoulda could woulda " won because our talent isnt up to par

he spent time fixing the offense his 1st 2 years and he gambled (and lost ) and stop gapping the defense i think he drafted 2 solid pieces in cravens and fuller but we need more investment there

it wont happen this off season we have too many holes and we are beginning year 3 of the rebuild . we need to have faith that the plan will work

so far it has

i am of the opinion it wont matter much who the DC is . we have RK josh as star players TM and smith as competent guys cravens and fuller on the rise BB can play aas well . , baker is on guy too that leaves a lot of issues that a draft full of rookies wont solve right away

wdae phillips would have a hard time fielding a competent defense with that

 

[Caliskinsfan]

this fan base doesnt have the patience to let the plan work .

The key

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I totally understand the value of a quarterback, which is why I was fine with the Cousins pick at the time even though I was all in for Griff. But a 9th round pick is a lot different than the 3rd-6th round we were discussing.

I looked over those Wolf picks that worked out, obviously many didn't and were essentially wasted picks. Aaron Brooks was taken in the 4th, developed to some extent, then was traded along with a guy you have never heard of for another guy you have never heard of and a 3rd. So it's not like Wolfe parlayed that into a fortune. Brunnell was perhaps his best pick, in the 5th and 2 years later traded to the Jags for a 3rd and a 5th. Hassellbeck was taken in the 6th, then traded to the Hawks along with a first (17th overall) for the 10th pick in that draft and a 3rd. Not sure how the draft value chart measures it but going from 17 to 10 is worth a 3rd and not much more I would think, maybe I'm wrong. Detmer only costs a 9th but he left via free agency 4 years later.

So you see even on the guys he hit on Wolf hardly got rich by developing them and then trading. And of course these are his successes. Just think of all the linebackers, offensive lineman etc he could have gotten with all the picks he used on QBs. Of course he did find himself with decent backups but with Favre he didn't need them.

If they sign Kirk to a long term deal, and with all the holes we have on this team, if SM starts dialing up quarterbacks in the 4th round I'll be kind of pissed.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I totally understand the value of a quarterback, which is why I was fine with the Cousins pick at the time even though I was all in for Griff. But a 9th round pick is a lot different than the 3rd-6th round we were discussing.

I looked over those Wolf picks that worked out, obviously many didn't and were essentially wasted picks. Aaron Brooks was taken in the 4th, developed to some extent, then was traded along with a guy you have never heard of for another guy you have never heard of and a 3rd. So it's not like Wolfe parlayed that into a fortune. Brunnell was perhaps his best pick, in the 5th and 2 years later traded to the Jags for a 3rd and a 5th. Hassellbeck was taken in the 6th, then traded to the Hawks along with a first (17th overall) for the 10th pick in that draft and a 3rd. Not sure how the draft value chart measures it but going from 17 to 10 is worth a 3rd and not much more I would think, maybe I'm wrong. Detmer only costs a 9th but he left via free agency 4 years later.

So you see even on the guys he hit on Wolf hardly got rich by developing them and then trading. And of course these are his successes. Just think of all the linebackers, offensive lineman etc he could have gotten with all the picks he used on QBs. Of course he did find himself with decent backups but with Favre he didn't need them.

If they sign Kirk to a long term deal, and with all the holes we have on this team, if SM starts dialing up quarterbacks in the 4th round I'll be kind of pissed.

The irony does not escape me here that you are a firm believer in the statement of Wolfs...without a QB, you're basically poop in this league. This is a strategy to ensure you always have a healthy, developing one on your roster, Kirk being a prime example of that.

What do you mean by 9th round pick?

 

[skinsdad62]

I totally understand the value of a quarterback, which is why I was fine with the Cousins pick at the time even though I was all in for Griff. But a 9th round pick is a lot different than the 3rd-6th round we were discussing.

I looked over those Wolf picks that worked out, obviously many didn't and were essentially wasted picks. Aaron Brooks was taken in the 4th, developed to some extent, then was traded along with a guy you have never heard of for another guy you have never heard of and a 3rd. So it's not like Wolfe parlayed that into a fortune. Brunnell was perhaps his best pick, in the 5th and 2 years later traded to the Jags for a 3rd and a 5th. Hassellbeck was taken in the 6th, then traded to the Hawks along with a first (17th overall) for the 10th pick in that draft and a 3rd. Not sure how the draft value chart measures it but going from 17 to 10 is worth a 3rd and not much more I would think, maybe I'm wrong. Detmer only costs a 9th but he left via free agency 4 years later.

So you see even on the guys he hit on Wolf hardly got rich by developing them and then trading. And of course these are his successes. Just think of all the linebackers, offensive lineman etc he could have gotten with all the picks he used on QBs. Of course he did find himself with decent backups but with Favre he didn't need them.

If they sign Kirk to a long term deal, and with all the holes we have on this team, if SM starts dialing up quarterbacks in the 4th round I'll be kind of pissed.

i dont "expect " late round picks to make it i "hope " they do so i am not worried about some 4-7th rounders falling to the scrap heap of broken dreams . you take chances with those picks . if taking qbs profit you some then why worry about it . its a crap shoot at that point no matter who you pick

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

to cali you can have a good qb and still be poop

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

i expect all the rookies we draft make it thats why i watch the hole draft start to finished each pick can be the next big thing all it takes is one good draft ask dallas jimmy johnson ask poopgarret on and on

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

The irony does not escape me here that you are a firm believer in the statement of Wolfs...without a QB, you're basically poop in this league. This is a strategy to ensure you always have a healthy, developing one on your roster, Kirk being a prime example of that.

What do you mean by 9th round pick?

The article was using the example of Wolf using a 9th round pick on a QB when we have been discussing 3-6th round picks earlier. I just don't see the need to spend mid round picks yearly on a QB when you have a young starter who never gets hurt. This applies to us now and Green Bay in the past. As I have shown Wolf really didn't parlay his hits into much more than he initially spent when he picked the QB and of course those were his success stories, he spent a lot of picks on QBs who never panned out.

 

[Sportster 72]

Understand your point DGF but hard to argue with Ron Wolf's philosophy based on his track record. Actually prior to 2012 the Redskins did something similar although it never turned out to be anything but they darfted Breenan, Rosefels, Hamdan etc.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

i liked hamdan

 

[ehb5]

Understand your point DGF but hard to argue with Ron Wolf's philosophy based on his track record. Actually prior to 2012 the Redskins did something similar although it never turned out to be anything but they darfted Breenan, Rosefels, Hamdan etc.

Oh goodness. The cult of colt lol