Slaton10 Musings Week 7

[Slaton10]

I think WVU can be good consistently, and can recruit against the big boys given the right circumstances. WVU was on the cusp of being a national brand in 2005-2007, people were rooting for us everywhere, there was not YET the expectation of competing with UGA, OU, etc, but the foundation was being laid. As to in state recruiting, we may not have many in state kids, BUT Western Pa and Eastern OH are closer than Bluefield, Huntington, or even Charleston. Are my expectations unrealistic? Maybe, but I think we can compete with anyone. If WVU gets to winning the games we should, competing with everyone, and knocking off a big boy now and then, recruits will want to come here. I travel a great deal for work, and see people with WV hats and shirts on from Texas to Minnesota, from Kansas to Maine, all we have to do is win some games.

Well I think they are "good" consistently..but there is a difference at least in my mind what is "good" and what is "great"..I think Wv fans think we should be GREAT every year...Great to me is a 10 plus win season..good is an 8 to 9 win season which is what Wv has been...for like 100 years more or less..

We do compete with teams on the level UGA and OU ( pretty sure we beat both in a bowl game and that includes last years NC if I am not mistaken) ...Its just Wv can't do it it every year..As far as kids from Ohio and Western PA...come on DAD don't kid yourself..they didn't grow up dreaming of playing for WV...no different that every in state kid in Wv wants to play for the Mountaineers..

But goes back to my point at no time in Wv history has the recruiting class that Dana is bringing in been more diverse...but even those kids are not the cream of the crop in those recruiting grounds either..

But he shirts and hats you mention you see from other states...again my perception that Wv has a CULT following nationally..the consummate underdog that everyone likes to cheer for, the team whose identity is to play with a chip on its shoulder..and unfortunately a lot of them may have grown up in Wv only to have to leave the state to find employment...like yours truly.

2005-07 was catching lighting in a bottle...Rich put in a scheme , the read option that no one was prepared for...and good for him it made him famous...and good for the program it put Wv in the national spotlight.

 

[WVUDAD]

Well I think they are "good" consistently..but there is a difference at least in my mind what is "good" and what is "great"..I think Wv fans think we should be GREAT every year...Great to me is a 10 plus win season..good is an 8 to 9 win season which is what Wv has been...for like 100 years more or less..

I agree, I put absolutely no stock in the "national championship", it is a popularity contest, period. If WVU can have a winning season, beat who they are supposed to, not get pounded by the big boys, and represent well, I am perfectly happy with 9 wins, elated with 10. I never want to be like OSU, UM, etc, with the arrogant fans, firing 11 win a year coaches, and making excuses for every loss. I would love for WVU to win every game, but we all know that aint happening!!

 

[bbwvfan]

Throw Penn State in there...amazing what their boosters and school will do to get that program back on top...incredible they have been able to turn it around so quickly even with the coaching change when O'brien left...it is a true National Brand program...

I agree... their bounce back from despair has been truly remarkable. Franklin was always known as a great recruiter, and I'm sure it helps to have a guy like him to close the deal.

But, PSU was always a power house in the recruiting wars... always. Kids literally dream of playing in that ugly fucking stadium of theirs.

 

[Slaton10]

I agree, I put absolutely no stock in the "national championship", it is a popularity contest, period. If WVU can have a winning season, beat who they are supposed to, not get pounded by the big boys, and represent well, I am perfectly happy with 9 wins, elated with 10. I never want to be like OSU, UM, etc, with the arrogant fans, firing 11 win a year coaches, and making excuses for every loss. I would love for WVU to win every game, but we all know that aint happening!!

Hey don't get me wrong I am just like every other fan waiting for the Messiah to come ( IE playing in the NC Game) I would love for them to be "GREAT"..maybe one day and maybe its here getting tthe right combination of talent thru the door.. I just find it fascinating in a year like we are in losing 7 starters on defense and playing 2 true freshman that majority of fans think you just plug and play and Wv should just be able to compete like the power programs you mentioned...and the only answer it can be is that Dana must not know how to coach?..just baffling to me really... Now if your at Tennessee I could understand the frustration...or Michigan before Harbaugh...and Notre Dame who only really plays 7 games a year..or Texas...or TAMU

If you really take two steps and look at how few coaches in this entire country that seem to have all the answers to sustaining GREAT is IMHO just these Coaches: Saban, Meyer, Peterson and Swinney...everyone else may put a year or two together but not every year...

 

[Slaton10]

I agree... their bounce back from despair has been truly remarkable. Franklin was always known as a great recruiter, and I'm sure it helps to have a guy like him to close the deal.

But, PSU was always a power house in the recruiting wars... always. Kids literally dream of playing in that ugly fucking stadium of theirs.

It is remarkable.. again it says a ton of the commitment from the President down to the last season Ticket Holder of what has happened there...

 

[mad2mc]

It is remarkable.. again it says a ton of the commitment from the President down to the last season Ticket Holder of what has happened there...

All it took for Paterno to get the wolves off his back was getting that 1 big recruiting class. Everybody wanted him to step down and what happens? He brings in Justin King, Dion Butler, Jordan Norwood, and Derrick Williams. Those kids resurrected the program and everybody at PSU soon forgot about Joe stepping down. These kids talked to each other and more or less decided to make an impact together at PSU. Could happen here.

Franklin is a good coach and left just in time. A couple players were being investigated and I believe 1 or some were found guilty.

 

[DCWV4life]

Win is a win....

All you guys saying it was the offenses fault that the D was tired...the bears first two TDs were scored in 5 plays..lol They could not get them off the field at all those last two drives with poor tackling and dumb penalties. I do agree some of the 8 plays we ran in the 4th were not what i would call...the defense still needs to get better. When it counted they came through....good learning exp for this team IMO

 

[bbwvfan]

Win is a win....

All you guys saying it was the offenses fault that the D was tired...the bears first two TDs were scored in 5 plays..lol

I don't think those two TD's are the ones of concern to anyone. As I stated, Brewer came in and shook the world with his speed and option reads. Also noted, the lack of preparation for the first onsides kick.

One has to agree the offense going 3 and out on its first possession of the 4th qtr was not going to help the defense. A 5 play possession eating up but a minute and a half wasn't going to help either.

IMO, Spav and the offense didn't really attempt to do anything differently against BU in the 4th qtr than they did against TT... outside of the RB screen. Simply didn't execute the plays last Saturday. If Sims comes down with the 3rd down pass deep in BU territory, we likely ain't even having a discussion about any of this shit!

 

[bbwvfan]

I think WVU can be good consistently, and can recruit against the big boys given the right circumstances. WVU was on the cusp of being a national brand in 2005-2007,

The right circumstances for recruiting with the big boys would not include leaving the HC of your football program on the hot seat for two straight years!

WVU was on the cusp from '05-'07 and the program brought in great recruiters with ties to FL and fertile grounds of Western Pa and the DMV areas. Unfortunately, the AD and president did not go all-in and support the HC and his football program to take advantage of the success and building blocks established by that staff.

 

[WVUDAD]

The right circumstances for recruiting with the big boys would not include leaving the HC of your football program on the hot seat for two straight years!

WVU was on the cusp from '05-'07 and the program brought in great recruiters with ties to FL and fertile grounds of Western Pa and the DMV areas. Unfortunately, the AD and president did not go all-in and support the HC and his football program to take advantage of the success and building blocks established by that staff.

How many years was Miles on the hot seat? He won games. How long was Richt on it? He won, We will have to disagree on this topic, the coaches at the "big boy schools" are ALWAYS on the hot seat, yet they win. As to going "all in" behind Fraud in 2007, a lot of what he wanted was against NCAA rules, as we saw at other schools who had implemented the things he wanted. Fraud had issues with Garrison was promising things that Pastilong knew were against the rules.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

The right circumstances for recruiting with the big boys would not include leaving the HC of your football program on the hot seat for two straight years!

WVU was on the cusp from '05-'07 and the program brought in great recruiters with ties to FL and fertile grounds of Western Pa and the DMV areas. Unfortunately, the AD and president did not go all-in and support the HC and his football program to take advantage of the success and building blocks established by that staff.

This board was looking like a lovefest lately BBW & Dad finding common ground. Slaton admitting that free agency may be a bit overused by Dana. Now BBW has to regurgitate the Lyons screwed us over argument.

Holgerson had a 11 win 16 loss record in conference for the previous three years, he failed to finish any better than 5th in the conference. Last year was a win big or get a new coach year. Should Lyons have fired him after 2015 with a large buyout or give him another year to see if he can turn it around? I think he made the right decision and it is paying off.

 

[Slaton10]

This board was looking like a lovefest lately BBW & Dad finding common ground. Slaton admitting that free agency may be a bit overused by Dana. Now BBW has to regurgitate the Lyons screwed us over argument.

Holgerson had a 11 win 16 loss record in conference for the previous three years, he failed to finish any better than 5th in the conference. Last year was a win big or get a new coach year. Should Lyons have fired him after 2015 with a large buyout or give him another year to see if he can turn it around? I think he made the right decision and it is paying off.

Going to the game Saturday, you going to be there brother? I am bringing the Shine! Cherry Flavored!

 

[Slaton10]

This board was looking like a lovefest lately BBW & Dad finding common ground. Slaton admitting that free agency may be a bit overused by Dana. Now BBW has to regurgitate the Lyons screwed us over argument.

Holgerson had a 11 win 16 loss record in conference for the previous three years, he failed to finish any better than 5th in the conference. Last year was a win big or get a new coach year. Should Lyons have fired him after 2015 with a large buyout or give him another year to see if he can turn it around? I think he made the right decision and it is paying off.

That W/L record that you brought up is interesting..I would bet without even looking Nebraska's move to the Big 10 is worse..same for Utah, Colorado, Mizzou (Possibly, would need to research that one but I bet its close) , Boston College and Miami.....

 

[bbwvfan]

How many years was Miles on the hot seat? He won games. How long was Richt on it? He won, We will have to disagree on this topic, the coaches at the "big boy schools" are ALWAYS on the hot seat, yet they win. As to going "all in" behind Fraud in 2007, a lot of what he wanted was against NCAA rules, as we saw at other schools who had implemented the things he wanted. Fraud had issues with Garrison was promising things that Pastilong knew were against the rules.

Was Miles given less than 4 years on his contract at any point in time? Richt signed an extension the season before jumping ship. Not even close to being the same situation.

 

[bbwvfan]

This board was looking like a lovefest lately BBW & Dad finding common ground. Slaton admitting that free agency may be a bit overused by Dana. Now BBW has to regurgitate the Lyons screwed us over argument.

Holgerson had a 11 win 16 loss record in conference for the previous three years, he failed to finish any better than 5th in the conference. Last year was a win big or get a new coach year. Should Lyons have fired him after 2015 with a large buyout or give him another year to see if he can turn it around? I think he made the right decision and it is paying off.

Dana had one of the best coaching performances in the country in the '15 season. One really can't even argue the point.

 

[WVUDAD]

Was Miles given less than 4 years on his contract at any point in time? Richt signed an extension the season before jumping ship. Not even close to being the same situation.

Jumping ship? Think again, Richt was fired after a nine win season. EXACTLY the same situation, coaches who were underperforming in the eyes of big boosters, fans and the AD. The length of the contract has nothing to do with it when you are threatened to be fired after every loss or close win.

 

[bbwvfan]

Jumping ship? Think again, Richt was fired after a nine win season. EXACTLY the same situation, coaches who were underperforming in the eyes of big boosters, fans and the AD. The length of the contract has nothing to do with it when you are threatened to be fired after every loss or close win.

He and the school had just signed a huge raise and extension.

Mark Richt had hoped for one more shot, friend says

"The next clue: after McGarity’s sideways endorsement, Richt received an $800,000-a-year raise, a contract extension and a commitment of more money for his program. In the workaday world outside major college football, the raise was astounding: it would take the average wage-earner in Georgia more than 16 years to make $800,000."

A commitment to the football program. That is what UGA made. That is what WVU failed to make. Chris Anderson from 247 sports told me the contract situation for Dana absolutely had a major affect on his recruiting.

I agree with you though, negative press or a bunch of boosters mouthing off about their discontent with the current HC is not going to help recruiting at a school like WVU. We have issues that schools like UGA and LSU don't ever have to overcome.

 

[Slaton10]

How many years was Miles on the hot seat? He won games. How long was Richt on it? He won, We will have to disagree on this topic, the coaches at the "big boy schools" are ALWAYS on the hot seat, yet they win. As to going "all in" behind Fraud in 2007, a lot of what he wanted was against NCAA rules, as we saw at other schools who had implemented the things he wanted. Fraud had issues with Garrison was promising things that Pastilong knew were against the rules.

How many kids did the Mad Hatter have to recruit outside of Louisiana...and Richt outside of Georgia..they always had talent coming thru the doors they were on the hot seat..especially Richt because they were not in the top 10 every year as MAYBE they should have been...

What Rich wanted at the time was not against the rules..he wanted to have subscription content for the program...no different than what some other schools were doing and certainly no different than what Rivals and Scout do now. It was more about how the monies were to be dispersed.

He was an advocate to include school books at the time for the athletes ...which may have caused heartburn then but look at the landscape now!

Maybe some of his other ideas were off the rails but at the time neither Garrison or Pastilong could come up with one idea about how to increase revenues..only thing that KING EDDIE would say is either we can do a project because there is no money..or say nothing at all....and that my friend is a FACT.

 

[bbwvfan]

IMO, WVU faces so many obstacles that make it paramount that the school's leadership... its boosters... do everything possible to help the program reach success or the program will suffer more deeply than most P5 schools. An understanding of all who support WVU needs to be promoted.

The football program can no longer afford to have any fan/supporter believe it can compete for top level recruits without doing more than it's currently doing... more than anything that was needed in our past.

We can not make it to the next level without a full commitment... without this understanding by our fans.

 

[Slaton10]

IMO, WVU faces so many obstacles that make it paramount that the school's leadership... its boosters... do everything possible to help the program reach success or the program will suffer more deeply than most P5 schools. An understanding of all who support WVU needs to be promoted.

The football program can no longer afford to have any fan/supporter believe it can compete for top level recruits without doing more than it's currently doing... more than anything that was needed in our past.

We can not make it to the next level without a full commitment... without this understanding by our fans.

Now these comments are spot on...and I couldn't even possibly agree more...Think about these POWER 5 Schools..think about the recruiting advantage they have over Wv...and think about the mediocre to poor results they achieve year in and year out..

Rutgers
Virgnia
Syracuse
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Maryland
Pittsburgh
Purdue
Indiana
Miss State
Ole Miss
Vanderbilt
Colorado
Northwestern
Kentucky

They all have advantages over Wv but Wv in its current state has out performed all of them...but if the fan base wants more...then they need to invest more..