Scouting Report on Kaep

[deep9er]

Crabs has a calf issue, Vernon another hamstring strain. Not good, not good at all.

A lot of folks seem to be putting it ALL on Kap and that is not right. Its a team game: OL has to block, receivers have to get open, coaches have to game plan. Kap has to do his part too of course.

I am quite worried about this season. Seems like the injury/suspension bug is biting hard this year. And we still lack speed.

no, I'm not putting it ALL on Kaep. no doubt his teammates have to perform too, but we'll be able to tell if his passing skills have improved or not?

fans can tell if it was a blown block, and not his fault. fans can tell if the receiver dropped the ball, and not his fault. fans will read the receiver ran the wrong route, or the RB didn't pick up the blitz, but other than these plays, Kaep has to improve his pocket passing. that's just the way the NFL is nowadays, your running skills is only good if you can pass first.

 

[Ricky Roma]

This year we have the weapons, we'll see if Greg Roman actually calls an NFL level passing game. Once he does that people will be surprised what Kap can do throwing the ball. From the pocket, out of it, standing on one leg or while climbing Staley's back.

First of all, good to see you and a few other KFFL'ers make the jump. I doubt I'll be back over there much because it seems only a matter of time before Cory pulls the plug.

Per your quote.....Dude...you gotta leave that fallacy back at kffl. Roman does have his faults, like everyone else, but just take a look at the link in this thread. The tape doesn't lie. Not once can I remember any Niner receiver talking down about Roman's pass game plans or scheme. (Don't confuse this with a receiver complaining about wanting the ball) If it was this grand problem, it would've made itself present by receiver(s) by now....especially veteran guys like the guys we have.

Kaepernick must take his own game to the next level - pre-snap reads, footwork, progressions and reads, accuracy....He is not alone, but it does start with #7.

 

[Genus49]

First of all, good to see you and a few other KFFL'ers make the jump. I doubt I'll be back over there much because it seems only a matter of time before Cory pulls the plug.

Per your quote.....Dude...you gotta leave that fallacy back at kffl. Roman does have his faults, like everyone else, but just take a look at the link in this thread. The tape doesn't lie. Not once can I remember any Niner receiver talking down about Roman's pass game plans or scheme. (Don't confuse this with a receiver complaining about wanting the ball) If it was this grand problem, it would've made itself present by receiver(s) by now....especially veteran guys like the guys we have.

Kaepernick must take his own game to the next level - pre-snap reads, footwork, progressions and reads, accuracy....He is not alone, but it does start with #7.

Good to see you here as well...but that was one part of my post. And if you couldn't tell I was joking around somewhat. The point being Kap gets hate from all angles. He has things he needs to improve on but the play calling isn't great and needs to improve. I can buy that it was dumbed down due to the lack of viable passing options but not that Kap can't handle it. At least the evidence says otherwise. Why did we see almost the same offense with Alex Smith? Could he not handle it either?

No excuses this year on all fronts.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Good to see you here as well...but that was one part of my post. And if you couldn't tell I was joking around somewhat. The point being Kap gets hate from all angles. He has things he needs to improve on but the play calling isn't great and needs to improve. I can buy that it was dumbed down due to the lack of viable passing options but not that Kap can't handle it. At least the evidence says otherwise. Why did we see almost the same offense with Alex Smith? Could he not handle it either?

No excuses this year on all fronts.

Can the play calling be improved? Sure....but it's not like we're trotting out there with Jimmy Raye calling the shots. Kaepernick gets hate in all shapes and forms....and a lot of it is nonsense....but he is a guy who has to come from further behind than most when it comes to pro offenses. He is still far from a finished product.

As for Alex Smith....two totally different mental approaches. Kaep looks downfield first and brings his vision back to the line of scrimmage, whereas Smith looks short first, and foremost.....and usually goes in that direction. It would do Kaep much better to reign that in because he needs more time in the pocket for those patterns to evolve, and CK is more likely to get going with his feet, rather than go through progressions.

 

[lasportzphan]

Can the play calling be improved? Sure....but it's not like we're trotting out there with Jimmy Raye calling the shots. Kaepernick gets hate in all shapes and forms....and a lot of it is nonsense....but he is a guy who has to come from further behind than most when it comes to pro offenses. He is still far from a finished product.

As for Alex Smith....two totally different mental approaches. Kaep looks downfield first and brings his vision back to the line of scrimmage, whereas Smith looks short first, and foremost.....and usually goes in that direction. It would do Kaep much better to reign that in because he needs more time in the pocket for those patterns to evolve, and CK is more likely to get going with his feet, rather than go through progressions.

Kaep has a far better arm and mobility than Alex Smith. I don't know why there is even a debate about this anymore. Kaep can make throws Alex could never make downfield.

 

[lasportzphan]

The best game of Kaep's career (in my humble opinion) was against Atlanta for the 2013 NFC Championship. He took one sack, only ran the ball twice and was laser accurate when he needed to be going 16 of 21 for 233 yards and touchdown. When I saw him manage that game, I thought the sky was the limit for him professionally and we were a "shoe in" for the Super Bowl that year.

With this in mind, the 9ers game plan with Kaep lacks consistency. Maybe this is because they scout teams so well and game plan accordingly. However, there are moments you would like to see the 49ers not play to their competition and just control the game.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Kaep has a far better arm and mobility than Alex Smith. I don't know why there is even a debate about this anymore. Kaep can make throws Alex could never make downfield.

If your argument is which pivot is better between Smith and Kaepernick....yes...I'll take CK simply based on potential. If your argument is that having a better arm and more mobility = being a better QB....then you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Pattersonca65]

If your argument is which pivot is better between Smith and Kaepernick....yes...I'll take CK simply based on potential. If your argument is that having a better arm and more mobility = being a better QB....then you couldn't be more wrong.

Can't speak for Las but the statement about making throws downfield. Kaepernick does make throws that Smith doesnt make. Greg Cosell talks about this all the time. Alex Smith, at least as a forty-niner, did not like to throw into tight windows. Don't know if he was just real risk averse or the coaching staff forced him to play that way. But Smith, with some exceptions, would rather checkdown than throw into tight spots. No wonder he had so few interceptions but was limited as a passer. While he didn't have a strong arm, I think the issue of his arm strength was overblown. Montana didn't have a strong arm either and couldn't zip balls downfield, but he could put the ball where he needed to.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Can't speak for Las but the statement about making throws downfield. Kaepernick does make throws that Smith doesnt make. Greg Cosell talks about this all the time. Alex Smith, at least as a forty-niner, did not like to throw into tight windows. Don't know if he was just real risk averse or the coaching staff forced him to play that way. But Smith, with some exceptions, would rather checkdown than throw into tight spots. No wonder he had so few interceptions but was limited as a passer. While he didn't have a strong arm, I think the issue of his arm strength was overblown. Montana didn't have a strong arm either and couldn't zip balls downfield, but he could put the ball where he needed to.

I understand that. Kaepernick can make throws that maybe only 2 or so QB's in the league can dream of. Based on overall raw physical abilities, he probably has no peer.

 

[lasportzphan]

If your argument is which pivot is better between Smith and Kaepernick....yes...I'll take CK simply based on potential. If your argument is that having a better arm and more mobility = being a better QB....then you couldn't be more wrong.

More wrong? Who are you, the comic book store guy from the Simpsons?

There are all kinds of intangibles that make QBs great, but ability to locate the football with accuracy at varying depths of the field are paramount. I suppose footwork in the pocket (mobility and extending a play a la Russell Wilson) and decision making are as important.

Decision making, arm strength + accuracy and pocket footwork are what I look for in a QB.

Alex Smith always had difficult with feeling the pocket pressure and reacting accordingly. Often led to a quick toss to the outlet or not properly adjusting within the pocket to buy another second. Don't get me wrong, Smith was tough as nails and could take a hit better than any QB in the league. But some of those hits could have been avoided with better pocket awareness. And plus 15 yards his accuracy could wane.

And just look at the majority of QBs that have won a Superbowl since 1990. All had arm range with accuracy, pocket passers with great decision making ability. There is a template:

1990 - Joe Montana
1991 - Phil Sims
1992 - Mark Rypien
1993 - Troy Aikman
1994 - Troy Aikman
1995 - Steve Young
1996 - Troy Aikman
1997 - Bret Favre
1998 - John Elway
1999 - John Elway
2000 - Kurt Warner
2001 - Trent Dilfer
2002 - Tom Brady
2003 - Brad Johnson
2004 - Tom Brady
2005 - Tom Brady
2006 - Ben Roethlisberger
2007 - Peyton Manning
2008 - Eli Manning
2009 - Big Ben
2010 - Drew Brees
2011 - Aaron Rodgers
2012 - Eli Manning
2013 - Joe Flacco
2014 - Russell Wilson

A few exceptions to the template, but for the most part, quintessential pocket QBs with strong arms arms that can accurately throw anywhere on the field that and read defenses pre and post snap. The most intriguing is Russell Wilson - he's the new breed of QB that can run better than he can throw. He does not have the range of most of the QBs on the list. So, maybe outside the pocket mobility (stretching the play) is becoming a factor in the modern game where the QB is protected? Up until a few years ago, mobility was not a determining factor of Super Bowl success, but in the new NFL you'd be silly to ignore it when a QB displays it.

 

[lasportzphan]

Can't speak for Las but the statement about making throws downfield. Kaepernick does make throws that Smith doesnt make. Greg Cosell talks about this all the time. Alex Smith, at least as a forty-niner, did not like to throw into tight windows. Don't know if he was just real risk averse or the coaching staff forced him to play that way. But Smith, with some exceptions, would rather checkdown than throw into tight spots. No wonder he had so few interceptions but was limited as a passer. While he didn't have a strong arm, I think the issue of his arm strength was overblown. Montana didn't have a strong arm either and couldn't zip balls downfield, but he could put the ball where he needed to.

Kind of disagree about Montana's arm strength. He was not Elway, Favre, Rodgers, Brady - but when he needed some zip he could muster it up. No better example than the 1989 Super Bowl pass to John Taylor. The pass an accurate BB! Watch this drive, he was gunning the ball on throws that required it (even in slo mo the pass has some zip).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-5mLe8n9QI

 

[Ricky Roma]

Uuuhhh OK...I agree with most of that I guess......what's your point?

 

[lasportzphan]

Uuuhhh OK...I agree with most of that I guess......what's your point?

That (especially in the new NFL) mobility and arm strength in harmony with decision making ability (QB IQ) are essential.

So, if deciding between Kaep and Alex Smith, it's a no brainer to which QB displays the attributes that could win the 49ers a Super Bowl.

 

[Ricky Roma]

That (especially in the new NFL) mobility and arm strength in harmony with decision making ability (QB IQ) are essential.

Mobility and arm strength are nice traits and all, but means little if he can't process a field, make accurate throws and possess a certain pocket presence and the 'it' factor.

 

[Ricky Roma]

So, if deciding between Kaep and Alex Smith, it's a no brainer to which QB displays the attributes that could win the 49ers a Super Bowl.

It's a far....FAR bigger no brainer to decide between Kaep and say....Joe Montana. CK has it all over Montana when it comes to the physical abilities, even though Montana was a pretty athletic QB (especially before his back surgery)

That's the essence right there why I care very little about physical abilities alone.

 

[lasportzphan]

Mobility and arm strength are nice traits and all, but means little if he can't process a field, make accurate throws and possess a certain pocket presence and the 'it' factor.

Well, don't be a blowhard and go around telling people they could not be "more wrong" and then fail to define Rickey Roma's "it" factor.

I have no idea if Kaep can process consistently enough in order to win a Super Bowl. I would say the same about Alex Smith. So if the "it" factor is taking arm strength and harmonizing it with accuracy and decision making ability - then I will say Kaep has a leg up on accuracy and arm strength with the final category being undetermined.

But mobility still matters to me in light of the new NFL. If you can run, the NFL will protect you ultimately rewarding a team for a mobile QB.

 

[lasportzphan]

It's a far....FAR bigger no brainer to decide between Kaep and say....Joe Montana. CK has it all over Montana when it comes to the physical abilities, even though Montana was a pretty athletic QB (especially before his back surgery)

That's the essence right there why I care very little about physical abilities alone.

I was talking about Kaep and Smith in my initial post - you got put in your condescending place so lets not rewrite the argument.

However, Joe Montana was a more accurate QB than Kaep to date. While his IQ made up for any arm strength, mobility limitations I now reference mobility because of the new NFL. But yes, I would take Joe over Kaep even now - then again, I never suggested otherwise.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Well, don't be a blowhard and go around telling people they could not be "more wrong" and then fail to define Rickey Roma's "it" factor.

Uhhh, re-read what I stated. I stated that IF your argument on determining a better QB came down to simply who had the better arm and mobility, THEN you couldn't be more wrong. I didn't know what specifically your argument was.

 

[deep9er]

Kaep has a far better arm and mobility than Alex Smith. I don't know why there is even a debate about this anymore. Kaep can make throws Alex could never make downfield.

IF your definition of mobility is within the pocket, don't think there's much of a difference? clearly, Kaep has a stronger arm.

in the RZ, his strong arm isn't as effective, cause it requires short throws.

 

[darken65]

IF your definition of mobility is within the pocket, don't think there's much of a difference? clearly, Kaep has a stronger arm.

in the RZ, his strong arm isn't as effective, cause it requires short throws.

This^^^ I'm hoping Kap has learned to put the correct touch on the ball inside the 20. Dart throws won't work unless his target is wide open. I just didn't see enough in the preseason of Kap to know of any improvement of him at any of his shortcomings.