Series Thread: San Francisco Giants @ Los Angeles Dodgers

[lasportzphan]

Greinke getting solid wood on a 99 MPH pitch. So close to being the first pitcher to get a hit on Bumgarner this year. (Greinke hasn't given up to a pitcher either)

He clobbered that thing. Nice play by Duffy.

Are we really debating the value of strikeouts? Outs suck when your team is batting.
Pop ups
Caught stealing
Picked off
Thrown out on the base paths
GIDP

All suck.

 

[Villain]

I can only assume that a Smed argument is happening. I put him on ignore so I don't see any of his posts. Anyways, since I can see two of you talking about strikeouts again, I might as well chime in.

Yes, all outs count equally in the box score and it takes 3 outs to end an inning. Getting outs is good. The point is that when you're evaluating a pitcher, the more valuable pitchers are the ones that get a higher percentage of strikeouts. The undisputed best pitchers in the game combine a high strikeout percentage with a low batted-ball velocity.

2015 - Batted Ball Velocity (min 190 ABs)
1. Kershaw
2. Sale
3. Arrieta
15. Scherzer
20. Bumgarner

2015 - Strikeout Percentage (SP - Qualified)
1. Sale
2. Kershaw
4. Scherzer
8. Bumgarner
9. Arrieta

Think there's a coincidence there?

All things being equal, the strikeout is the best way for a pitcher to end a plate appearance. Yes, it's possible for a strikeout to end with a wild pitch or passed ball, but that's rare. Pitchers that rely on a very high groundball percentage run the risk of inducing low-velocity groundballs that can find a hole in the defense for a hit, get misplayed, or get legged out by a very fast runner. That happens way way way way way way more often than a strike-three PB/WP.

Obviously there are situations where you want to keep your pitch count down or get a double-play. The argument is not that "any out other than a strikeout is worthless" or some other strawman like that. The argument is that, all things being equal, over the course of a season, strikeouts are more valuable to pitchers. No one is arguing that other outs are worthless. No one is arguing that there aren't situational exceptions.

Look up any list of pitching leaders from any season in baseball history. I guarantee than more times than not, the best pitchers of any given year are also going to be the ones with the higher strikeout percentages.

Therefore, when evaluating the quality of a pitcher, the strikeout percentage is one of* the most valuable stats.


*No, I'm not saying it's an end-all-be-all, ignore-the-other-stats measure of greatness.

 

[Smed55]

Again Villian has to be right! There are plenty of good to great pitchers that aren't strikeout pitchers. True alot of the best are strikeout pitchers!

As far as any given year Villian "guaranteeing" the best pitchers are strikeout pitchers, I'd say that Maddux was the best pitcher for quite a few years, while he may have had his share of strikeouts ,not really a strikeout pitcher. Maybe strikeout pitchers are the best pitchers, but that doesn't make the "strikeout more valuable" , please!!!!!

I do love that he ignores me though, must of been when I called him on his statement that Pederson had only been in a 8 game
slump, when in reality it had been 40 games at that point. Or maybe it was the fact Puig HAS been average over the past two years and his precious "WAR" means shit, when in reality the Dodgers have had a better record in the past two years when Puig is not in the lineup! Or maybe it was when he said don't be surprised to see Latos pitch in relief in the Reds series finale, when any Dodger fan already knew that Latos didn't make the trip!
Or maybe it was when I kept calling him on his precious SAbrmetrics that he totally goes by, yet almost every game I watch they still show the stats they always have gone by avg, HR, RBI, ERA, etc.

SAbrmetrics are something to look at, but they are all based on what if this, or what if that happened on this or that occasion or circumstance. Players are still judged in today's game by the "actual" numbers they put up, their numbers are what they are!
While I hope Puig and Pederson figure it out, right now their numbers speak for themselves!

Love ya Villian!

 

[HammerDown]

Kershaw gets one more batter.

 

[HammerDown]

 

[Silas]

How nice was it to sweep the Giants and create some nice distance between these two clubs? Finally made a statement to the Giants, though I'm sure the Giants have not given up.

Kershaw and Greinke have been incredible, though the bats, while enough to win three games, are still a bit dormant.

Great last three days. Now we can't let down against the Padres.