Ridiculous

[EaseUrStorm]

Wait, are we talking about schools or Congress?

And that is the issue because who are the public schools run by? I have a lot of family members that are in, or have been in that system and it's definitely not getting better. It could be run a lot more efficiently if it was structured differently without so much mid-management fluff.

 

[NinerSickness]

I think this article is a fake.
1.) it's one of those websites where you can submit your own entries
2.) Never heard of a 3 year old going to public school

More conspiracy theories huh? I'm starting to question whether you really can't distinguish reality from made-up or if you're doing this on purpose. I mean one google search would have mae this post unnecessary.

 

[NinerSickness]

And that is the issue because who are the public schools run by? I have a lot of family members that are in, or have been in that system and it's definitely not getting better. It could be run a lot more efficiently if it was structured differently without so much mid-management fluff.

It will never get any better. They don't give two craps about running efficiently; all they care about is how many work days they have to put in and how good their benefits are. They refuse to even contract out the people who mow the lawns, which could save 'em about 70% on that part of the budget when you factor in pensions & other goodies. There isn't a worse run program on planet earth than American public schools. They're archaic and unnecessary. Do kids usually spend the summer harvesting crops any more? No? But we still might as well give them the summer off so they can forget everything they've learned & spend the first 2 months of the school year doing review. Morons.

On top of that, the people in charge of children are so stupid that they can't even see that something like this makes them look like complete assholes. I never met a boy who didn't play with toy guns or pretend to do so. Now they see something that LOOKS like it MIGHT REPRESENT a gun-like figure and they do this:

 

[Rathman44]

the reason our K-12 schools suck is because we don't pay teachers enough to attract the best and the unions protect all the bad teachers from getting fired. I know so many people who would be awesome teachers, but they don't do it because they don't want their family to be so financially strapped. It's not that they don't have a passion for it - I just think they worry more about how they are going to support their family. This environment attracts some who should never be teachers and others who love it so much that they're willing to deal with the low pay. A lot of administrators are corrupt because they're the ones trying to make the money. It's amazing how much more they make than teachers - it's never going to be a productive environment with these sorts of disparities.
Anyways, here are 5 changes I'd like to see made in California, but sadly I don't think we will ever see any of them:

1- get rid of tenure. Bad teachers will be canned. Teacher evaluations will not be based on standardized tests, but rather parent/student/administrator evaluations and in-class assessments by fellow teachers. A review board that is made up of administrators, teachers, and parents will make all final determinations on terminations.

2- Get rid of all pensions. they can invest their savings just like anyone else. In fact, this should be a state-wide prop in a coming election: put a ban on all pensions issued to all state employees. In theory, pensions should work and be easier on the state's budget, but clearly we can't trust Sacramento to carry them out properly.

3- start teachers at 70K, with max raises up to 130K. Attract the best and the brightest. This should be a competitive field to get into. Nothing represents our future more than what we invest in our education. It's time we start doing something about it. Would the unions really turn these changes down if the teachers were to make this kind of dough?

4- administrators of any kind are not allowed to make anymore money than 110% of what the highest paid teachers get. The teachers are the ones doing the real work...it shouldn't be a major bonus to be the one in the office, away from the kids.

5- teachers work year-round and earn their increased pay. No more 3 month summer vacations. Have them put on summer schools that are focussed on music, art, sports, theater, robotics, gardening, cooking, etc. Teachers will have to be able to teach another skill but if we are attracting the best minds with the increased pay, this shouldn't be a problem. These summer schools will help to offset the increased taxes by relieving parents of paying for child-care and day camps during the summer.

I know this would require increased taxes that I'm sure many would complain about but I really think investing in our education is one of the best things we can do for our state. The only drawback I see in this scenario is that even more people will want to move to California.

 

[NinerSickness]

the reason our K-12 schools suck is because we don't pay teachers enough

Stop right there. If you factor in the value of their benefits & pensions, the AVERAGE income for a teacher in California makes over 100K per year, and that will go up if the baby boomers live longer than the past generation did (which they probably will). And that's for working 160 days a year.

You bought a myth.

But I'm with you on getting rid of pensions. That would solve the #1 biggest problem. Pretty soon retired teachers will make more than working teachers in this state. And getting rid of summer break seems like a no-brainer to me as well.

 

[NinerSickness]

...Also, the most important reform should be a rule stating if you freak out when someone makes a gun-like hand gesture, the janitor has to slap you in the face and tell you to get a hold of yourself.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

They don't give two craps about running efficiently; all they care about is how many work days they have to put in and how good their benefits are

You always have to love these people who always know better on every issue, even though they've never worked a day in the field. They can read one or two internet stories and understand the issue better than the administrators who are dealing with this stuff every day......because of course, these administrators are greedy and self-absorbed, as opposed to our virtuous and selfless message board posters who would always do the right thing.

I mean, no one that works in schools cares at all, they are just greedy. And no doubt that 100K average in California is honest and accurate....totally. You have to love ideologues.

 

[NinerSickness]

You always have to love these people who always know better on every issue, even though they've never worked a day in the field. They can read one or two internet stories and understand the issue better than the administrators who are dealing with this stuff every day......because of course, these administrators are greedy and self-absorbed, as opposed to our virtuous and selfless message board posters who would always do the right thing.

I mean, no one that works in schools cares at all, they are just greedy. And no doubt that 100K average in California is honest and accurate....totally. You have to love ideologues.

doodoo, the 100K figure is 100% accurate. I've gone over this before in detail; the pensions cause the cost of teachers to skyrocket, but they never talk about that when they talk about their salaries. I've been watching this kind of stuff my enire life. I have family in the public school system that tells me all kinds of stuff that almost noboody else hears (like when I saw receipts for $1200 office chairs). I'll be training in the credential program very soon.

You're diverting from the facts by shifting the focus on me. It's a common, lame tactic for the many publlic school apologists out there.

 

[SY8goat]

You have to remember, teachers don't get paid for the hours they put in to grade the class work and homework they assign to students. They're paid from the time students arrive to time students leave. That's it. Teachers usually don't receive any compensation for calling parents after school or staying late to tutor a student that's doing poorly. Plus, not every teacher gets to teach highly motivated students. IMO, they have a tough job.

 

[NinerSickness]

160 working days a year + grading papers & calling parents does not equal a lot of working hours in a year.

 

[SY8goat]

160 working days a year + grading papers & calling parents does not equal a lot of working hours in a year.

Those were just a couple of examples. You think teachers pull the daily assignments/activities out of there ass or something?

 

[Smart]

You have to remember, teachers don't get paid for the hours they put in to grade the class work and homework they assign to students. They're paid from the time students arrive to time students leave. That's it. Teachers usually don't receive any compensation for calling parents after school or staying late to tutor a student that's doing poorly. Plus, not every teacher gets to teach highly motivated students. IMO, they have a tough job.

You know that Mr. Feeny is fictional, right?

Teachers are underpaid in many parts of the country (mostly rural). They are also overpaid in many cities, and yet those cities produce worse results than the rural areas. Look at Chicago where the average teacher pay is $78K (not counting benefits), and they just arranged a 12% pay raise. That's an average of $86k in a city where the average person makes about half that. They have tenure, full benefits, and get 2/3 of their income in retirement, which normally is $85k per year.

This means two Chicago public school teachers would make approximately $10 Million in their life with complete job security and much less hours than the general public. Despite this, the results in Chicago stink. It's not because the city is filled with bad teachers. In fact, they are quite good. The reason is that school districts aren't the problem. We have the best public schools in the world. We just don't have the best parents in the world. Money to perfectly functional school districts wont change that.

 

[NinerSickness]

Those were just a couple of examples. You think teachers pull the daily assignments/activities out of there ass or something?

Like I said, I'm starting the credential program soon. I've been around teachers my entire life. I know what goes into teaching. I'm not saying the job is easy; the hardest part is just being able to manage a classroom and having patience to deal with children (& sometimes really bad parents). What I'm saying is the hours are miniscule and the pay is extremely high for the amount of hours they work.

 

[SY8goat]

Like I said, I'm starting the credential program soon. I've been around teachers my entire life. I know what goes into teaching. I'm not saying the job is easy; the hardest part is just being able to manage a classroom and having patience to deal with children (& sometimes really bad parents). What I'm saying is the hours are miniscule and the pay is extremely high for the amount of hours they work.

Well good luck with that part! Hopefully, you don't have deal with those types of parents.

 

[MHSL82]

160 working days a year + grading papers & calling parents does not equal a lot of working hours in a year.

I am not getting into the debate because my mom is a teacher (she was a pediatrician for 20 years before going to teach), so I'd be biased seeing how much work she does.

But I wanted to share a funny editorial about how if you paid the teachers the going rate for babysitting with an right hour day for 35 students, they'd make nearly 450K a year (160 days x 8 hours x 35 kids x 10 dollars an hour = 448K). You could change that to 30 kids or 6 hours or $8/hr, but you get the point 230K if all those changes were made to the numbers(.

I don't take it that seriously because they are not the same thing, just wanted to share. If I find the link, I will post it. I am not making an argument, here.

 

[NinerSickness]

Well good luck with that part! Hopefully, you don't have deal with those types of parents.

Thanks, but it's probably going to be inevitable. The teachers in whose classrooms I've worked all have some parental horror stories they've told me.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

I am not getting into the debate because my mom is a teacher (she was a pediatrician for 20 years before going to teach), so I'd be biased seeing how much work she does.

But I wanted to share a funny editorial about how if you paid the teachers the going rate for babysitting with an right hour day for 35 students, they'd make nearly 450K a year (160 days x 8 hours x 35 kids x 10 dollars an hour = 448K). You could change that to 30 kids or 6 hours or $8/hr, but you get the point 230K if all those changes were made to the numbers(.

I don't take it that seriously because they are not the same thing, just wanted to share. If I find the link, I will post it. I am not making an argument, here.

That's funny and I think I actually am getting to hate those stupid editorials. Anyone could do this nonsense with any extra work they end up doing at their own job. I know there was a similar housewife editorial out there stating they are worth over $100k a year or some ridiculous number. It was just so absurd, and kept a running tally of all the jobs being done. Now I'm a babysitter, now I'm a maid, now I'm a taxi driver, delivery person here, now I'm this, now I'm that... these editorials typically fail to factor in expenses, competition, market realities or any other realities.

You can make that type of money at daycares, but there are expenses too. And if you get success you will inevitably get competition because it's not a difficult business to replicate. A teacher also doesn't take on any business risk associated with starting up the business, and doesn't have to do any marketing to get the kids, or networking, or keeping track of the numbers, etc. etc. etc.

 

[geneh_33]

Ridiculous is right. Very right. Who are these wusses who want this kid to change up the only language he uses to express himself? It's pitiful.

 

[Rathman44]

Stop right there. If you factor in the value of their benefits & pensions, the AVERAGE income for a teacher in California makes over 100K per year, and that will go up if the baby boomers live longer than the past generation did (which they probably will). And that's for working 160 days a year.

You bought a myth.

But I'm with you on getting rid of pensions. That would solve the #1 biggest problem. Pretty soon retired teachers will make more than working teachers in this state. And getting rid of summer break seems like a no-brainer to me as well.

Never heard that one before. Please enlighten us with a breakdown of that OVER-100K figure.

 

[NinerSickness]

Never heard that one before. Please enlighten us with a breakdown of that OVER-100K figure.

I've gone over it in painstaking detail before on the ESPN forum, which I don't want to do again. But basically it's average California salary salary + average pension times [(average age of death minus retirement age) divided by average number of years in a career]

It's been over $100K per year for a long time, and it's constantly going up with people living longer. I haven't done the breakdown for a few years, but I'll bet it's closer to $110K now (dno't quote me on that; it's just a guess).

By the way, the latest average teacher salary number I've seen for Teachers in California (without factoring in any benefits) is $67,871.

The CALSTRS budget (retired teachers) is soon going to be greater than the entire budget for K-12 schools. Switch to a 401K, and that would solve a HUGE part of the problem in one fell swoop (but that has't happened because CTA is the single biggest political contributor in the history of mankind, and they're unbeatable in California).