Ridiculous

[EaseUrStorm]

A lot of professionals are required to get certifications, etc. and you could try to dig up that data. But if you really want to go down that road, how about factoring in an adjustment for job stability? That would balance that extra class work right out. I know it's a touchy subject with the total hours, but I will never buy that an average teacher puts in nearly as many hours over the course of a full year as a compared to a full year worker with two weeks vacation. Teachers can work more hours and really drive down what they earn per hour, but that also happens on the other side as well.

Many jobs basically factor in the equivalent to that classwork/student teaching when a new hire is thrown into the fire with very little pay out of college. That would be another good thing to dig up. And then it's typical to have to go to a competitor to get paid to market. That's just the way that it works.

 

[NinerSickness]

This leaves the low income area schools with the less competent or extremely young teachers while the rich kids get the top of the line and experienced ones.

In most major cities you have what boils down to rich and poor districts. The idea of public education is to give all students the same opportunity. By privatizing it, you remove that level playing field and are rewarding children for their parents' bank accounts, but also punishing them if their parents are not well off.

For the kind of money that goes into schools per student in California right now, there wouldn't be a school in the state that lacked teachers who were far superiour to the ones we have today. Right now, the state spends about $15K per student per year, but it's actually $21,493 per year per student (as of 2010) if you factor in the pension budget. That's $687,776 per classroom per year. Without the pensions, the red tape, the army of bureaucrats (60% of school faculties in CA are not teachers) like custodians & landscapers who have the same benefits teachers do, the private sector could get classroom sizes down to 12 while paying teachers $50,000 - $100,000 a year easily (more pay for better teachers). Even in the poorest neighbourhoods. And they'd still probably make a huge profit. As a teacher, can you imagine how much more you could teach 12 kids than you could 32?

You lament that richer parents will send their kids to better schools, but that happens today anyway! They're called private schools, and they kick the collective crap out of public schools on about 1/3 of the budget. I'm not as interested in ensuring that everyone has the identical crappy education as I am interested in everyone getting a better education than what's being offered now. I'd rather poor kids get a 6 & rich kids get a 10 than have all kids get a 3.

If you're trying to stop rich parents from using their money to improve their kids' education, then I don't support that. Stopping them doesn't mean poor kids' educations are any better. And like I said, they already do that with private schools; except they also have to pay for public schools on top of the private tuition. So all public schools do is create a hugely expensive monopoly & only allow rich kids to break out of it. Not just richer kids; REALLY rich kids. In my scenario, even the poorest kids could afford the tuiton to what is currently out there in the private sector. Even the most expensive & best private schools in my area (Sacramento) cost around $12K per year. That's a little over half half what public schools cost when you include pensions (and wait 'til the baby boomers retire; that number is going to skyrocket). And class sizes are about 12-15 kids per teacher (VS 32 in public).
And what you described happens today anyway. The best public teachers already want to teach in the best areas, so poorest areas get stuck with the worst teachers. If parents had vouchers, they could basically send their kids to the same schools where rich kids go now, and they could do so for about half the cost.

 

[Bemular]

NinerSickness this guy clealy has his calculations screwed up as he is not adding in the future pension benefit into current salary.

The Shocking Truth About How Much Teachers Actually Get Paid

Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do – babysit!

We can get that for less than minimum wage.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan– that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day.

However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.
LET’S SEE….

That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!!

 

[MHSL82]

NinerSickness this guy clealy has his calculations screwed up as he is not adding in the future pension benefit into current salary.

The Shocking Truth About How Much Teachers Actually Get Paid

Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do – babysit!

We can get that for less than minimum wage.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan– that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day.

However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.
LET’S SEE….

That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!!

Hey! This is the article I was referring to above but I couldn't for the life of me find. I went on Google and looked up teachers pay, glorified babysitting, etc., no dice. It must have been circulated to other newspapers because I couldn't find it in the online archives of the one I read it on. I asked a friend how to look it up because he works for the local newspaper, and he said to come to his work and they have past years of stuff. No thanks, that's too much work. But I might go look at the sports section one day. Good find, Bem.

 

[Bemular]

Hey! This is the article I was referring to above but I couldn't for the life of me find. I went on Google and looked up teachers pay, glorified babysitting, etc., no dice. It must have been circulated to other newspapers because I couldn't find it in the online archives of the one I read it on. I asked a friend how to look it up because he works for the local newspaper, and he said to come to his work and they have past years of stuff. No thanks, that's too much work. But I might go look at the sports section one day. Good find, Bem.

I thought it was appropriate for the thread and apparently, so did you.

But, as I mentioned, the author obviously doesn't know you are supposed to add future earnings to current earnings to derive "net" current earnings. So, I thought I would let NinerSickness know so he could perhaps go and educate the poor soul.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm going to break my rule about not responding to Bemular. Usually I just ignore him because he's about as coherent as the cat throwing lady from the Simpsons, but this is a subject that is near and dear to me.

YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. The $102,813 per year figure is equal to what California pays the average teacher IF THEY HAD NO RETIREMENT BENEFITS. Even you should be able to understand this one.

$67,871 / YR + Pension payments after retirement...
or
$67,871 / YR + $34,942 Invested in 10-year bonds + No Pension...

By the time the teacher is 86.1 years old, THEY\ TOTALS WOULD BE EQUAL!!!

Go back and take a Jr. High algebra class. You are the worst debater I've ever heard in my life. Nothing you say even begins to make the least bit of sense.

 

[NinerSickness]

By the way, teaching a class and babysitting 32 children is not even close to the same thing. Teachers don't come to your house at night and feed, bathe & put to bed 32 children.

If you paid them a babysitter's salary, they would have to rent a school (or at least one class and a the playground) for the day and there would be zero support staff (janitors, office, yard duties, etc). The idea is ludicrous. It's kind of like those studies that say stay-at-home moms are providing equal value to cab drivers + chefs, + babysitters + psychiatirists, etc. over the course of the day & are worth over $100K a year. They're both stupid analogies.

 

[NinerSickness]

I forgot to add that in the babysitter analogy, the teacher would have to pick up & take home all 32 kids.

 

[NinerSickness]

Speaking of algebra, I have a mathematical way of explaining this.

If you graph both (1) $102,813 / year & (2) teachers' current salaries + pensions, the two lines would intersect at 86.1 years.

 

[imac_21]

By the way, teaching a class and babysitting 32 children is not even close to the same thing. Teachers don't come to your house at night and feed, bathe & put to bed 32 children.

If you paid them a babysitter's salary, they would have to rent a school (or at least one class and a the playground) for the day and there would be zero support staff (janitors, office, yard duties, etc). The idea is ludicrous. It's kind of like those studies that say stay-at-home moms are providing equal value to cab drivers + chefs, + babysitters + psychiatirists, etc. over the course of the day & are worth over $100K a year. They're both stupid analogies.

I'm just going to issue a quick "fuck you" for the first paragraph here.

 

[dredinis21]

I'm sorry but the idea that the avg income of a teacher in CA is 67k is somewhat laughable to me considering that LA Unified starts their teachers at like 32k and it is one of the biggest public sector school districts in the state. If you count administrators, making over 100k per and with a MINIMUM of 5 administrators per school facility, then I could believe that number.

My problem is this. I was part of the generation that was told to be a policeman, be a firefighter, be a teacher, be a nurse. Many of my friends became teachers because although the pay was piss poor, there was "job stability" (Hey, we always need teachers, right?) and a good pension to offset. People who think teachers clock in at 8am and clock out at 3pm while not doing shit else is delusional. What is killing our education system is a lack of self auditing, allowing tenure to occur, and bureacracies to form within our public school systems. There are far too many people not worthy of their paychecks getting paid while our teachers are not. You can go ahead and point to summer vacations, you can point to pensions, as a way of downplaying the need to pay them, but I'm of the belief that the good teachers deserve to be paid according to the services they provide. You wouldn't expect Larry Grant to make Patrick Willis money, would you? But did you have much problem with Willis making 10 mil?

 

[erckm510]

I forgot to add that in the babysitter analogy, the teacher would have to pick up & take home all 32 kids.

Sickness I don't think you know what a babysitter does. Use nanny perhaps?

 

[Rvnight18]

Fix eduction? Get the federal government out and unions out. Neither care for the kids. Only the teachers do. Pay them what they deserve, and get rid of tenure. Dumbest thing ever.

 

[SEC Official]

Well the obvious solution if I were his father... hunter, your new sign name at school is ...

maybe...

 

[SEC Official]

I think this article is a fake.
1.) it's one of those websites where you can submit your own entries
2.) Never heard of a 3 year old going to public school

Nope.... it appears real .. here is the link to huffington post article and video of the kid...

Hunter Spanjer, 3-Year-Old Deaf Boy, Told By Preschool To Change Way He Signs His Name (VIDEO)

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm just going to issue a quick "fuck you" for the first paragraph here.

imac, I wasn't saying one job is easier or harder or more more important than the other. I was saying they're completely different. A babysitter is like a taxi cab. You call one when you need one, and they come immediately. They charge way more per person than a bus (teachers); but a bus can take far more people, and the bus goes by its own schedule.

Calm down. You're a smart guy. You know it's apples & oranges.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm sorry but the idea that the avg income of a teacher in CA is 67k is somewhat laughable to me considering that LA Unified starts their teachers at like 32k and it is one of the biggest public sector school districts in the state. If you count administrators, making over 100k per and with a MINIMUM of 5 administrators per school facility, then I could believe that number.

I wasn't counting administrators. Just teachers. And I posted 1 source & someone else posted another; they both have the same 67K figure.

This is what I'm talking about. I post facts & figures & people still can't believe it because all they've ever heard their entire lives is how destitute teachers are.

 

[NinerSickness]

Sickness I don't think you know what a babysitter does. Use nanny perhaps?

I know what a babysitter does. I wasn't the one who compared teachers to babysitters. That dumbass article did. Depending on the age, a babysitter will feed, bathe & put a kid to bed. And teenagers don't even need a babysitter, so that's another area where the comparison is stupid. My point was that you can't compare the 2 professions. A babysitter comes to your house. Teachers have children delivered to them. Then there are all the other differences I mentioned like babysitters are provided by parents a place to perform their service while teachers have a school. Etc. It's not the same thing.

 

[NinerSickness]

Sickness I don't think you know what a babysitter does. Use nanny perhaps?

I know what a babysitter does. I wasn't the one who compared teachers to babysitters. That dumbass article did. Depending on the age, a babysitter will feed, bathe & put a kid to bed. And teenagers don't even need a babysitter, so that's another area where the comparison is stupid. My point was that you can't compare the 2 professions. A babysitter comes to your house. Teachers have children delivered to them. Then there are all the other differences I mentioned like babysitters are provided by parents a place to perform their service while teachers have a school. Babysitters work a sporadic schedule on call (mostly nights). And they work rarely while teachers work M-F. Etc. It's not the same thing.