Report : Raw Staying With NBC Universal, Smackdown will not.

[wildturkey]

Another point...

How does a billionaire entrupenuer not look at these contracts and think about getting into wrestling business. I don't mean Sinclair with ROH, I mean a new Ted Turner

Well its easy for WWE because they're established. No other company would get even remotely close to those numbers even if someone came along and invested a bunch to form a solid #2. I think the most likely scenario is if All In is a big success, I could see a group of smaller investors or perhaps even Cody and the Bucks themselves pitching a show to an online distributor (ie Netflix, Amazon) with maybe that distributor being co-investors. It's much smaller scale, cheaper, but would be a good attraction to drive subscribers.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Well its easy for WWE because they're established. No other company would get even remotely close to those numbers even if someone came along and invested a bunch to form a solid #2. I think the most likely scenario is if All In is a big success, I could see a group of smaller investors or perhaps even Cody and the Bucks themselves pitching a show to an online distributor (ie Netflix, Amazon) with maybe that distributor being co-investors. It's much smaller scale, cheaper, but would be a good attraction to drive subscribers.

Funny.

That is what i've been saying for years....

I want to see All-In . If that is a success then there might be some real competition but for now let's continue with this game of chicken.

 

[futballiscool]

Well its easy for WWE because they're established. No other company would get even remotely close to those numbers even if someone came along and invested a bunch to form a solid #2. I think the most likely scenario is if All In is a big success, I could see a group of smaller investors or perhaps even Cody and the Bucks themselves pitching a show to an online distributor (ie Netflix, Amazon) with maybe that distributor being co-investors. It's much smaller scale, cheaper, but would be a good attraction to drive subscribers.

Again I don't agree with the "established" idea in regards to the brand.

I think people are overrating how important the brand is. What would be important is having established star power on the new show. With internet hype and some semblance of a marketing budget I think you could have a new, highly visible wrestling brand in under a month.

I'm not an expert on TV, wrestling, or TV on wrestling but this logistical scenario seems common sense to me....

You don't need to worry about PPVs, house shows, wrestlemania stadium shows, merch etc.

100-200 million per year is now the going rate for a wrestling show that draws 2.5-3 million viewers a week.

Let's say ESPN was one of suitors that drove the bidding up to that point. If they thought Raw was worth close to 150 Million dollars a year what would stop them from giving John Cena a blank check and getting Jim Ross or Paul Heyman to head creative and forming a new company? Before I get push back on how Cena is semi-retired and an actor, we're talking tens of million dollars a year and he doesn't need to do house shows. Just 1 tv show a week. He could get back into acting later.

I think the new TV number changes everything.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Again I don't agree with the "established" idea in regards to the brand.

I think people are overrating how important the brand is. What would be important is having established star power on the new show. With internet hype and some semblance of a marketing budget I think you could have a new, highly visible wrestling brand in under a month.

I'm not an expert on TV, wrestling, or TV on wrestling but this logistical scenario seems common sense to me....

You don't need to worry about PPVs, house shows, wrestlemania stadium shows, merch etc.

100-200 million per year is now the going rate for a wrestling show that draws 2.5-3 million viewers a week.

Let's say ESPN was one of suitors that drove the bidding up to that point. If they thought Raw was worth close to 150 Million dollars a year what would stop them from giving John Cena a blank check and getting Jim Ross or Paul Heyman to head creative and forming a new company? Before I get push back on how Cena is semi-retired and an actor, we're talking tens of million dollars a year and he doesn't need to do house shows. Just 1 tv show a week. He could get back into acting later.

I think the new TV number changes everything.

Impact has been going for well over a decade and never came close to a million let alone 2.5-3 viewers. WWE is a proven commodity and no one is going to pay an unproven commodity anything even remotely close to what WWE is being paid no matter how well heeled that unproven commodity is.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Those companies aren't what I have mind.
I'm talking about a Ted Turner model circa 95. Someone with unlimited funds who's willing to invest serious capital in wrestling.

I'll only use Cuban as an example because he's tacitly connected to the wrestling business through the AXS/NJPW partnership. There's a 99 percent chance he has no interest in starting a company but he'll work as the hypothetical billionaire. Let's say he's willing to sign CM Punk, a handful of the high profile independent wrestlers, Paul Heyman for head of creative, and poach a handful of high profile WWE wrestlers when their contracts expire. What type of rating could that draw? What is that worth with the new market set this week?

It's also worth noting that the biggest non-WWE wrestling event America's had in close to 2 decades sold out in a half hour and has tickets going for hundreds of dollars on Stub hub right now.

If nobody sees the value in a big investment in wrestling right now I doubt it ever happens

Couple things:

1) The difference with Turner is that he bought an established promotion (although it was struggling at the time) that had people who had extensive experience on the booking end. If Cuban or another billionaire were to start a wrestling company, would he really know who to hire to book and run the programs?

2) With the all-in show, a large reason it's a hot item is because it's a one-time thing and there's a lot of suspense as to who will appear. I don't think that's something that's sustainable if they were to do this weekly.

 

[futballiscool]

Impact has been going for well over a decade and never came close to a million let alone 2.5-3 viewers. WWE is a proven commodity and no one is going to pay an unproven commodity anything even remotely close to what WWE is being paid no matter how well heeled that unproven commodity is.

I'm not talking about Impact. I've explained that in all of my prior posts.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Well its easy for WWE because they're established. No other company would get even remotely close to those numbers even if someone came along and invested a bunch to form a solid #2. I think the most likely scenario is if All In is a big success, I could see a group of smaller investors or perhaps even Cody and the Bucks themselves pitching a show to an online distributor (ie Netflix, Amazon) with maybe that distributor being co-investors. It's much smaller scale, cheaper, but would be a good attraction to drive subscribers.

I think the biggest factor is IF Cody and the Bucks want to become full timer promoters and risk their cash and time???? There is a big difference between producing a one off show and a reoccurring show. The biggest problem smaller scale cheaper show have is keeping talent. Someone bigger comes along (WWE, ROH, Impact) and steals your best talent by offering them more money. With that constant talent turnover it is very hard to maintain momentum and interest from fans. There have been smaller scale cheaper shows recently Lucha America (I think I got that right) for one on smaller networks but they don't get paid anything close to WWE's numbers.

Now that I think about this, with ROH's new Network Honor Club they have already gone this smaller cheaper route. so it could work but how much money is in it is a big question.

 

[futballiscool]

Couple things:

1) The difference with Turner is that he bought an established promotion (although it was struggling at the time) that had people who had extensive experience on the booking end. If Cuban or another billionaire were to start a wrestling company, would he really know who to hire to book and run the programs?

2) With the all-in show, a large reason it's a hot item is because it's a one-time thing and there's a lot of suspense as to who will appear. I don't think that's something that's sustainable if they were to do this weekly.

These are fair points

1. When WCW was beating the shit out of the WWF it was in large part because Turner opened his check book and they presented an edgier product. That's literally all I think it would take right now. Raw was borderline unwatchable last night. With viral internet hype and general marketing I think you could have a new brand in a minute.

2. I agree the novelty factor was a big part of All In's success. It's the wrestlemania concept where the novelty of the event could be sustained once a year and not once a week. Still I don't think All In would have been this type of success 10, 5, or even 3 years ago. Something is happening in wrestling at a grassroots level. If someone with money steps in there's a true market for an alternative. All In is an indicator of it

 

[futballiscool]

Impact has been going for well over a decade and never came close to a million let alone 2.5-3 viewers. WWE is a proven commodity and no one is going to pay an unproven commodity anything even remotely close to what WWE is being paid no matter how well heeled that unproven commodity is.

Also it did well over a million when Hogan debuted

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

I'm not talking about Impact. I've explained that in all of my prior posts.

Impact had big money behind them in Panda Energy, so they're a perfect example of what your saying. You don't want to use them because they failed.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Also it did well over a million when Hogan debuted

I don't remember that. I thought they briefly got close and immediately fell right back where they were before Hogan.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Also it did well over a million when Hogan debuted

Oh, so they brought in big names and a known promoter (Bischoff) like you're saying and still failed miserably.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

These are fair points

1. When WCW was beating the shit out of the WWF it was in large part because Turner opened his check book and they presented an edgier product. That's literally all I think it would take right now. Raw was borderline unwatchable last night. With viral internet hype and general marketing I think you could have a new brand in a minute.

2. I agree the novelty factor was a big part of All In's success. It's the wrestlemania concept where the novelty of the event could be sustained once a year and not once a week. Still I don't think All In would have been this type of success 10, 5, or even 3 years ago. Something is happening in wrestling at a grassroots level. If someone with money steps in there's a true market for an alternative. All In is an indicator of it

Yes you could have a new brand in a moment but will anybody watch in the first place and if they do watch once, keep watching??? And no one will give you big money until you can prove people will keep watching.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I wish someone could come along and challenge Vince and get him out of his boring comfort zone again, But no one is even close to doing that today and no upstart is going to do it either. The wrestling business just doesn't work that way.

The NFL environment is the same way right now. You have 2 upstart promotions trying to horn in on the money and the supposed weakness of the NFL right now. One of them rum by Vince, but is anyone taking either of them seriously right now, No. But if eitehr one of them garners sustained rating and we'll all sit up and take notice.

 

[futballiscool]

Impact had big money behind them in Panda Energy, so they're a perfect example of what your saying. You don't want to use them because they failed.

I'm not talking Sinclair, Panda Energy or any other disengaged source of money trying to make a modest profit or limit their losses as a vanity project.

I mean a competently run, well funded wrestling company that's trying to compete at the highest level.

Why is now the right time for it? Because the upside is a billion dollar TV deal.

I am hearing a lot if reasons why nobody can compete with the WWE and I simply don't agree with them

 

[futballiscool]

Oh, so they brought in big names and a known promoter (Bischoff) like you're saying and still failed miserably.

They brought in old timers and mixed them with WWE retreads and wrestlers from the indies with no mainstream name value.

That's not what I'm describing. Again, see prior posts

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

They brought in old timers and mixed them with WWE retreads and wrestlers from the indies with no mainstream name value.

That's not what I'm describing. Again, see prior posts

Yes you are. Proven talents from WWE and a known booker. That's what Impact tried and failed. And your position that Panda and Sinclair aren't/weren't trying to make money is ludicrous. Everyone who has tried to complete head-to-head with WWE in the past has ultimately failed.

The billionaires who you think would invest in this are well versed in econ and know very well what kind of market and product wrestling is. They won't touch this kind of market/product with a ten foot pole. Too high risk, too high a chance of losing your shirt and your house and car for very little reward. I could give you an economics lesson on why but I doubt it would sink in. Let me know if your interested in the econ details.

 

[futballiscool]

Yes you are. Proven talents from WWE and a known booker. That's what Impact tried and failed. And your position that Panda and Sinclair aren't/weren't trying to make money is ludicrous. Everyone who has tried to complete head-to-head with WWE in the past has ultimately failed.

The billionaires who you think would invest in this are well versed in econ and know very well what kind of market and product wrestling is. They won't touch this kind of market/product with a ten foot pole. Too high risk, too high a chance of losing your shirt and your house and car for very little reward. I could give you an economics lesson on why but I doubt it would sink in. Let me know if your interested in the econ details.

TNA became Dixie Carter's pet vanity project. That is not the equivalent of Panda Energy going all in on a wrestling company. Sinclair is looking for cheap product for their syndicated TV network. Again not the same thing.

Signing Hogan in 2010 is not the same as signing Hogan and the biggest names in the WWF in 1995.

Devil's advocate, if you and every other poster here is right and there's no interest in starting up a new, major TV centric wrestling company as the rights to air Raw and SD are quadrupled then I throw in the towel and it's a monopoly

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

They brought in old timers and mixed them with WWE retreads and wrestlers from the indies with no mainstream name value.

That's not what I'm describing. Again, see prior posts

Yes you are. That's exactly what you described. You said bring in Paul Heyman (proven booker but out of the booking game for almost 2 decades now), sign indie talent (which by definition has no mainstream name value, and sign WWE talent who's contracts are up (retreads).

Are you trying to change your story now that we've ripped your position to shreds???

We don't agree that you can just wave a magic money wand and create a wrestling promotion out of thin air that will immediately garner the kind of money deals WWE does. Many have already tried and failed and what WWE gets and does isn't any barometer of successes for anybody else in their industry. Unless someone comes up with some new innovative technological advance in the product (WWE is already ahead of this with their own Network and VoD service), it won't change anytime soon, if ever.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

TNA became Dixie Carter's pet vanity project. That is not the equivalent of Panda Energy going all in on a wrestling company. Sinclair is looking for cheap product for their syndicated TV network. Again not the same thing.

Signing Hogan in 2010 is not the same as signing Hogan and the biggest names in the WWF in 1995.

Devil's advocate, if you and every other poster here is right and there's no interest in starting up a new, major TV centric wrestling company as the rights to air Raw and SD are quadrupled then I throw in the towel and it's a monopoly

Wrong! So you think TNA and Dixie put (tens or hundreds of) millions in TNA without expecting a return on investment. You know nothing about business.

You're close but it's not quite a monopoly, yet. WWE is moving that way though. Just look at their worldwide Network expansion and their startup of overseas promotions (Britain for one) for proof.

 

[Racer8825]

They're not paying for one wrestler, they're paying for the whole show. Creative drives the show/ratings and not one wrestler's appearance or lack of.

Ratings could drop off if highly marketable wrestlers don't appear on live television. Just keep that in mind.