Reedy's 12 days left - Rosterology

[kramer1]

Burkhead will be cut. He's just not as good as the other 2.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Burkhead will be cut. He's just not as good as the other 2.

Herron didn't look very good last year in preseason except in special teams. He hasn't done much this year running the ball either until his big run. Outside that one single run, he has not looked good at all carrying the ball.

Burkhead has been impressive with the rock in his hands every time he gets it. I think Burkhead might "almost" be as good as Bernard carrying the football, but not nearly as good pass catching. Why would we want to lose that good of a backup running the football? Plus, he is white, you of all people should appreciate that Kramer. lol

 

[cincygrad]

You can't just magically hope your tight end is a good blocker as an H-back or fullback. Charles hasn't gotten it done and doesn't deserve a roster spot. It's really as simple as that..... If you'd like to struggle on every third and forth and short, I suppose we could keep him, but I'd rather just convert.

As for late round picks.... We cut or PS three or more of these guys every year. Guys drafted after the 5th round should never be a lock on a contender. Maybe on a rebuilding project, but not a roster like ours.

Rex has not beaten out Boom in camp. Great message it sends to your guys when you keep an inferior 6th rounder with no experience over another 6th rounder that showed promise on ST and has looked good in camp (apparently).

 

[DanBengalfan]

they are similar guys aren't they?

 

[CrashDavisSports]

You can't just magically hope your tight end is a good blocker as an H-back or fullback. Charles hasn't gotten it done and doesn't deserve a roster spot. It's really as simple as that..... If you'd like to struggle on every third and forth and short, I suppose we could keep him, but I'd rather just convert.

As for late round picks.... We cut or PS three or more of these guys every year. Guys drafted after the 5th round should never be a lock on a contender. Maybe on a rebuilding project, but not a roster like ours.

Rex has not beaten out Boom in camp. Great message it sends to your guys when you keep an inferior 6th rounder with no experience over another 6th rounder that showed promise on ST and has looked good in camp (apparently).

Burkhead is a much better RB. ST be damned. That is all there is to it really.

 

[cincygrad]

Burkhead is a much better RB. ST be damned. That is all there is to it really.

There are absolutely no data to support this argument. None.

 

[Be Weary of Query]

I wonder if a team (the Dolphins?) would have any interest in trading for Charles?

 

[NCBengal]

I look at the RB situation this way... which player has more upside.

Herron is only ever going to be a ST person, that's it.

Burkehead gives you more options.

I guarantee if we release Burkehead, he will become the next Danny Woodhead while Herron is still running down the field on kick offs and punts.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Burkhead is a much better RB. ST be damned. That is all there is to it really.

Except, you know, Herron has more carries, more yards, and a full yard more in YPC this pre-season. Also, he's a more established ST guy.

Look, this position is going to be the last guy used in a worst case scenario...This is more about how immediately can the player contribute to this team and help them win now. That's Herron based on his special teams play last year. He's also shown that he can help in the running game, even if he's not as talented as Burkhead.

This spot is not exactly a place for a guy who some day down the road might be a 3rd down back or a back-up guy. They draft those guys in the 1, 2, 3rd rounds and plug them in as such. See: Gio.

If this team has a window of 2-3 years, this spot will be more about ST help and less about development for a spot down the road.


I can't believe I'm defending Herron, either. I hate the suckeyes. Ugh. See what you are making me do! LOL

 

[vancelot23]

I have a feeling that Herron's college affiliation is affecting this discussion for some.

 

[cincygrad]

I have a feeling that Herron's college affiliation is affecting this discussion for some.

Let me point out that I have been a strong advocate for Herron and I HATE OSU -- Absolutely hate them.

I'm just not as retarded as their fans that have constantly ragged on Leon Hall even as he has turned into one of the best corners in the league.

I'll counter with the notion that Burkhead's rare status (a white running back) influences the other side. Don't believe me? Ask yourself why a running back that gained less than 1200 yards for a 5 win team made it to the cover of Madden.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yeah, I am not a big fan of most OSU players, especially as pro's over the recent years, though I could be wrong. Doesn't seem like they've done all that well.

Regardless, it depends on what the final determination is. If it's based on ability to slip through waivers, then I realize that Herron will get cut as he's most likely to make it through waivers. However, if that is not a worry for the coaches, then Burkhead would get the ax based on the fact that Herron does what is needed and provides more immediate help in the overall role that he will fill.

I worry less about whether Burkhead will develop into a RB, starting or backup for the simple reason that RB's are a dime a dozen anymore in the NFL. The emphasis on getting guys who can do multiple things, and run with multiple RB's has de-emphisized the position as a whole. You just don't find too many teams with an ADP, or T-Rich, or Foster where they are going to attach 95% of the RB touches to just one guy. The more teams spread things out, the more teams are going to employ several RB's.

 

[Tubbs1518]

You want to keep Herron for STs but if he is our 4th RB he won't be active on game day.....so why are we keeping him again. Hobson already reported Burkhead is backing up Peerman at his special teams spots at camp, so what does Herron bring? You keep Burkhead because you are more likely to lose him and you PS Herron. Then if Peerman gets injured you bring Herron up from the PS. Simple and the best option.

 

[Cincyfan78]

You want to keep Herron for STs but if he is our 4th RB he won't be active on game day.....so why are we keeping him again. Hobson already reported Burkhead is backing up Peerman at his special teams spots at camp, so what does Herron bring? You keep Burkhead because you are more likely to lose him and you PS Herron. Then if Peerman gets injured you bring Herron up from the PS. Simple and the best option.

He was active enough last year to block 2 punts on special teams last year. 4th RB doesn't have to be inactive if he can contribute on special teams.

I agree that Herron makes more sense to cut as he'll be more likely to clear waivers, but as I'm saying, if that is NOT an issue, then Herron gets the spot based on more versatility.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

There are absolutely no data to support this argument. None.

Except an article that states what me and Tubbs have been stating for a week now. Burkhead was projected as a 2nd to 3rd round pick before the injuries. He is not one of those rare athletes that has so much talent that even if he has all these injuries, teams are goign to take him with a 1st round pick. He was projected as a 2nd to 3rd BEFORE the injuries, then he got hurt and his stock slide a bit. His talent level is actually in the 2nd to 3rd round range. Herron's was always a 6th to 7th round talent. Brandon Saine was always a much better RB.

Herron may have more yards right now, but most of his yards is due to a big 40 yard run blown by the defense by overpursuing. Good job bouncing outside. Burkhead continues to gain yards through the line, on the outside, he is more consistant. He is also a better pass blocker in general, at similar points in their careers, and has better hands. I love OSU, but Herron is a ST player only. I prefer to have some depth, as I don't think Peerman is the greatest RB to keep handing him the ball for an entire game, and soon, BJGE is not going to be here. I would rather keep Burkhead and his overall talent, than that one trick pony. Because it is not like Burkhead is going to be a complete scrub on ST with his speed, strength and sheer drive.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Except an article that states what me and Tubbs have been stating for a week now. Burkhead was projected as a 2nd to 3rd round pick before the injuries. He is not one of those rare athletes that has so much talent that even if he has all these injuries, teams are goign to take him with a 1st round pick. He was projected as a 2nd to 3rd BEFORE the injuries, then he got hurt and his stock slide a bit. His talent level is actually in the 2nd to 3rd round range. Herron's was always a 6th to 7th round talent. Brandon Saine was always a much better RB.

Herron may have more yards right now, but most of his yards is due to a big 40 yard run blown by the defense by overpursuing. Good job bouncing outside. Burkhead continues to gain yards through the line, on the outside, he is more consistant. He is also a better pass blocker in general, at similar points in their careers, and has better hands. I love OSU, but Herron is a ST player only. I prefer to have some depth, as I don't think Peerman is the greatest RB to keep handing him the ball for an entire game, and soon, BJGE is not going to be here. I would rather keep Burkhead and his overall talent, than that one trick pony. Because it is not like Burkhead is going to be a complete scrub on ST with his speed, strength and sheer drive.

First of all, I hate to tell you this but no one will care where he was PROJECTED to go. The Bengals did not invest a 2nd round pick in him. Lots of guys are PROJECTED to go high, and fall right out of the draft. It happens for various reasons. This doesn't mean he's better or worse than Herron as these projections are wrong all the time. If they weren't 5th-7th round picks would never become anyone special (Brady) or undrafted F/A's for that matter, ever matter (Harrison). This is a poor argument for you to make.

You say 40 yards of Herron's run came on 1 busted play (Hard knocks shows right played called for defense, as mentioned by Jay Gruden). Yet, 30 yards of Burkheads have come on 2 carries as his two long runs are 15/15. Another poor argument.

If Burkhead were so talented, he would have still be drafted high despite injury. There is a decent list of players injured and still going high. McGahee was projected as a 1st round pick, blew his knee out, and STILL went in the 1st round. Lattimore went in the 4th, and had 2 knee injuries scaring teams away. If a team truly believes a player has top talent, they will draft them accordingly.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

First of all, I hate to tell you this but no one will care where he was PROJECTED to go. The Bengals did not invest a 2nd round pick in him. Lots of guys are PROJECTED to go high, and fall right out of the draft. It happens for various reasons. This doesn't mean he's better or worse than Herron as these projections are wrong all the time. If they weren't 5th-7th round picks would never become anyone special (Brady) or undrafted F/A's for that matter, ever matter (Harrison). This is a poor argument for you to make.

You say 40 yards of Herron's run came on 1 busted play (Hard knocks shows right played called for defense, as mentioned by Jay Gruden). Yet, 30 yards of Burkheads have come on 2 carries as his two long runs are 15/15. Another poor argument.

If Burkhead were so talented, he would have still be drafted high despite injury. There is a decent list of players injured and still going high. McGahee was projected as a 1st round pick, blew his knee out, and STILL went in the 1st round. Lattimore went in the 4th, and had 2 knee injuries scaring teams away. If a team truly believes a player has top talent, they will draft them accordingly.

I know the Bengals do not give a rats ass where they got him, as long as they got him. The difference is, as a projected possible 2nd round pick, the talent is visable even before he entered the draft process. That alone means that he more than likely had the talent to be better than probably 90% of the RB's in this years draft. You put that same talent on teh field and he keeps producing, he is smart, he is hungry and you just have to sometimes say hey...let's take a chance on his future versus what we get right this second.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I know the Bengals do not give a rats ass where they got him, as long as they got him. The difference is, as a projected possible 2nd round pick, the talent is visable even before he entered the draft process. That alone means that he more than likely had the talent to be better than probably 90% of the RB's in this years draft. You put that same talent on teh field and he keeps producing, he is smart, he is hungry and you just have to sometimes say hey...let's take a chance on his future versus what we get right this second.

And this is really the crux of my position. This team is NOT building for the future. They have a 2, maybe 3 year window with cap space and ability to resign some core players before the window starts to close. I'm not interested in guys developing from the 4th RB spot when I have a guy who has proven his ability on the NFL field and is more immediately ready to produce.

If this were 2011 following the disaster that was 2010, then I would agree with you. However, with RB's being a dime a dozen, I would believe, IMO, that this team would have very little interest in developing a 4th string RB.

And again, projections mean NOTHING to visable talent. If that were the case, again, guys drafted late, or not at all, would never exceed those drafted in front of them. However, we know that is not the case. Talent evaluators are wrong all the time, every year. You can't simply say this guy was projected as a 2nd round pick and this guy was a 6 round projection, so therefor we should just cut the latter guy. Projections mean absolutely nothing once you are with a team. All that matters is production. While Burkhead COULD put up better stats, the fact is I KNOW what this team can get out of Herron on ST, and he has shown enough that he's compitent in carrying the ball in live NFL games. When building for the future, I would take a risk on the unknown if I thought there was more potential, but when I am interested in winning now, I'm sticking with guys where the quantity is known and I can count on that immediately as opposed to developing someone.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

And this is really the crux of my position. This team is NOT building for the future. They have a 2, maybe 3 year window with cap space and ability to resign some core players before the window starts to close. I'm not interested in guys developing from the 4th RB spot when I have a guy who has proven his ability on the NFL field and is more immediately ready to produce.

If this were 2011 following the disaster that was 2010, then I would agree with you. However, with RB's being a dime a dozen, I would believe, IMO, that this team would have very little interest in developing a 4th string RB.

And again, projections mean NOTHING to visable talent. If that were the case, again, guys drafted late, or not at all, would never exceed those drafted in front of them. However, we know that is not the case. Talent evaluators are wrong all the time, every year. You can't simply say this guy was projected as a 2nd round pick and this guy was a 6 round projection, so therefor we should just cut the latter guy. Projections mean absolutely nothing once you are with a team. All that matters is production. While Burkhead COULD put up better stats, the fact is I KNOW what this team can get out of Herron on ST, and he has shown enough that he's compitent in carrying the ball in live NFL games. When building for the future, I would take a risk on the unknown if I thought there was more potential, but when I am interested in winning now, I'm sticking with guys where the quantity is known and I can count on that immediately as opposed to developing someone.

Once again, you act like the 4th RB is going to make or break this team, and there is no such thing as a 2 or 3 year window if you keep the roster deep, retain talent, and resupply through efficient and quality drafts.

You are bitching about a 4th string RB!!!!

I am not trying to replace a starter, or a visual key to this team being able to win games. Burkhead has speed, he can make tackles, he may not be able to block a punt as good as Herron, but in reality, how many punts a year is Herron going to be able to make if he plays all 16 games? 1, maybe 2 if he is lucky? How much does that sway a game? Who knows, depends on how the game is going I guess.

Burkhead is a better RB, so in the FUTURE, he could sway a whole bunch of games our way as a backup RB, or possibly even a starting RB. Herron's future will never project to be a starter, he would be damn lucky if it ever progressed past ST.

Now I am not saying Burkhead is necessarily our future at RB, all I am saying is the potential is there. Keeping im around means not having to spend a pick on a RB for a couple years maybe, so we can resupply holes that is caused by free agents leaving, like Michael Johnson, Harrison, Newman, Nelson, etc. We are so young, and so deep right now, that as long as we keep drafting decent and finding those decent college free agents, we will have longer than a 2 or 3 year window. It isn't like Dalton, Green, Bernard, Eifert, Atkins, Dunlap, Burfict are nearing retirement.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'm actually not bitching.

You keep hammering the point that you want to develop a guy.

My point is...this team is beyond that. I would prefer a guy that can immediately impact an area of this team if they are active. That would be Herron because of his ability to play special teams. Something that most rookies really struggle with (and is actually covered in today's crap-quirer if you care to read Reedy's article).


That's it. You would prefer to have a guy that can be developed. I would prefer a guy that has more immediate impact "IF" he is active.

If you need a RB down the road...draft one. It's not a waste of a pick, and you can always find guys in later rounds that will be just as good as those "projected" to be 1-2-3rd rounders. It happens every year. You keep harping on where people are PROJECTED to go, even though you know that means absoutely NOTHING in terms of how they will actually perfrom. It is well within the realm of possibility that given an equal chance on the NFL playing field, Herron could well out perform Burkhead. It's not where people PROJECT you, but what you do with OPPORTUNITY when it arrives.

Get your nose out of the analyst asses and look at the real playing field. Projections don't mean a damn thing at this point. It's about opportunity and production.