Redskins Opener But Without Carriker and Orakpo

[DanBengalfan]

I wonder if Hawkins will get more than 3 or 4 targets at him. dude made quite a play Sunday.

 

[Tubbs1518]

The "Bengals have drafted well" myth is probably the biggest misconception out there. Since 2008 the only good players we have drafted are Andre Smith, Geno Atkins, Andy Dalton, AJ Green and Clint Boiling. It's too early to tell with the 2012 draft, but Zeitler looks good so far.

I would argue that. We haven't hit a ton of superstars but we have drafted a lot of good rotation players who get a lot of playing time and those are very important. Lets look at the last 4 drafts not counting 2012.

2008:

1 - Keith Rivers - Not very good, but pretty much the entire 1st round missed in that draft.
2 - Jerome Simpson - Not a great player. Would have been a good #2 WR I think if we had kept him. Hurts more because we picked him before DeSean Jackson. I think part of his problem was Marvin.
3 - Pat Sims - a good run stopping DT. We have really missed him since he got hurt last year. Before he got hurt our run D was our strength, now we can't stop anyone. He is a big part of that.
4 - Anthony Collins - A very good backup who I think got a raw deal. He should have gotten a chance to start and Marv never gave it to him. I think he could start in a few other places but very good depth pickup in the 4th.
5,6,7 - Jason Shirley, Corey Lynch, Angelo Craig, Mario Urrutia

So the first 4 picks all played some significant time for us and will continue to play significant time for us or other teams.

2009:

1 - Andre Smith - Starting to look like the top 10 pick he was. Probably the best OT out of that draft. Looking like a premier RT.
2 - Rey Maualuga - Was considered a steal at that time by many. Has proven either he can't play very well or this team just can't develop a good LB'er.
3 - Michael Johnson - Good, not great DE. Is getting better in his pass rush and run defense. It would help if he had someone on the other side other than Robert Geathers.
3 - Chase Coffman - Sucked. That is all.
4 - Jonathan Luigs - See above.
5 - Kevin Huber - Becoming a better punter. Not a top 5 guy but is still becoming pretty good.
6 - Morgan Trent - Wasn't spectacular. Could be a 4th or 5th DB and a special teamer on many teams. Can't ask for a lot more from the 6th round.
6 - Bernard Scott - Can't stay healthy. Has shown flashes of being good but isn't consistent enough. I'd say this year when he gets healthy is his last chance.
7 - Fui Vakapuna, Clint McDonald, Freddie Brown - I know McDonald had a pretty big cult following on this board until we traded him.

2010:

1 - Jermain Gresham - Has shown flashes of Gates type talent. Was a pro bowler last year. Hopefully can turn it on this year.
2 - Carlos Dunlap - If he can ever stay healthy he can be a premier pass rusher. Can't seem to stay healthy however.
3 - Jordan Shipley - Looked to be a great slot WR until an injury set his career back. When he get's healthy lets look back at him.
3 - Brandon Ghee - Was supposedly looking very good this year until an injury ended his season. Hasn't shown a lot, but is still young unlike the majority of our DB's.
4 - Geno Atkins - One of the best DT's in football.
4 - Roddrick Muckelroy - Has been a quality backup. Hopefully he can get some playing time with Howard out and we can see what he has.
5 - Otis Hudson
6 - Dezmon Briscoe - Flashed some talent with Tampa last year, but is apparently an idiot.
7 - Reggie Stephens

2011:

1 - A.J. Green - Dominant. Enough said.
2 - Andy Dalton - Looking like the franchise QB we hoped he would be.
3 - Dontay Moch - Hasn't played any meaningful football yet, but looked like a dominant pass rusher in pre season. When he gets back from suspension we can see if he brings anything to the team.
4 - Clint Boling - Looking to be a god young OG. Playing LG now, which suits him better he has looked very good in his first 2 starts.
5 - Robert Sands
6 - Ryan Whalen
7 - Korey Lindsey
7 - Jay Finley

So looking at those 4 drafts we have 4 pro bowlers, 10 starters on our team, another 3 who will get significant playing time. And then a few others who are really good depth players. I'd say we drafted really well in the last 4 years.

2007 was really bad. Leon Hall was the only player worth noting in the whole draft. In 2006 though we got J-Jo, Whit, Frostee and Peko in the first 4 rounds. Then we got Roland as well. That is a pretty good draft.

 

[bengaldoug]

Something like 38-27 skins.....................bet the over anyway.....

 

[It's me bcd]

Bengals 24-23

 

[cincygrad]

I would argue that. We haven't hit a ton of superstars but we have drafted a lot of good rotation players who get a lot of playing time and those are very important. Lets look at the last 4 drafts not counting 2012.

2008:

1 - Keith Rivers - Not very good, but pretty much the entire 1st round missed in that draft.
2 - Jerome Simpson - Not a great player. Would have been a good #2 WR I think if we had kept him. Hurts more because we picked him before DeSean Jackson. I think part of his problem was Marvin.
3 - Pat Sims - a good run stopping DT. We have really missed him since he got hurt last year. Before he got hurt our run D was our strength, now we can't stop anyone. He is a big part of that.
4 - Anthony Collins - A very good backup who I think got a raw deal. He should have gotten a chance to start and Marv never gave it to him. I think he could start in a few other places but very good depth pickup in the 4th.
5,6,7 - Jason Shirley, Corey Lynch, Angelo Craig, Mario Urrutia

So the first 4 picks all played some significant time for us and will continue to play significant time for us or other teams.

2009:

1 - Andre Smith - Starting to look like the top 10 pick he was. Probably the best OT out of that draft. Looking like a premier RT.
2 - Rey Maualuga - Was considered a steal at that time by many. Has proven either he can't play very well or this team just can't develop a good LB'er.
3 - Michael Johnson - Good, not great DE. Is getting better in his pass rush and run defense. It would help if he had someone on the other side other than Robert Geathers.
3 - Chase Coffman - Sucked. That is all.
4 - Jonathan Luigs - See above.
5 - Kevin Huber - Becoming a better punter. Not a top 5 guy but is still becoming pretty good.
6 - Morgan Trent - Wasn't spectacular. Could be a 4th or 5th DB and a special teamer on many teams. Can't ask for a lot more from the 6th round.
6 - Bernard Scott - Can't stay healthy. Has shown flashes of being good but isn't consistent enough. I'd say this year when he gets healthy is his last chance.
7 - Fui Vakapuna, Clint McDonald, Freddie Brown - I know McDonald had a pretty big cult following on this board until we traded him.

2010:

1 - Jermain Gresham - Has shown flashes of Gates type talent. Was a pro bowler last year. Hopefully can turn it on this year.
2 - Carlos Dunlap - If he can ever stay healthy he can be a premier pass rusher. Can't seem to stay healthy however.
3 - Jordan Shipley - Looked to be a great slot WR until an injury set his career back. When he get's healthy lets look back at him.
3 - Brandon Ghee - Was supposedly looking very good this year until an injury ended his season. Hasn't shown a lot, but is still young unlike the majority of our DB's.
4 - Geno Atkins - One of the best DT's in football.
4 - Roddrick Muckelroy - Has been a quality backup. Hopefully he can get some playing time with Howard out and we can see what he has.
5 - Otis Hudson
6 - Dezmon Briscoe - Flashed some talent with Tampa last year, but is apparently an idiot.
7 - Reggie Stephens

2011:

1 - A.J. Green - Dominant. Enough said.
2 - Andy Dalton - Looking like the franchise QB we hoped he would be.
3 - Dontay Moch - Hasn't played any meaningful football yet, but looked like a dominant pass rusher in pre season. When he gets back from suspension we can see if he brings anything to the team.
4 - Clint Boling - Looking to be a god young OG. Playing LG now, which suits him better he has looked very good in his first 2 starts.
5 - Robert Sands
6 - Ryan Whalen
7 - Korey Lindsey
7 - Jay Finley

So looking at those 4 drafts we have 4 pro bowlers, 10 starters on our team, another 3 who will get significant playing time. And then a few others who are really good depth players. I'd say we drafted really well in the last 4 years.

2007 was really bad. Leon Hall was the only player worth noting in the whole draft. In 2006 though we got J-Jo, Whit, Frostee and Peko in the first 4 rounds. Then we got Roland as well. That is a pretty good draft.

I count 9 starters on our current team:

Andre Smith - Good pro. I like him.

Rey M. -- Shouldn't be a starter - I think you agree.

Michael Johnson -- Okay player. Average.

Kevin Huber -- Average punter. No better than half the college free agents in the league.

Jermain Gresham - Underwhelming. You call him an all-pro because he played in the game. He didn't deserve it and only made it due to injury. If you think he's one of the top tight ends in the AFC, you are crazy.

Geno Atkins - Great pick. Love him.

AJ Green - The real deal. Our best player.

Andy Dalton - I'm happy with him.

Clint Boiling - I like him.

Dunlap is not a starter - He's a pussy

Shipley was never that great - He's out of the league

Ghee (terrible). Muck (we cut him even know our linebackers suck). Simpson (flashes, though not worth a 2nd).

Yes, we've had 4 guys that have played in the pro bowl, but only a homer would say that Dalton and Gresham really deserved it. They made it due to injury.

You can choose any team in the NFL that has had full drafts (don't count washington and others that have lost picks in trades) and they will all have done just as well or better. Yet, we throw a fucking parade because we drafted Rey M. or Jordan Shipley.

 

[flamingrey]

We have 2 legit pro-bowlers - Green and Atkins.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

2 pro-bowlers in 4 years, not too bad, considering one was a 4th round pick.

There are a ton of players in this league and if you can draft two legit perennial pro-bowlers in that time, that is not bad because a lot of probowlers slide in by name later in their career not based off their production especially on the lines.

I would say we have done a "decent" job of drafting the last 4 years, but we need to eventually find that MLB and S that playoff caliber teams possess. Plus, until Kirkpatrick is healthy and 100% and had a chance to get used to the speed of teh NFL, our DBs just look old old. Leon is still pretty good, but has slowed a little after his injury and while I like Adam Jones, I think he is more of a nickle CB anymore.

I would not be opposed to one more 1st or second round CB this next year.

Hopefully Burfict is the future at MLB, but I have to see more to determine that.

Next year, our 1st and 2 2nd round picks should be no question...(best available at the time with an eye for who might fall to the 2nd round picks), SS, CB. MLB along with a DE soon following who is raw, but has a high motor and is not injury prone, kinda like an Atkins type of guy in the 4th again.

 

[Tubbs1518]

2 pro-bowlers in 4 years, not too bad, considering one was a 4th round pick.

There are a ton of players in this league and if you can draft two legit perennial pro-bowlers in that time, that is not bad because a lot of probowlers slide in by name later in their career not based off their production especially on the lines.

I would say we have done a "decent" job of drafting the last 4 years, but we need to eventually find that MLB and S that playoff caliber teams possess. Plus, until Kirkpatrick is healthy and 100% and had a chance to get used to the speed of teh NFL, our DBs just look old old. Leon is still pretty good, but has slowed a little after his injury and while I like Adam Jones, I think he is more of a nickle CB anymore.

I would not be opposed to one more 1st or second round CB this next year.

Hopefully Burfict is the future at MLB, but I have to see more to determine that.

Next year, our 1st and 2 2nd round picks should be no question...(best available at the time with an eye for who might fall to the 2nd round picks), SS, CB. MLB along with a DE soon following who is raw, but has a high motor and is not injury prone, kinda like an Atkins type of guy in the 4th again.

I disagree with those 2. We need a FS who can cover someone not a SS. We need someone who can run with TE's and RB's. Those are generally FS's. And I think we have to give Burfict a little more time. I don't think a MLB should be picked that early next year. CB, DE, FS and OLB are the biggest needs on D. Along with another WR and a fast, pass catching 3rd down back.

 

[jwil007]

Guess who is in the secondary for the Redskins??? Mado Do Williams...lol

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Josh Wilson is out as well. Fred Davis may be out.

FYI

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I disagree with those 2. We need a FS who can cover someone not a SS. We need someone who can run with TE's and RB's. Those are generally FS's. And I think we have to give Burfict a little more time. I don't think a MLB should be picked that early next year. CB, DE, FS and OLB are the biggest needs on D. Along with another WR and a fast, pass catching 3rd down back.

I completely disagree. The SAM is typically supposed to cover a TE, which is what Howard was really good at. Now we do not have him. FS in this new league needs to be able to cover a WR.

 

[jwil007]

Josh Wilson is out as well. Fred Davis may be out.

FYI

Dude Fred and Garcon will play......Im not buying that....lol Home Openers for a top QB that stadium will be JACKED!!!!!!!!!!! Regardless of the injuries....Bmore beat us with 2 rookie OL getting plenty of minutes..and No Terrell Suggs...You just never know....

We have to NOT allow the crowd to get into it...If you all go right down the field and score we may be in for a long day....My son's defense is better than ours right now....lol

On the other hand if we get the ball 1st we HAVE TO go right down the field and score and take the crowd out of it...

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Well, our DBs are terrible and now we have lost half of our pass rush so I am anticipating a shit ton of Big 12 type scores this year.

I think the Skins will average over 30 points per game......for and against

 

[Tubbs1518]

I completely disagree. The SAM is typically supposed to cover a TE, which is what Howard was really good at. Now we do not have him. FS in this new league needs to be able to cover a WR.

Which is even more reason we need a new FS more than a SS. Have you seen Nelson cover anyone this season? We need a good FS more than a SS.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Well, our DBs are terrible and now we have lost half of our pass rush so I am anticipating a shit ton of Big 12 type scores this year.

I think the Skins will average over 30 points per game......for and against

I'm thinking the same things for the Bengals this year. They can score. We have playmakers on offense. On D however, unless Burfict lights the league on fire and Dunlap comes back and dominates they have no shot.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I'm thinking the same things for the Bengals this year. They can score. We have playmakers on offense. On D however, unless Burfict lights the league on fire and Dunlap comes back and dominates they have no shot.

Which of course means this coming game will end 13-10.

 

[Tubbs1518]

More than likely. The defenses will cause 3 turnovers each and there will be like 400 combined total yards.

 

[flamingrey]

2 pro-bowlers in 4 years, not too bad, considering one was a 4th round pick.

There are a ton of players in this league and if you can draft two legit perennial pro-bowlers in that time, that is not bad because a lot of probowlers slide in by name later in their career not based off their production especially on the lines.

2 pro-bowlers in 4 years is fine (I say fine because I don't know what a good measure is). However, the biggest problem is there's a huge dropoff after those 2 with the exception of a couple other players. All in all, our drafts have been pretty mediocre. A good indication of this is the sheer number of players we've had to grab off the scraps of other teams or players that are on their last legs.

 

[Servo]

Since 2010 I think the drafts have been strong. Last year's draft would've been an A+ even if we would've stopped after Green and Dalton. I think this year's class will turn out to be really solid. Not spectacular...but the type of guys that you need to win at foundational positions. I think both Sanu and Marvin Jones will be very good WR's in time...and Burfict looks like he could be a playmaker at MLB. We'll see. I'm optimistic.

As far as Gresham goes I don't consider him a true pro bowler either. I'll admit that he's been awful this year and inconsistent over his career...but #'s don't lie. He's been a very productive young TE that has the potential to be great.

 

[cincygrad]

The issue with our drafts has been that we haven't successfully built depth with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounders. How many 3rd rounders have we missed on? We were given a lot of credit in drafts because we drafted big names from the college world that just didn't pan out (Rey M., Jordan Shipley, Chase Coffman, Carlos Dunlap). We're getting very little depth out of most of these drafts.