Rams 24, Falcons 31, First loss.

[Vitamike]

If you compare Sammies hold time and decision making to Russell's, Manning's, Kaepernick's or even Carson Palmer's, Sammie has this tendency to slightly hesitate.

Source? I'd like to see the 'hold time' comparisons.

By the way, I NEVER said Sam is blameless and think he can an will improve in this area. To me this comes with trust and when you have had the WR corps that Sam has had can you really blame him for 'hesitating'?

 

[SJ76]

Again, I think Fisher should hire Sammie a QB coach and work on mechanics. His arm strength is good but I think the majority if this is between the ears. We shall see.


LOL agreed. And if Sam makes decisions like that, he needs alot more of a coach.

 

[Retroram52]

Yea Clayton, I alluded to that fact that our running game strikes zero fear in the opponents league-wide. So everyone T's off on any dump pass especially if our field position is near our goal line like the scenarios of both games where that pass play got picked. This is a perfect reason why Shottenheimer should cease calling it until we fix the RB postion and the running game. We are literally setting ourselves up for disaster.

 

[Clayton]

Schottenheimer has a history of abandoning the run, too, and with a QB with less talent than Bradford. Sanchez had a couple of games with around 60 attempts, IIRC.

I know Vick is currently getting rid of the ball insanely fast but Chip Kelly is doing something slightly different. Im not sure the Rams would want to risk the Chip Kelly system and the possibility of getting beat in Time of Possession every game.

 

[SJ76]

Rivers and Vick put on a show. And I agree on Shotty abandoning the run.


Where's Jermaine? LOL Cannot wait to get his take.

 

[Retroram52]

You are right Vita that is why I made the point. I saw a stat the other day that Sammie has been sacked 69 times in his first three seasons. I have often stated that as a cause as well as receivers and O-coordinators changing every year as well.

Having stated that, that still does not negate the reality that he holds the ball too long for all of the reasons we have chronicled here. That is why I am suggesting a QB coach to help him overcome all those years of "training". Could you not hear Martz yelling "throw it" to Sammie like he did with with Trent, Bulger, and Kurt? I am not suggesting hire martz but Sammie needs to have his tendencies neurally re-programmed.

I know it'll never happen, but Gruden would do wonders for Sammie in a lot of areas. But again, this may all work itself out with further seasoning.

 

[Vitamike]

I haven't fully looked at it to see if he is holding on to the ball too long but it does take too long to get the ball to the running back on these dump off passes andif the dump off isn't there, there doesn't seem to be a plan B.
The problem is that no team is going to bite on our play action passes at all. Richardson is decent but not good enough to make good defenses even sweat.

HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY THAT PLAY IS ON THE OC? DID SHOTTY COME IN AND PLAY QB THAT PLAY?

Because #8 (whoever he was) had plenty of time and looked off those WR's IMMEDIATELY! LOL THEN, (stay with me I know I'm moving fast) he dumps it to D Rich who was clocked for what would have been a 3 yard loss.


Go watch it again. If you don't get it by then, I cannot help you.

SO.... first it was a lack of WR's and weapons, then it was the O-line, then it was a NEW OC every year, then it was the WR ran the wrong route...

Now it's the OC's play calling, WHICH I might add has a few options on every play and I am certain didn't want Sam to immediately look off his downfield targets to then dump to D Rich for a loss.

It's classic stuff man, not hard to understand and Clayton nails it there is there is only a plan A.

Sam's not even trying to find an open WR on that play. It is designed to work just like a run off the edge but since we don't have a true running game we can count on, we need such type of plays to draw in the linebackers and safeties in to open up the over the middle stuff and deeper stuff. The difference here is you give the RB the ball with some space and hope he makes a play and gets a few yards. If he does, it is the same as running the ball for a 3 or 4 yard pick up on first down. If he doesn't it works just like a run that gets blown up in the backfield. To throw the ball somewhere else than Shots has it designed to go negates the cat and mouse aspect that Shots is trying to play with Atlanta's defense.

This is not brain surgery, it's pretty simple stuff but if you don't stick to the game plan, you can't set up the defense and get the type of match ups down field you desire on latter downs.

It's pretty simple man, it's all about the trust.

Don't fault the guy for sticking to the plan!

Not at this point!

 

[Retroram52]

Vita. The source you are looking for is me. I recorded a couple of games and tried to find similar plays and I timed the hold time. I used Russell's pass into the endzone yesterday right before the half that took 2.37 seconds and was tipped at the last minute and compared it to a similar play (nearly same distance and circumstances) in yesterday's game of Austin's final TD. Sammie took 3.52 seconds. Now granted, this is not an exact science because there are a boatload of variables here such as QB size, throwing motion, receiver size and speed, and several more. And the results were not the same. Nonetheless, Sammie just has lost his Oklahoma days sharpness and his tentativeness is becoming more evident. We shall see how it all works out.

 

[Clayton]

There is a minor trend of teams moving away from running backs running the football. Kaepernick led the Niners in running last week. Alex Smith led the Chiefs in running last week. Dallas' head coach called out their OC for not running the ball more. Falcons pretty much abandoned the run against the Rams.

I don't know if this is a larger trend to take advantage of mismatches in the passing game or the running back position isn't as strong as people think it is right now across the league. Or maybe its just a blip or OCs getting too cute. All I know is that the current trend for the Rams is very different from the normal Jeff Fisher run-run-pass offense.

 

[Vitamike]

Vita. The source you are looking for is me. I recorded a couple of games and tried to find similar plays and I timed the hold time. I used Russell's pass into the endzone yesterday right before the half that took 2.37 seconds and was tipped at the last minute and compared it to a similar play (nearly same distance and circumstances) in yesterday's game of Austin's final TD. Sammie took 3.52 seconds. Now granted, this is not an exact science because there are a boatload of variables here such as QB size, throwing motion, receiver size and speed, and several more. And the results were not the same. Nonetheless, Sammie just has lost his Oklahoma days sharpness and his tentativeness is becoming more evident. We shall see how it all works out.

Good enough for me, however the way you stated it, I thought you had some independent research stuff you were going off of. However the last part, I strongly disagree. In college, with all them big boys, Sam used to take a coffee break and a nap during the play and still throw the ball with no pressure. This is why some of these dudes from smaller programs make outstanding QB's, they been playing all their lives under pressure and why some of the QB's from the big time programs (Cough, cough U$C, save Carson) don't!

 

[Clayton]

I don't know. Russell Wilson had a better oline than Sam Bradford. QBs are a crapshoot

 

[Retroram52]

Well Vita, since I hold two Master's degrees that are researched based, you could say that my suggestion was independent research-mine. Just not very exact for even my research tastes!

 

[Retroram52]

And you may have a point about Sammie. I was simply under the impression that Sam threw the ball quicker in college than he does now and of course we already discussed why that might be the case.

 

[fastforward]

The Rams traveled to the Falcons, last season's #1 NFC seeds, Sunday and were brushed aside. The Falcons were comprehensively better in the 1st half on both offense and defense. The 24-3 scoreline was not unwarranted. The Rams improved after the break and pulled back 2 TDs on impressive drives but the Falcons were always in control.

In the 1st half: Ryan outplayed Bradford. The Falcons RBs outplayed the Rams RBs. The Falcons WRs outplayed the Rams WRs. The Falcons secondary outplayed the Rams secondary. The Falcons play-calling, game-plan, and execution was better than the Rams.

The Falcons 1st TD was the result of a 10 play drive where the Rams played good defense but didn't create pressure. The Falcons took what the defense gave them. Good play by both teams.

The 2nd TD was a 1-on-1 Jones vs Jenkins battle. The pass was well thrown. Jenkins was beaten and missed the tackle. McLeod didn't even run flat out until he saw Jenkins miss the tackle.

The 3rd TD was a pick 6 of a perfectly thrown dump-off pass to Richardson. The pass was not a fast-ball. Bradford looked defenders off until the last possible moment. The pass was delivered exactly when and where it should have been. Richardson was open and should have gained 4-8 yards. Richardson batted the ball upwards straight to a defender who had a clear path to the endzone. 21-0 game over.

The team were already 7 points behind when Bradford 1st touched the ball. After the 1st 2 drives he never touched the ball with the Rams within 13 points. This was Bradford's weakest outing of the 4 pre-season and 2 regular season games. He was decent, (average or better), but he didn't play great. His decision-making wasn't quick and he held onto the ball too long at times. This was partly due to the Falcons dropping 7 into blanket coverage on his best options rather than rushing him. Receiving drops didn't help, but in the context of the game they were only a footnote. Bradford looked edgy in the pocket once Saffold went down, (mostly without good reason). Barksdale played ok. He didn't give up a sack but he remains highly susceptible to a speed rush. The defense were average overall. They were good at times and weak at others. The defensive line were solid overall and good against the run. They didn't create enough pressure early on to help out our weak LB and S positions. Replace Bradford with Manning or Brady and we still lose the game. Replace Richardson with Peterson and we still lose the game. We lost to a better team who didn't make mistakes.

We are not a 10-6 team that will push for the play-offs...at least at this point. If you can blanket/double Cook & Givens you can shut down the Rams offense. When we throw to someone else it's a change-up, misdirection, or match-up play. We're looking for someone to beat an opponent's 3rd or 4th best choice. Pettis is a solid possession receiver but nothing more. Quick and Kendricks don't look like reliable NFL performers. Austin isn't NFL ready, (yet), and Bailey is behind the other 4 WRs and 2 TEs. We have the weakest RB group in the NFL. Richardson has nice speed and inside rushing ability but he isn't a good receiving back and his blocking is weak. The other RBs aren't good enough. It's a smoke and mirrors offense. We can beat opponents with defensive weaknesses but we don't have dominant players. Consequently we are not an offensive powerhouse.

We are the sum of our personnel decisions. The current management team have had 2 off-seasons to make changes. They've had 4 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, 2 3rd round picks, and a boat-load of free-agent cash at their disposal. The policy has been to throw resources at the receiving positions, CBs, and young talent. If you support that policy it's a bit pointless bitching at the games we lose before those young players mature.

 

[Clayton]

The only part Ill disagree with is the part where Tavon Austin isn't ready. He might not be up to his full potential but he is absolutely ready to be a great receiving option. I think he has 3 or 4 clutch catches on 3rd down or TDs this year so far. I think it took Brandon Gibson like 2 1/2 years to come up with that many clutch catches.

 

[Vitamike]

The Rams traveled to the Falcons, last season's #1 NFC seeds, Sunday and were brushed aside. The Falcons were comprehensively better in the 1st half on both offense and defense. The 24-3 scoreline was not unwarranted. The Rams improved after the break and pulled back 2 TDs on impressive drives but the Falcons were always in control.

In the 1st half: Ryan outplayed Bradford. The Falcons RBs outplayed the Rams RBs. The Falcons WRs outplayed the Rams WRs. The Falcons secondary outplayed the Rams secondary. The Falcons play-calling, game-plan, and execution was better than the Rams.

The Falcons 1st TD was the result of a 10 play drive where the Rams played good defense but didn't create pressure. The Falcons took what the defense gave them. Good play by both teams.

The 2nd TD was a 1-on-1 Jones vs Jenkins battle. The pass was well thrown. Jenkins was beaten and missed the tackle. McLeod didn't even run flat out until he saw Jenkins miss the tackle.

The 3rd TD was a pick 6 of a perfectly thrown dump-off pass to Richardson. The pass was not a fast-ball. Bradford looked defenders off until the last possible moment. The pass was delivered exactly when and where it should have been. Richardson was open and should have gained 4-8 yards. Richardson batted the ball upwards straight to a defender who had a clear path to the endzone. 21-0 game over.

The team were already 7 points behind when Bradford 1st touched the ball. After the 1st 2 drives he never touched the ball with the Rams within 13 points. This was Bradford's weakest outing of the 4 pre-season and 2 regular season games. He was decent, (average or better), but he didn't play great. His decision-making wasn't quick and he held onto the ball too long at times. This was partly due to the Falcons dropping 7 into blanket coverage on his best options rather than rushing him. Receiving drops didn't help, but in the context of the game they were only a footnote. Bradford looked edgy in the pocket once Saffold went down, (mostly without good reason). Barksdale played ok. He didn't give up a sack but he remains highly susceptible to a speed rush. The defense were average overall. They were good at times and weak at others. The defensive line were solid overall and good against the run. They didn't create enough pressure early on to help out our weak LB and S positions. Replace Bradford with Manning or Brady and we still lose the game. Replace Richardson with Peterson and we still lose the game. We lost to a better team who didn't make mistakes.

We are not a 10-6 team that will push for the play-offs...at least at this point. If you can blanket/double Cook & Givens you can shut down the Rams offense. When we throw to someone else it's a change-up, misdirection, or match-up play. We're looking for someone to beat an opponent's 3rd or 4th best choice. Pettis is a solid possession receiver but nothing more. Quick and Kendricks don't look like reliable NFL performers. Austin isn't NFL ready, (yet), and Bailey is behind the other 4 WRs and 2 TEs. We have the weakest RB group in the NFL. Richardson has nice speed and inside rushing ability but he isn't a good receiving back and his blocking is weak. The other RBs aren't good enough. It's a smoke and mirrors offense. We can beat opponents with defensive weaknesses but we don't have dominant players. Consequently we are not an offensive powerhouse.

We are the sum of our personnel decisions. The current management team have had 2 off-seasons to make changes. They've had 4 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, 2 3rd round picks, and a boat-load of free-agent cash at their disposal. The policy has been to throw resources at the receiving positions, CBs, and young talent. If you support that policy it's a bit pointless bitching at the games we lose before those young players mature.

This is a great summary, however I'm not sure why you left off the lack of good field position we encountered the entire first half due to self inflected penalties or for that much the huge factor of penalties alone!

IMO it was the difference in the game!

Either way FF well done!

 

[Jermaine133]

Rivers and Vick put on a show. And I agree on Shotty abandoning the run.


Where's Jermaine? LOL Cannot wait to get his take.

Maan don't get me started...So we have 2 1st rounders right? Looks like the deadskins will give us a marvelous pick if they cannot turn around their season. So how about we trade the 2 1st rounders and Bradford to Seattle for Russell Wilson(yes I'm kind of a NCSU homer). Okay seriously that pick 6 was on Bradford; that pass had some zip to be within 7 yards of D Rich not to mention he had 3 fugging defenders wrapped around him. Hell i mean WR's have to catch the ball yes but when defenders are swarming its quite difficult to do. There were couple of drops yes but Bradford is in his 4th year and the ability to lead a WR should be there, for some reason I'm not seeing it. Going to give him some more time this season but this has got to improve. What I am surprised to see is that Bradford checks down too much and on top of that he doesn't audible! Maybe I'm blind but I've yet to see it happen.

Some of you may Crucify for this but I think we could have did without Tavon, and just picked up a RB with the pick say Giovonne Bernard with the #7 pick. This ram offense is still anemic and he hasn't been getting the separation that we expected. There are some veteran RB's out there with a lil tread on the tires that could use a phone call, maybe a safety too. Ram's need to find a way to get Craig Dahl JR. off the field.

 

[fastforward]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/09/16/refo-sl-atl-week-2/

 

[SJ76]

GameDay: St. Louis Rams vs. Atlanta Falcons highlights - NFL Videos

The 3rd TD was a pick 6 of a perfectly thrown dump-off pass to Richardson. The
pass was not a fast-ball. Bradford looked defenders off until the last possible
moment. The pass was delivered exactly when and where it should have been.
Richardson was open and should have gained 4-8 yards. YOU ARE HIGH OR DELUSIONAL FASTF! Richardson batted the
ball upwards straight to a defender who had a clear path to the endzone. 21-0
game over.

What play are you all watching? LMAO

He clearly looks off his WR's IMMEDIATELY and dumps it to D Rich who should gain 4-8 yards? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? As soon as D Rich has the ball bounce off his hands, he's ON THE GROUND people. Wake the FUCK up. Sammie rushed the play, never even let it develop, and dumped it to a guy that was going nowhere. Stupidest play I have seen from him in sometime.

And no VITA, it was directly a play for D Rich... There are a few options to throw to on every play. We don't have just 1 option to throw to.

But you all keep making excuses for the man like he's some kind of golden child. Way to go Sam! Way to finally score a TD at the end of the 3rd quarter versus prevent/half asleep defense.

Pathetic.

Go back and WATCH THE PLAY.

 

[Vitamike]

Maan don't get me started...So we have 2 1st rounders right? Looks like the deadskins will give us a marvelous pick if they cannot turn around their season. So how about we trade the 2 1st rounders and Bradford to Seattle for Russell Wilson(yes I'm kind of a NCSU homer). Okay seriously that pick 6 was on Bradford; that pass had some zip to be within 7 yards of D Rich not to mention he had 3 fugging defenders wrapped around him. Hell i mean WR's have to catch the ball yes but when defenders are swarming its quite difficult to do. There were couple of drops yes but Bradford is in his 4th year and the ability to lead a WR should be there, for some reason I'm not seeing it. Going to give him some more time this season but this has got to improve. What I am surprised to see is that Bradford checks down too much and on top of that he doesn't audible! Maybe I'm blind but I've yet to see it happen.

Some of you may Crucify for this but I think we could have did without Tavon, and just picked up a RB with the pick say Giovonne Bernard with the #7 pick. This ram offense is still anemic and he hasn't been getting the separation that we expected. There are some veteran RB's out there with a lil tread on the tires that could use a phone call, maybe a safety too. Ram's need to find a way to get Craig Dahl JR. off the field.

You guys just wanna make shit up!

Now its three freakin defenders WRAPPED AROUND HIM... DR catches that ball clean, he's got the ball in space and maybe picks up a few yards, just like I said earlier. If the defender makes a play he gets caught for a short loss.