Police want to speak with La'el Collins

[gandydancer]

Would Wilson have those rings if he played for the Lions?


NOPE....

Missing my point. Why extend and restructure when he had proven nothing. At least winning wise? Poor decision IMO to do it early. Hope you realize, because I have, that in the last six years no QB was delivering a title in Detroit. Last year may have been the closest they come with a top three QB.

 

[lionstop1]

Missing my point. Why extend and restructure when he had proven nothing. At least winning wise? Poor decision IMO to do it early. Hope you realize, because I have, that in the last six years no QB was delivering a title in Detroit. Last year may have been the closest they come with a top three QB.

Its called making a long-term decision early. Obviously, they believe Stafford is their guy and they want to keep him. I see nothing wrong with a decision like that because it shows that they are confident in what they are doing and they have faith in their players. Sometimes, incentives may enhance performance so it has its benefits. Does a team really want to wait until a guy outperforms his contract all the time?

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

Missing my point. Why extend and restructure when he had proven nothing. At least winning wise? Poor decision IMO to do it early. Hope you realize, because I have, that in the last six years no QB was delivering a title in Detroit. Last year may have been the closest they come with a top three QB.

Matthew Stafford Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns | Spotrac

I was looking at the contract. First of all his rookie contract was backloaded heavily(thats a result of the old CBA). He had a 20 mill cap number in 2013, 19 in 2014 and 17 in 2015. The restructure dropped those numbers down to 17 mill in 2013, 15 in 2014(thats 4 million last year it saved us and helped pay for one of our free agents that helped us go 11-5, like Digs or Reggie, or Tate). This year 2015 its exactly the same.

Now in 2016 and 2017 we have 2 big hits at 22.5 million.

Now in terms of the 2 backloaded years....say he totally shits the bed this year. Yep we are stuck with him next year. But in 2017, his dead money hit is only 5 million. So we could actually cut him loose and eat 5 mill.

So to summarize, he saved us a quite a bit on the cap for 2 years. Even on the 3rd year. Bent over a barrel on the 4th. Team option on the 5th. Seems like it was a pretty darn good deal for a QB coming off of 5000 yards and 41 TD's.

Say he doesnt shit on his own pillow. And he has a good year, builds off of last years low INT's...and leads us to the playoffs for the 2nd straight year, maybe even a WIN or gulp, a deep run(im not going to say SB)! Would you really want him to be an unrestricted free agent? We could lose him. Do you really think Stafford sucks so bad that you would want to start over with a rookie or a free agent? Instead of that, we can extend him and restructure and lower those cap numbers. The ball is actually very much in our court, I think.

 

[gandydancer]

Matthew Stafford Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns | Spotrac

I was looking at the contract. First of all his rookie contract was backloaded heavily(thats a result of the old CBA). He had a 20 mill cap number in 2013, 19 in 2014 and 17 in 2015. The restructure dropped those numbers down to 17 mill in 2013, 15 in 2014(thats 4 million last year it saved us and helped pay for one of our free agents that helped us go 11-5, like Digs or Reggie, or Tate). This year 2015 its exactly the same.

Now in 2016 and 2017 we have 2 big hits at 22.5 million.

Now in terms of the 2 backloaded years....say he totally shits the bed this year. Yep we are stuck with him next year. But in 2017, his dead money hit is only 5 million. So we could actually cut him loose and eat 5 mill.

So to summarize, he saved us a quite a bit on the cap for 2 years. Even on the 3rd year. Bent over a barrel on the 4th. Team option on the 5th. Seems like it was a pretty darn good deal for a QB coming off of 5000 yards and 41 TD's.

Say he doesnt shit on his own pillow. And he has a good year, builds off of last years low INT's...and leads us to the playoffs for the 2nd straight year, maybe even a WIN or gulp, a deep run(im not going to say SB)! Would you really want him to be an unrestricted free agent? We could lose him. Do you really think Stafford sucks so bad that you would want to start over with a rookie or a free agent? Instead of that, we can extend him and restructure and lower those cap numbers. The ball is actually very much in our court, I think.

You are like other guys here who read one post and assume the rest. Happens a lot, it's okay.
Just said yesterday I do not want replace him. Just want him to improve. You read a post about a certain subject (giving a contract early) and read that I want to start over some how.

I find it odd you agree with the handling of his contract and kicking the can. Yet scoff at how Suh's contract will cripple and force Miami to kick the can. Just think it may bring a couple of players in to help them go 11-5 and a one game playoff appearance you will then throw in a few posters faces for happening. Why you love what kicking the can did for the Lions.

That is me just reading a post and assuming the rest.

Suh could still be in Detroit for one more season at the cost of 4 million more than the cost of Ngata. A season with a lot of potential with no ?marks about the defense. So you continue liking what kicking the can did in the past. I will continue to think of what a 2015 with $12-13 million Suh could have looked like in the future.

 

[gandydancer]

It saved money on the cap in 2013. (CJ & Matt) What's it doing for the cap in 2015? You can say Mayhew has a vision of capitalizing on compensatory picks in 2016 to feel better. IMO he made some small signings because his hand was forced with no cap space once he signed his own players.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

You are like other guys here who read one post and assume the rest. Happens a lot, it's okay.
Just said yesterday I do not want replace him. Just want him to improve. You read a post about a certain subject (giving a contract early) and read that I want to start over some how.

I find it odd you agree with the handling of his contract and kicking the can. Yet scoff at how Suh's contract will cripple and force Miami to kick the can. Just think it may bring a couple of players in to help them go 11-5 and a one game playoff appearance you will then throw in a few posters faces for happening. Why you love what kicking the can did for the Lions.

That is me just reading a post and assuming the rest.

Suh could still be in Detroit for one more season at the cost of 4 million more than the cost of Ngata. A season with a lot of potential with no ?marks about the defense. So you continue liking what kicking the can did in the past. I will continue to think of what a 2015 with $12-13 million Suh could have looked like in the future.

Geesh you need a snickers? A hug? Maybe I did assume that if you didnt want him extended that must want him gone. Sorry for that. So what did you want? To let him be a free agent? Or franchise him(his 2016 salary is exactly 120% of his 2015 salary)? Or get in a bidding war. I don't want to put words in your mouth, so explain please. Or are you just upset because you now realize it made sense to extend Stafford.

As far as Suh, the restructure was an error no doubt. Maybe he was led to believe he would re-sign, maybe thats why SUh fired his agent. Yeah he did make a mistake there, but we werent even talking about Suh were we? Regardless, I think you handle QB and DT a lot differently. I can live with a slight decline at the DT position when those types of dollars are involved, I don't want a new QB. But thats just me you have a right to disagree.

And I get you were just assuming but I never said that about Suhs contract. They are choosing to build off of Tanehill and Suh, they just like us cannot add a 3rd 20 million dollar guy. I don't think you invest that much in a DT. They bet the farm on SUH for a long time.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

It saved money on the cap in 2013. (CJ & Matt) What's it doing for the cap in 2015? You can say Mayhew has a vision of capitalizing on compensatory picks in 2016 to feel better. IMO he made some small signings because his hand was forced with no cap space once he signed his own players.

Staffords number this year is exactly the same as it was prior to the re-structure. Calvin's original contract expired after the 2012 season. So his cap number this year is 20 million. I think CJ is worth the 20. If I had the choice I'd take CJ over Suh. And Stafford over Suh.

When you look at Calvins contract, it seems like the end of that deal is pretty friendly as well. The last 3 years 2017-2019 are basically team options. If Calvin is still Calvin after 2 more season, we pay him 21 million, if we cut him loose its 4.8 mill dead, and 3.5 in 2018. zero in 2019. Basically a team option the last 3 years. Its decent.

To tell you the truth I really don't pay that much attention to contracts and such, this is the first time ive dug into the numbers. They seem to make sense to me. Not Suh's though. I get that that was a mistake.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

 

[gandydancer]

Geesh you need a snickers? A hug? Maybe I did assume that if you didnt want him extended that must want him gone. Sorry for that. So what did you want? To let him be a free agent? Or franchise him(his 2016 salary is exactly 120% of his 2015 salary)? Or get in a bidding war. I don't want to put words in your mouth, so explain please. Or are you just upset because you now realize it made sense to extend Stafford.

As far as Suh, the restructure was an error no doubt. Maybe he was led to believe he would re-sign, maybe thats why SUh fired his agent. Yeah he did make a mistake there, but we werent even talking about Suh were we? Regardless, I think you handle QB and DT a lot differently. I can live with a slight decline at the DT position when those types of dollars are involved, I don't want a new QB. But thats just me you have a right to disagree.

And I get you were just assuming but I never said that about Suhs contract. They are choosing to build off of Tanehill and Suh, they just like us cannot add a 3rd 20 million dollar guy. I don't think you invest that much in a DT. They bet the farm on SUH for a long time.

I am not upset or did not realize it made sense. Now would be the time to extend him. Not then. I'm guessing you're not getting the point of extending a guy and kicking the can raises that 120% and future cap hits made higher. So why you think it was awesome we got Bush and such for a playoff run. I see the 3 contracts and other ones that that kept the avalanche building. The end result was somebody had to go. It was Suh, so do I think every time you extend or restructure is bad. No. IMO those were to me(emphasis me). So we are going to disagree on the timing of the Stafford contract is all.

Have you actually thought about what kicking the can does. Why it opens space today it removes it later. I did not want Suh at 19 a year. I sure would've like the defense better if he was a Lion on a original tag cost one more season. Actually be more cap room with him on a original tag than with Ngata had Suh's contract never been restructured.

Ask yourself this question. How would feel about this situation if Matt was the odd man out? Just so you know I wanted CJ to be the odd man out. Never Matt.

 

[gandydancer]

How do you view a contract as friendly when you have cap hits absurdly high? What if CJ is declining now? Do those huge cap hits look good for 2015 and 2016?

The premise of seeing this as a good contract is solely on if he performs until those last three years of it. Neither of us can say he will perform the next two seasons.

Worth 20 to you for a guy who was out performed by how many WRs last year for helluva lot less money. I just don't view CJ as the best WR in the game any longer. That guy wears a star logo. He is not worth 20 million either IMO. He is a POS as a person, but the best at the moment talent wise for me.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

How do you view a contract as friendly when you have cap hits absurdly high? What if CJ is declining now? Do those huge cap hits look good for 2015 and 2016?

The premise of seeing this as a good contract is solely on if he performs until those last three years of it. Neither of us can say he will perform the next two seasons.

Worth 20 to you for a guy who was out performed by how many WRs last year for helluva lot less money. I just don't view CJ as the best WR in the game any longer. That guy wears a star logo. He is not worth 20 million either IMO. He is a POS as a person, but the best at the moment talent wise for me.

You think Dez is better than Calvin, and Calvins is not worth 20 million. Welp....we disagree there.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

I am not upset or did not realize it made sense. Now would be the time to extend him. Not then. I'm guessing you're not getting the point of extending a guy and kicking the can raises that 120% and future cap hits made higher. So why you think it was awesome we got Bush and such for a playoff run. I see the 3 contracts and other ones that that kept the avalanche building. The end result was somebody had to go. It was Suh, so do I think every time you extend or restructure is bad. No. IMO those were to me(emphasis me). So we are going to disagree on the timing of the Stafford contract is all.

Have you actually thought about what kicking the can does. Why it opens space today it removes it later. I did not want Suh at 19 a year. I sure would've like the defense better if he was a Lion on a original tag cost one more season. Actually be more cap room with him on a original tag than with Ngata had Suh's contract never been restructured.

Ask yourself this question. How would feel about this situation if Matt was the odd man out? Just so you know I wanted CJ to be the odd man out. Never Matt.

Wow...you wanted us to get rid of Megatron over Suh. Fuck that dude. Fuck that. And no I wouldnt want Matt to go either. Suh was the guy. Thats what happened and Im ok with that.

And if we waited to extend Matt, what would that have done to the cap the previous years? As to Bush, he was pretty darn good for a while. Rushed for 1000 yards. Definitely helped us as a team, so did Digs, so did Tate. I like how you cherry picked Bush from that bunch. I think the extention of Matt at that time and still now was a good move. Thats what the numbers say. Im kind of stupid but decent at math.

As far as Stafford kicking the can and raising the 120%, thats only if you franchise him. Teams dont really use the franchise tag often do they. Especially on a QB. If a QB is worth it dont you try to lock him up long term? Seems that what most teams do. Thats what Mayhew did, extended him for the going rate.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Cc3NzAmR-x0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I changed my mind. He looks washed up. We should get rid of him.

 

[gandydancer]

Remember Tate playing awesome as the top WR when CJ was hurt? He had really good games in his absence. Now am I saying Tate would produce like that every game... Not sure, but if Matt is what some say he will become. It will be once CJ is on the decline anyway. So if Tate performed that good with Matt how can you justify that CJ is cog that keep the wheels spinning. At $20 million a year.

 

[gandydancer]

I also think Matt played better without his security blanket. Forced to read and progress more.

 

[RobBase]

Top 2 threads on the this board right now involve the Dolphins, and a player on the Cowboys.

Some off season there, Lions.

 

[gandydancer]

By now Rob it is second nature here. Actually the Collins thread is now cap and contracts of Allen Park. The <>is now a SOS thread. Somehow Manning vs. The Pimp is going in the ditch now also.
Every thread becomes a thread for the den. Just don't merge it all.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

We really need to learn to stay on task. We are like a bunch of potheads.

 

[RobBase]

We really need to learn to stay on task. We are like a bunch of potheads.

 

[jayfan]

Looks like Collins almost chose Detroit.

La'el Collins gave 'great' thought to signing with Detroit Lions