Picking the teams for the playoffs

[ElTexan]

Yes, the BIG 12 deserves to play an extra game in these playoffs why? Because it hasn't been the best top to bottom conference of the BCS era? Because it doesn't play 9 in-conf games just like the other "power 5"?

 

[dnemchik]

The Power 5 Conference Title Game Champs get a bye for the Wildcard Round (Pac,SE,AC,Big10)
The Big 12 champ and 7 others play the Wildcard Round

4 Wildcard winners
vs
4 Power Five Conference Title Game Champs

would be the quarterfinals

So how come the Big 12 champ gets screwed in this scenario? That hardly seems fair.

They dont get screwed. Theyre in for the Wildcard Round. They only lose out on a wildcard bye because they dont play a title game

I think he is getting at that since the BIG XII doesn't have a conference championship game, they shouldn't be allowed a bye week.

He's wrong though. The BIG XII will play 9 conference games, the same amount as the winner of a CCG in the other conferences. So the BIG XII champion deserves a bye week all the same.

Throwing in a 9th conference game is not even close to having a conf title game. The best of one div vs the best of the other div. You cant replace the quality of that scenerio.

If the Big 12 wants a bye for the Wildcard then they need to stop saying how unimportant a conf title game is and do what needs to be done to get one in place. I believe that Ive heard that there are 125 d1a teams. I know there are 65 teams in power5 conferences (Pac=12, Big10=14, SE=14, Big12=10, AC=15), so that leaves about 60 teams for the Big 12 to pick 2 teams from

 

[dnemchik]

Yes, the BIG 12 deserves to play an extra game in these playoffs why? Because it hasn't been the best top to bottom conference of the BCS era? Because it doesn't play 9 in-conf games just like the other "power 5"?

Dont get so caught up in your feelings about the Big 12 that you miss the big picture. d1aa already has a 24 team playoff. They take the top 24 teams and let them decide the champ on the field. d1a goes from 2 team to 4 team and........... my point is that it plain and simply isnt enough

12 teams total with the power 5 conference title game winners getting a wildcard bye
8 teams in the wildcard
8 teams in the quarters
4 teams in the semis
2 teams in the finals

Thats the central point

If the Big 12 wants a power 5 conference title game winner wildcard bye, they can do that. They are a power 5 conference. Its up to them to add the title game. No one is stopping them. If they want the bye then add the title game

 

[dnemchik]

Just to make sure that Im being clear about the arithmetic of this idea, let me add...... that if the Big 12 adds a title game then the playoffs Im proposing would be slightly altered. It would be:

11 teams total with the power 5 conference title game winners getting a wildcard bye
6 teams in the wildcard
8 teams in the quarters (5 conf winners + 3 wildcard winners)
4 teams in the semis
2 teams in the finals

 

[H2S]

good job OP...I'd vote your plan.
I hate the "December bye month down-time, dead-time, recruiting-time, extra practice-time bullshit. The 12-team Championship Series, running concurrently with the other 20-25 end-of-season "bowl" games, would be great for all concerned. And when it's all over, there'd be NO room for squabble about who the Best Team in the Country is.

 

[ElTexan]

So, winning the ACC including the Champ Game is, in your estimation, a harder thing to do and therefore more worthy of a BYE in your system than winning the Big12 Round Robin ???

 

[dnemchik]

Yes, the BIG 12 deserves to play an extra game in these playoffs why? Because it hasn't been the best top to bottom conference of the BCS era? Because it doesn't play 9 in-conf games just like the other "power 5"?

The problem with the direction youre headed is that youre too focused on one tree rather than the whole forest. Saying "best top to bottom conference" is a hindsight thing. Its also a changable variable. Will the Big 12 be considered the best conference 5 years from now ? No one can answer that question. And so why would playoff concepts be decided according to such a variable ? The decision of playoffs is an issue thats decided years and years ahead of time.

Its already decided that the 4 team playoffs is locked in until 2019. The Rose + Sugar have semis in 2014 + 2017. The Orange + Cotton have semis in 2015 + 2018. The Fiesta + Peach have semis in 2016 + 2019. The look of the playoffs for 2020 is what is being contemplated rite now. Whos going to have the strongest conference in 2020 ? No one knows and the decision CANT be based todays Big 12 strength projections

So, winning the ACC including the Champ Game is, in your estimation, a harder thing to do and therefore more worthy of a BYE in your system than winning the Big12 Round Robin ???

Im not saying that. Im saying that how hard it is to win the Big 12 in 2013 and how hard it is to win the AC in 2013 doesnt matter. We're talking about the possible future of the playoffs in 2020. And I dont think it should be planned to let any team to skip a playoff round UNLESS they win a power 5 title game.

Its a concept not a Big12 2013 reality question. The future of the playoffs is a concept that has to have concrete rules not subjective opinion variables.

Youre opinion about the Big 12 mite be rite BUT it doesnt matter because 2013 playoffs dont exist because of decisions made 5 to 10 years ago

Lets just assume that the Big 12 has a title game by 2020

These are my conclusions:
1) a 4 team playoff doesnt go deep enough to determine the championship on the field of play
2) there is currently enough time between the conference title games on Dec 7 and the Jan 1 date picked for the semis to have the games needed for additional playoffs
3) taking 24 teams to the playoffs, like d1aa, would devalue the regular season and also add playoffs rounds for teams that have less that 1% of a chance at championship success
4) each of the power 5 title game winners have accomplished a significant feat within a very strong competitive conference

So whats the # between 4 + 24 that would be the best idea ?

My proposal is a 11 team playoff

11 teams total with the power 5 conference title game winners getting a wildcard bye
5 power 5 conference title games
......1 week gap
6 teams in the wildcard
......1 week gap
8 teams in the quarters (5 conf winners + 3 wildcard winners)
......1 + a half week gap
4 teams in the semis
......1 + a half week gap
2 teams in the finals

 

[ElTexan]

"And I dont think it should be planned to let any team to skip a playoff round UNLESS they win a power 5 title game."

You're not providing holistic evidence as to why winning that game is a necessarily "harder/worthier" thing than winning a round robin.

I did not mention 2013.
Look at the entire BCS era, and tell me that winning the Big12 [take the title game out of it] is not harder than winning almost any other conference WITH title game.

You're the one losing the forest for the "title game" tree, really a limb.

YOU have to provide evidence as to why the Big 12 should have to play an extra game GIVEN the EVIDENCE we have of how hard the Big12 has been since 1998 compared to the other leagues.

Your TITLE GAME dichotomic test is NOT supported by what you are posting.

PROVIDE EVIDENCE.

 

[dnemchik]

You're not providing holistic evidence as to why winning that game is a necessarily "harder/worthier" thing than winning a round robin.

You need holistic evidence that winning a conference title game is a more worthy achievement than winning a round robin game ? I can tell you feel the need to advocate for the Big12 but are you really suggesting that future playoff decisions be made by making conference title games of equal value to round robin games ?

Youre still not understanding that playoffs are scheduled years in advance based on CONCEPTS. Holistic evidence is how you look BACK at PAST events and weigh them according to subjective opinion variables

PROVIDE EVIDENCE.

If the playoff pool is 4 in 2020, provide me with evidence that a Big12 team will win the championship in 2020
If the playoff pool is 8 in 2020, provide me with evidence that a Big12 team will win the championship in 2020
If the playoff pool is 8+ in 2020, provide me with evidence that a Big12 team will win the championship in 2020

Provide me evidence that subjective opinion variables should be the basis of the playoff configuration

The existence of conferences that are stacked with the best teams in d1a has already been accepted for decades. The BCS people calls them AQ (Automatic Qualifier) Conferences. I propose that these conferences get a bye for their title game winner.

The conclusion that a Big12 round robin game is on par with a conference title game is NOT an accepted conclusion. Its your subjective opinion. And Im willing to entertain the thought that you mite be rite but 2020 playoff decisions shouldnt be made according to subjective opinion variables that are not accepted conclusions within all of college football

 

[dnemchik]

So Im thinkin..... and thinkin..... and thinkin
Im thinkin 9 conference games in a conference of 10 teams matches up every team against every other team.

OK fine ! I concede !!!

Set it up so that the Big12 gets the wildcard bye just like every other power 5 conference

The important part is that we get the central problem fixed by 2020
A 4 team playoff doesnt go deep enough to determine the championship on the field of play.
Taking 24 teams to the playoffs, like d1aa, would devalue the regular season and also add playoffs rounds for teams that have less that 1% of a chance at championship success.

So whats the # between 4 + 24 that would be the best idea ?

I really think the 11 team playoff idea is the way to go

11 teams total with the power 5 conference title game winners getting a wildcard bye
5 power 5 conference title games
......1 week gap
6 teams in the wildcard
......1 week gap
8 teams in the quarters (5 conf winners + 3 wildcard winners)
......1 + a half week gap
4 teams in the semis
......1 + a half week gap
2 teams in the finals

I dont even care how they select the 6 wildcard teams, AP ranking, BCS computer, Terry Bradshaw writing names on scraps of paper, Jim Carey blurting out team names that sound good to say, names on the wheel of fortune wheel,

Whatever ! Lets just get the the 11 team outline in place and fill in the details later

 

[podsox]

anymore than 6 teams in the playoffs with 2 teams getting byes will water down the regular season too much imo.

 

[cane_man]

Nobody except the ncaa.


But, good luck ever getting the big12 to agree to that rim job, anyway.

 

[cane_man]

I'll give you one rite off the top of my head
2013, rite here, rite now

Whats the best team on this list
(#1) Florida State (AC champs)
(#2) Auburn (SE champs)
(#3) Alabama (SE)
(#4) Michigan State (B10 champs)
(#5) Stanford (Pac champs)
(#6) Baylor (B12 champs)

We will never know because there is no 6 team or more playoffs this year

Stanford lost twice and bama already lost to a team in the mix in their last game. I dont see the difficulty there.

Also, Im pretty sure the best 2 teams are in the bcs top 4 if you wanna go that road.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Quite obvious that Stanford @ #5 might be the best in all the Land today, but with 2 Ls they would be on the outside looking in at this new playoff system which will still reward teams for playing crappy OCC games and weak 8 IC games.

New system needs a minimum of 8 teams and 12 to be a real playoff in my OP.

 

[7Samurai13]

Nobody except the ncaa.


But, good luck ever getting the big12 to agree to that rim job, anyway.

Exactly. What teams would be worth going after? The ACC is about to drop the hammer on Maryland with the exit fees there. I highly doubt anyone is going to be leaving the Big10 or SEC cash cows with their TV deals. Would Arizona or Arizona St really want to leave the Pac12 for the Big12? So you are looking at mid-majors and Independents. BYU, Boise St, who-ever, it doesn't matter it will just water down the league by adding bottom feeders. When the Big10 had a quality team available, there was not an issue getting them into the title game before we had a CCG. To the conference, CCGs are just cash grabs and a very small perk to it is it allows an extra quality win for the winning team. If anything it can hurt a conference from getting their second best team into a BCS bowl game (see 2011 when Michigan State went to the Crapback Bowl and Michigan went to the Sugar Bowl.)

 

[ElTexan]

If the playoff pool is 4 in 2020, provide me with evidence that a Big12 team will win the championship in 2020l

You can't be this thick.

In one breath you say: ONLY THESE [power 5] conferences get a bye IF they have a championship game.
And why is that? Because HISTORICALLY they are the hardest conferences.

In the very next breath you say, but HISTORICAL evidence doesn't count for the Big 12 [even though they are a HISTORICAL power 5 conf].

HOW DUNCE-LIKE ARE YOU!!??

 

[dnemchik]

In one breath you say: ONLY THESE [power 5] conferences get a bye IF they have a championship game.
And why is that? Because HISTORICALLY they are the hardest conferences.

In the very next breath you say, but HISTORICAL evidence doesn't count for the Big 12 [even though they are a HISTORICAL power 5 conf].

Of course historical background counts !
Let me re-post what Ive already said because you obviously missed it the first time

Post #29 on this thread reads (in part):
The existence of conferences that are stacked with the best teams in d1a has already been accepted for decades. The BCS people calls them AQ (Automatic Qualifier) Conferences. I propose that these conferences get a bye for their title game winner.

The conclusion that a Big12 round robin game is on par with a conference title game is NOT an accepted conclusion. Its your subjective opinion.

You can't be this thick.
......
HOW DUNCE-LIKE ARE YOU!!??

Lowered yourself to name calling ?

Thats too bad because you were making some good points that I acknowledged. I thought you were a person that appreciated debate but I guess youre not mature enough to continue any conversation with content worth debating.

I wont be exchanging insults with you. I would appreciate if you would play school yard name calling with other kids and leave the adults to talk among themselves

 

[UNA Lion]

Need a sixteen-team playoff to keep it fair.

 

[theSabanator20]

I proposed a playoff format earlier this season.

Guidelines:
1. Win your conference.
2. Or finish in the top 11-12.


At large (6)-----Oklahoma
SEC Champ-----Auburn

MAC Champ-----Bowling Green
At large(3)-----Missouri

PAC12 Champ-----Stanford
SunBelt Champ-----UL-Lafeyette

AAC Champ-----Central Florida
At large(2)-----Ohio State
``````````````````````````````````````````````
B1G Champ-----Michigan State
CUSA Champ-----Rice

Big12 Champ-----Baylor
At large(5)-----Oregon

ACC Champ-----Florida State
At large(4)-----South Carolina

At large(1)-----Alabama
MWC Champ-----Fresno State

At larges select the 6 highest ranked non conference champions.