Picking the teams for the playoffs

[dnemchik]

The college football playoffs arent asking me my opinion nor asking you yours but that doesnt prevent us from thinking out loud



Question #1) Should the champion be determined by post season/conference championship ranking or decided on the field of play ?
Answer: Without any doubt, decided on the field of play
Conclusion: The BCS champion is not legitimate
Question #2) Is it an established fact that the best team is ranked within the top 2 ?
Answer: No
Conclusion: The BCS concept can not determine the best team
Question #3) Is it an established fact that the best team is ranked within the top 4 ?
Answer: No
Conclusion: The 4 team playoffs (while certainly a huge improvement over the current BCS) can not determine the best team
Question #4) Is it an established fact that the best team is ranked within the top 8 ?
Answer: Yes but it doesnt recognize or reward the significant achievement of the power 5 title game champions
Conclusion: An 8 team playoff can determine the best team but leaves an issue unresolved
Question #4) Can the playoffs be expanded beyond 8 teams without changing either the season or the championship date ?
Answer: Yes
Conclusion: Thats what Im going to explore below

 

[dnemchik]

The current power 5 title games were held on Satur Dec 7, 2013
The BCS championship game is on Mon Jan 06, 2014 BUT next year the championship game it will be pushed back another week to put the semis on Jan 01, 2015
So what would fit into that opening ?
Dec 07 conference title games + Jan 01 semis

 

[dnemchik]

Satur Dec 07, 2013 Power 5 Conference Championship Round
1 week gap
Satur Dec 14, 2013 Wildcard Round
1 week gap
Satur Dec 21, 2013 Quarterfinal Round
1 + half week gap
Wednes Jan 01, 2014 Semifinal Round
1 + half week gap
Mon Jan 13, 2014 Championship Round

 

[dnemchik]

The Power 5 Conference Title Game Champs get a bye for the Wildcard Round (Pac,SE,AC,Big10)
The Big 12 champ and 7 others play the Wildcard Round

4 Wildcard winners
vs
4 Power Five Conference Title Game Champs

would be the quarterfinals

 

[calsnowskier]

I like the 12-team plan, but it may be too massive to work.

One of the problems I have heard discussed with a tourney with > 4 teams is that the earlier round games begin to have trouble making money. Fans will not want to plan their once-a-year trips for a WC round game, so they will wait for a later-round. If their team loses the WC game, than there is a lot of $$ that is not spent. With a 4-team format, the games are massive enough to attract corporate $$ regardless of who the teams are.

 

[dnemchik]

One of the problems I have heard discussed with a tourney with > 4 teams is that the earlier round games begin to have trouble making money. Fans will not want to plan their once-a-year trips for a WC round game, so they will wait for a later-round.

But Wildcard + Quarters in the NFL are always sold out. I think the key is that you cant pick neutral sites. If a team earned a high AP ranking, they should get a home playoff game. Home games in early rounds works great for the NFL and in college I think they are a fair reward for achieving a good AP ranking + incentive to schedule strong regular season opponents

I like the 12-team plan, but it may be too massive to work.

I know the knee jerk reaction to my suggestion will be, "Increasing the playoffs from 4 teams to 12 teams is HUGE" but if you think it thru that really is NOT the case

Take Florida State or Auburn
If they repeated and rose to the top in the 4 team format next year, they will play
One conference title game
...(get picked for the semis)
One semifinal game
One Championship game
3 games total

If they repeated and rose to the top in the 12 team format, they would play
One conference title game
...(get autoed into the semis and a bye for the wildcard)
One quarterfinal game
One semifinal game
One Championship game
4 games total

Only FOUR total post season games and you end with a legitimate champ decided on the field among all the teams that have a realistic claim to being the best

 

[geneh_33]

This will get hairy for sure.

This year we would have had FSU, Auburn, Michigan State and who else? Baylor or Ohio State?

 

[KansasSooner]

This will get hairy for sure.

This year we would have had FSU, Auburn, Michigan State and who else? Baylor or Ohio State?

Ohio State came in second...

If anything I hope whatever the committee decides, polls ARE NOT USED for the playoff.

 

[geneh_33]

Ohio State came in second...

If anything I hope whatever the committee decides, polls ARE NOT USED for the playoff.

I think they have already said that polls will only be used as a guide and the Committee may vote for whichever four teams they want regardless of conference champions or not, polls or anything else.

 

[geneh_33]

The Power 5 Conference Title Game Champs get a bye for the Wildcard Round (Pac,SE,AC,Big10)
The Big 12 champ and 7 others play the Wildcard Round

4 Wildcard winners
vs
4 Power Five Conference Title Game Champs

would be the quarterfinals

So how come the Big 12 champ gets screwed in this scenario? That hardly seems fair.

 

[Wild Turkey]

This will get hairy for sure.

This year we would have had FSU, Auburn, Michigan State and who else? Baylor or Ohio State?

It would have been Alabama as the 4th team.

 

[calsnowskier]

But Wildcard + Quarters in the NFL are always sold out. I think the key is that you cant pick neutral sites. If a team earned a high AP ranking, they should get a home playoff game. Home games in early rounds works great for the NFL and in college I think they are a fair reward for achieving a good AP ranking + incentive to schedule strong regular season opponents

Well, that's the rub.

I have wanted a 12-game tourney for close to 10 years now, and I always just figured that each game would be its own Bowl Game. Remove the neutral site idea, and that adds a whole new twist. Personally, I like the idea of neutral site, but adding home field advantage is certainly another way to look at it.

 

[geneh_33]

It would have been Alabama as the 4th team.

Yeah, thanks I kind of forgot about them. I knew there was a one loss team somewhere I had forgotten about.

 

[MarkOU]

So how come the Big 12 champ gets screwed in this scenario? That hardly seems fair.

I think he is getting at that since the BIG XII doesn't have a conference championship game, they shouldn't be allowed a bye week.

He's wrong though. The BIG XII will play 9 conference games, the same amount as the winner of a CCG in the other conferences. So the BIG XII champion deserves a bye week all the same.

 

[geneh_33]

I think he is getting at that since the BIG XII doesn't have a conference championship game, they shouldn't be allowed a bye week.

He's wrong though. The BIG XII will play 9 conference games, the same amount as the winner of a CCG in the other conferences. So the BIG XII champion deserves a bye week all the same.

That's a lame argument, anyway. If that is the case then everybody who isn't in a conference championship game must suffer the same fate. Lame, really.

 

[MarkOU]

That's a lame argument, anyway. If that is the case then everybody who isn't in a conference championship game must suffer the same fate. Lame, really.

Until their is a real tournament involving more teams than there are conferences in division 1, winning your conference should be a mandatory perquisite for playing in the national playoff bullshit we have now.

That's the bottom line.

 

[ElTexan]

.

 

[ElTexan]

Question #3) Is it an established fact that the best team is ranked within the top 4 ?
Answer: No
Conclusion: The 4 team playoffs (while certainly a huge improvement over the current BCS) can not determine the best team
Question #4) Is it an established fact that the best team is ranked within the top 8 ?
Answer: Yes but it doesnt recognize or reward the significant achievement of the power 5 title game champions

Give me your *several examples* of when you thought the best team was ranked 5-8 in the final BCS poll. Thanks in advance.

 

[dnemchik]

Until their is a real tournament involving more teams than there are conferences in division 1, winning your conference should be a mandatory perquisite for playing in the national playoff bullshit we have now.

That's the bottom line.

OK
so lets look at the 12 team playoff in light of what your saying.
I was talking about a Wildcard Round that was 8 teams
The Big 12 champ and 7 others play the Wildcard Round

I believe the list of non power 5 d1a conferences is:
American Athletic
USA
Mid American
Mountain West
Sun Belt

So theres 5 conference champs, add the Big12 champ, and 2 more teams off the AP ranking and you have your 8 teams. You need the Big 12 champs and 7 others. The criteria for determining the 7 others can be including all conference champs, AP ranking, or some method combining several criteria. But in the end you need the Big 12 champs and 7 others.

then, the next weekend after the Wildcard Round

4 Wildcard winners
vs
4 Power Five Conference Title Game Champs

That would be the quarterfinals

My central points are that
1) a 12 team playoff leaves the champ determined on the field of play
2) there is currently enough time between the conference title games on Dec 7 and the Jan 1 date picked for the semis to have the games needed for a 12 team playoff
3) the power 5 title game winners get a bye from the wildcard and seed directly into the quarters

 

[dnemchik]

Question #3) Is it an established fact that the best team is ranked within the top 4 ?
Answer: No
Conclusion: The 4 team playoffs (while certainly a huge improvement over the current BCS) can not determine the best team
Question #4) Is it an established fact that the best team is ranked within the top 8 ?
Answer: Yes but it doesnt recognize or reward the significant achievement of the power 5 title game champions

Give me your *several examples* of when you thought the best team was ranked 5-8 in the final BCS poll. Thanks in advance.

I'll give you one rite off the top of my head
2013, rite here, rite now

Whats the best team on this list
(#1) Florida State (AC champs)
(#2) Auburn (SE champs)
(#3) Alabama (SE)
(#4) Michigan State (B10 champs)
(#5) Stanford (Pac champs)
(#6) Baylor (B12 champs)

We will never know because there is no 6 team or more playoffs this year