Personnel

[cincygrad]

I think we can all agree that Andy stinks. Some days he REALL stinks. We're never winning on those days.

But the rest of our roster is suddenly looking much less impressive..... We signed Atkins and Burfict to big deals and haven't gotten anything out of them since the ink has been dry. We signed Dunlap to a big deal and he's been an average defensive end. We used our cap space (apparently) to sign Dalton to a big deal. We drafted two gunners and a tight end that will probably have his arm amputated. Some of these moves were good moves that just didn't work, but damn......

Oh, and I think one of our intelligent posters mentioned that we would probably really miss AC and Michael Johnson this year..... Good thing we have Marshall Newhouse and an amazing run defense!

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I think we can all agree that Andy stinks. Some days he REALL stinks. We're never winning on those days.

But the rest of our roster is suddenly looking much less impressive..... We signed Atkins and Burfict to big deals and haven't gotten anything out of them since the ink has been dry. We signed Dunlap to a big deal and he's been an average defensive end. We used our cap space (apparently) to sign Dalton to a big deal. We drafted two gunners and a tight end that will probably have his arm amputated. Some of these moves were good moves that just didn't work, but damn......

Oh, and I think one of our intelligent posters mentioned that we would probably really miss AC and Michael Johnson this year..... Good thing we have Marshall Newhouse and an amazing run defense!

If they had stayed for big money they would have sucked too. Nature of the beast in Cincinnati sports.

 

[alf8478]

If they had stayed for big money they would have sucked too. Nature of the beast in Cincinnati sports.

They are both stinking it up in Tampa. And Collins is hurt too

 

[kramer1]

Everything stinks in Florida. It's where people go to die.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I think we can all agree that Andy stinks. Some days he REALL stinks. We're never winning on those days.

But the rest of our roster is suddenly looking much less impressive..... We signed Atkins and Burfict to big deals and haven't gotten anything out of them since the ink has been dry. We signed Dunlap to a big deal and he's been an average defensive end. We used our cap space (apparently) to sign Dalton to a big deal. We drafted two gunners and a tight end that will probably have his arm amputated. Some of these moves were good moves that just didn't work, but damn......

Oh, and I think one of our intelligent posters mentioned that we would probably really miss AC and Michael Johnson this year..... Good thing we have Marshall Newhouse and an amazing run defense!

I agree with you. All day. However it is ironic that MJ and Collins have stunk in Tampa. Both were better players when they were here. They're already talkin about moving Collins to G.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Collins rode the bench a long time here before he finally got any use. then his contract year came up and he played solid, now he's hurt.

he's a smart businessman and he'll own a chain of BBQ joints before he's 40

 

[flamingrey]

I couldn't care less what those guys are doing elsewhere. They were GREAT here. That's all that matters. The Bengals should have resigned them. They didn't.

 

[alf8478]

Great is a stretch

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I think it needs to be pointed out that we miss Zimmer. Very very very badly. He was up and away the best coach on this staff. He got the most out of an overrated talent base in defense. We were never dominated like this while he was coordinator. The inherit lack of discipline and blown assignments can be attributed to Zim no longer being here. He was the only coach on this staff with any passion or drive. Now our sideline always looks like somebody slipped roofies in the damn Gatorade.

 

[flamingrey]

Great is a stretch

Johnson had the 4th highest overall +/- for all 4-3 DE in the league last year per PFF. Obviously that doesn't tell the whole story, but it is evidence he had a great season. Robert Quinn blew everyone away (JJ Watt style), then there's a huge dropoff from the 6th best to 7th best. It's indicative that Johnson as a Bengal was in the top tier (with Quinn in his own category).

Collins at LT helped represent our best o-line by FAR. It wasn't even close. His impact in the lineup was huge. And I'll simply add that his overall +/- extrapolated to the entire season (he played 8 our of 17 full games) would put him in the top tier of all tackles.

All that said, whether you consider them great on the Bengals or just very good, the point stands nonetheless. The Bengals should have resigned both. They didn't. Now they're feeling those losses.

 

[flamingrey]

I think it needs to be pointed out that we miss Zimmer. Very very very badly. He was up and away the best coach on this staff. He got the most out of an overrated talent base in defense. We were never dominated like this while he was coordinator. The inherit lack of discipline and blown assignments can be attributed to Zim no longer being here. He was the only coach on this staff with any passion or drive. Now our sideline always looks like somebody slipped roofies in the damn Gatorade.

Agree with this. I read an article during the offseason on NFL.com that talked extensively about the impact of Gruden and Zimmer on the roster. We had 2 of the best coordinators in the league on our team and they were propping up both Andy and Marvin.

So, PFF's overall team defense +/- covers all the net positive and net negative plays made by the defense. So each play, the net positive/negative plays by all 11 guys on the field. Who is making great plays and who isn't. At the end of last season, the Bengals overall defense was at +40.9 (12th in the league). As we stand today, the Bengals overall defense is -74.2 (last in the league).

Again, this isn't a measure of the strength of the defense (the sum of individual parts doesn't always equal the whole), simply the quality of plays being made by individual players, summed up. It points to the fact that Zimmer with his scheme, game-planning, and adjusting was putting his players in a much better position to be effective and succeed than Paul is now.

 

[alf8478]

Johnson had the 4th highest overall +/- for all 4-3 DE in the league last year per PFF. Obviously that doesn't tell the whole story, but it is evidence he had a great season. Robert Quinn blew everyone away (JJ Watt style), then there's a huge dropoff from the 6th best to 7th best. It's indicative that Johnson as a Bengal was in the top tier (with Quinn in his own category).

Collins at LT helped represent our best o-line by FAR. It wasn't even close. His impact in the lineup was huge. And I'll simply add that his overall +/- extrapolated to the entire season (he played 8 our of 17 full games) would put him in the top tier of all tackles.

All that said, whether you consider them great on the Bengals or just very good, the point stands nonetheless. The Bengals should have resigned both. They didn't. Now they're feeling those losses.

Collins wanted to be paid like a starter, the grass probably wasn't greener on the other side for him, but it helped his bank account.

Can you see what Johnson's average grade was pre/post Atkins injury, because it seemed to me that his production went down with Geno. I could be wrong.

 

[alf8478]

Agree with this. I read an article during the offseason on NFL.com that talked extensively about the impact of Gruden and Zimmer on the roster. We had 2 of the best coordinators in the league on our team and they were propping up both Andy and Marvin.

So, PFF's overall team defense +/- covers all the net positive and net negative plays made by the defense. So each play, the net positive/negative plays by all 11 guys on the field. Who is making great plays and who isn't. At the end of last season, the Bengals overall defense was at +40.9 (12th in the league). As we stand today, the Bengals overall defense is -74.2 (last in the league).

Again, this isn't a measure of the strength of the defense (the sum of individual parts doesn't always equal the whole), simply the quality of plays being made by individual players, summed up. It points to the fact that Zimmer with his scheme, game-planning, and adjusting was putting his players in a much better position to be effective and succeed than Paul is now.

I admit it, Zimmer's loss is bigger than I thought it would be. I think Guenther is in over his head.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Zimmer leaving was an obvious step back. Anyone who didn't think we would miss him hasn't been paying attention. I never in my wildest dreams thought I would miss Jay Gruden. But this offense sucks without his scheme. He made Dalton look respectable. Hue sucks flaming ass. The Browns defenders even admitted we were so predictable they knew what was coming.

 

[cincygrad]

I don't think you can properly evaluate MJ in Tampa's defense. The whole thing has been a disaster and its not the same system he has been playing here for years. I don't think there is any reason to suspect had he resigned here for him to be any different than he was the previous two years. He was a good run-stopper and a three down player. He also knocked down a lot of passes.