Penalties/Game Over Time

[Puck082]

I wonder if the league tries to crack down on penalties again though as a way to boost scoring. I don't really think there's a ton of room to do that though. Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't see enough 'missed calls' on a game in and game out basis that would warrant a crack down. I think it's just a cleaner game right now.

Though goal scoring / point totals are way down. I don't know what the story could be for that.

Do you all think the crack down on diving is lowering these number?

 

[pixburgher66]

I can see both sides of it

Fans who want entertainment want more goals and more goals is fun, but coaches want to play a certain way because they see that's it's been successful and it's a copycat league - I think some players are scared of being more creative because of the risks involved and how coaches have an itch up their ass the second a player makes a mistake, because they begin to be paranoid as well

imo, the great teams will still win no matter what, so if the argument is that it's affecting certain teams that there are less penalties, than too bad - it's up to the teams to adjust - great teams will win no matter what the situation is - also, the great players in this league will adjust and find a way to be great offensively and defensively

Not making any comment in regard to it's effect on individual teams, but the whole "adjust" thing will only result in more stifling of offense. And the players are doing what they can, it's still similar guys at the top of the league...but their numbers are way down.

 

[pixburgher66]

And a far greater percentage of penalties called this year reek of the game management variety.

And there's another "must call" penalty around now too in delay of game. I wish I could find a list of penalties called throughout the year based on whether it's a hook/slash, etc.

 

[pixburgher66]

I wonder if the league tries to crack down on penalties again though as a way to boost scoring. I don't really think there's a ton of room to do that though. Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't see enough 'missed calls' on a game in and game out basis that would warrant a crack down. I think it's just a cleaner game right now.

Though goal scoring / point totals are way down. I don't know what the story could be for that.

Funny enough, the Flyers have finished pretty high in PP/game in the past five or so years (this year they're middle of the pack). The game is cleaner in some ways (elbows, etc), but hits away from the puck, subtle interference, things that are just late enough seem up, IMO.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Chicago Blackhawks are playing bad right now, but do you think one rough patch is going to take away their creativity? They do have guys with lots of skill(and skill is a legitimate part of being a creative player) but it's not going to prevent them from being creative offensively

There are teams(whether we like it or not) who have one rough patch and become paranoid because they have to play a certain way to be successful and they start getting defensive(like the Leafs) and it doesn't really work 99% of the time

That being said I think there's plenty of creativity in the league, I see great goals being scored every night, maybe there isn't as MANY goals scored period but the saying goes, "Quality over quantity" and I think the quality is absolutely terrific and that's the most important thing, imo

 

[awaz]

Funny enough, the Flyers have finished pretty high in PP/game in the past five or so years (this year they're middle of the pack). The game is cleaner in some ways (elbows, etc), but hits away from the puck, subtle interference, things that are just late enough seem up, IMO.

The bold isn't all that surprising with the way the game is called. Unfortunately, it seems like regardless of the actual play, refs don't want to end up with too lopsided of a PP for/against number for any team. Flyers games in recent years have just been heavily penalized games I would imagine. Lots of PPs for both teams. In all honesty, it's been a good strategy for the Flyers to have games like that. Excluding most of this season so far, the Flyers have been a top 5 PP team and top 5-10 PK team the past few years. Makes sense to play as much of it on uneven terms as you can if the refs insist on keeping it pretty close to even (which they shouldn't). The Flyers haven't been a good 5 on 5 team in years.

Perhaps the above is why I don't see missed calls as much haha. Flyers games they are calling everything?

 

[awaz]

Pix, have you by chance looked at goalie save percentages over those years too? Two follow up points to that, the goalie equipment issue raised previously, and a second, what if we're in a really good era for goalies without really realizing it?

I would think shots and shot attempts might help determine if it's really stingier defense or if it's something else.

Edit: (decided I could do some research too..)

2014-15
OV - 4.9 shots/game
Seguin - 4.1
Pacioretty - 3.8
Nash - 3.8
Sharp - 3.7
Karlsson - 3.6
Giroux - 3.6
Parise - 3.5
Tarasenko - 3.5
E. Kane - 3.4
Average: 3.79

2003-4
Kovalchuk - 4.2
Naslund - 3.8
Elias - 3.7
Berard - 3.5
Sykora - 3.4
Jokinen - 3.4
Shanahan - 3.4
Gaborik - 3.4
Nash - 3.4
Fedorov - 3.4
Average: 3.56

So, small sample size, but shooting is theoretically up a bit still from the lockout. Perhaps I can do a team stats thing.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Pix, have you by chance looked at goalie save percentages over those years too? Two follow up points to that, the goalie equipment issue raised previously, and a second, what if we're in a really good era for goalies without really realizing it?

I would think shots and shot attempts might help determine if it's really stingier defense or if it's something else.

Edit: (decided I could do some research too..)

2014-15
OV - 4.9 shots/game
Seguin - 4.1
Pacioretty - 3.8
Nash - 3.8
Sharp - 3.7
Karlsson - 3.6
Giroux - 3.6
Parise - 3.5
Tarasenko - 3.5
E. Kane - 3.4
Average: 3.79

2003-4
Kovalchuk - 4.2
Naslund - 3.8
Elias - 3.7
Berard - 3.5
Sykora - 3.4
Jokinen - 3.4
Shanahan - 3.4
Gaborik - 3.4
Nash - 3.4
Fedorov - 3.4
Average: 3.56

So, small sample size, but shooting is theoretically up a bit still from the lockout. Perhaps I can do a team stats thing.

I would agree with that because it seems like at the very least, teams get lots of shot attempts(ones that get blocked or don't get to the net)

 

[awaz]

Shots Per Game

2014-15
Chicago - 34.4
NYI - 33.8
Nashville- 31.9
Minnesota - 31.4
LA - 31.3
Top 5 Average: 32.6

Colorado - 28.7
Columbus - 28
Edmonton - 27.8
Calgary - 27.3
New Jersey - 24.1
Buffalo - 22.9
Bottom 5 Average: 26.02

30 Team Average: 29.79

2003-4
Boston - 30.5
Detroit - 30.3
Tampa Bay - 30.0
Anaheim - 29.7
New Jersey - 29.7
Top 5 Average - 30.4

Dallas - 26.8
Phoenix - 26.5
Atlanta - 26.1
Pittsburgh - 24.7
Minnesota - 24.2
Washington - 23.7
Bottom 5 Average: 25.04

30 Team Average: 28.05

Based on that shooting is still up from the lockout. (also a useful thing to know, that I learned after doing most of this, you can copy/paste nhl.com stats in to excel and it lines up nicely for maths)

 

[pixburgher66]

Pix, have you by chance looked at goalie save percentages over those years too? Two follow up points to that, the goalie equipment issue raised previously, and a second, what if we're in a really good era for goalies without really realizing it?

I would think shots and shot attempts might help determine if it's really stingier defense or if it's something else.

Edit: (decided I could do some research too..)

2014-15
OV - 4.9 shots/game
Seguin - 4.1
Pacioretty - 3.8
Nash - 3.8
Sharp - 3.7
Karlsson - 3.6
Giroux - 3.6
Parise - 3.5
Tarasenko - 3.5
E. Kane - 3.4
Average: 3.79

2003-4
Kovalchuk - 4.2
Naslund - 3.8
Elias - 3.7
Berard - 3.5
Sykora - 3.4
Jokinen - 3.4
Shanahan - 3.4
Gaborik - 3.4
Nash - 3.4
Fedorov - 3.4
Average: 3.56

So, small sample size, but shooting is theoretically up a bit still from the lockout. Perhaps I can do a team stats thing.

Obviously the issue isn't based on only one thing. When it comes to being in a good goalie era, I'd argue of the influence of better equipment in addition to simply being in a time of better athletes. In my eyes though, that only cements the idea that they need to do what they can to open up the game to scoring. If goalies are better athletes today, then something needs to be done about equipment or net size. I'm not one who thinks there HAS to be a million goals a night for it to be entertaining, but when you add up all the factors (fewer goals, fewer PP opportunities, new philosophy around league around shot-blocking/simple play, etc) it creates a less entertaining product. When it comes down to it, teams will adapt to however the league is constructed (currently it's possession heavy players), but the league does have a bit of a responsibility here too. I'm not seeking the 2005-06 5+ PP/game thing, because man that's crazy in it's own right, but it's hard to not notice a pretty blatant downward trend, and equally hard to not think it's coming from the league.

EDIT: something I discussed in a different thread too: this is just the regular season. We all know what the postseason brings in regard to penalties. If 3.14/game is a regular season thing, expect 1/game in the playoffs.

 

[pixburgher66]

RE: my last edit

Soooo...for the sake of being consistent, I wanted the PP/G in the postseason averages. Yeah, they're higher the past few years at least. Never would've guessed that really.

2013/14- 3.4/game (13-14: 3.27)
2012/13- 3.36/game (12-13: 3.32)
2011/12- 3.74/game (11-12: 3.31)
2010/11- 3.94/game (10-11: 3.54)
2009/10- 4.18/game (09-10: 3.71)
2008/09- 3.94/game (08-09: 4.16)

Parenthesis are the reg. season numbers.

 

[pixburgher66]

http://grossmisconducthockey.com/2015/02/23/throwback-rant/

Daggumit! He did all the work that I did before I did it and I could've just stolen his charts!

 

[DragonfromTO]

Another part of it is impetuous on shot blocking, which is certainly legal. But I think looking at Larionov's comments from today is also interesting. Creativity in today's game isn't looked upon in the same way. Datsyuk, Kane, Malkin, et al aren't allowed to do as much as they really could.

I would guess that shot blocking went up when they moved the blue lines back and made the offensive zones bigger.

 

[DragonfromTO]

RE: my last edit

Soooo...for the sake of being consistent, I wanted the PP/G in the postseason averages. Yeah, they're higher the past few years at least. Never would've guessed that really.

2013/14- 3.4/game (13-14: 3.27)
2012/13- 3.36/game (12-13: 3.32)
2011/12- 3.74/game (11-12: 3.31)
2010/11- 3.94/game (10-11: 3.54)
2009/10- 4.18/game (09-10: 3.71)
2008/09- 3.94/game (08-09: 4.16)

Parenthesis are the reg. season numbers.

I'm not surprised when any postseason per game rates are higher than the regular season, since postseason games are longer on average because of sudden death overtime. Can you find the per 60 minute rates anywhere?

 

[pixburgher66]

I'm not surprised when any postseason per game rates are higher than the regular season, since postseason games are longer on average because of sudden death overtime. Can you find the per 60 minute rates anywhere?

You, sir, think on your feet. Great call. However, I really doubt there's that specific of data. Well, *sigh*, there is, but it'd involve me looking at each individual box score and figuring it out from that.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

You, sir, think on your feet. Great call. However, I really doubt there's that specific of data. Well, *sigh*, there is, but it'd involve me looking at each individual box score and figuring it out from that.

That sounds like a lot of work.

You'd better get started then.

 

[pixburgher66]

That sounds like a lot of work.

You'd better get started then.

Hah, I'm about to go to work, and normally that'd be not a bad time (paperwork is down this month, yeayyy), but today I'm actually booked solid.