Tournament Thread Pac 12 Tournament

[CCF151]

Zona is definitely having a down/rebuilding year. I'm just glad the Ducks have a good team this year to take advantage of it. Maybe if they do well in the NCAA tourney they can start luring in more good recruits to regularly compete with the Cats.

 

[ericd7633]

That's just not true. With or without Elliot Pitts...sure. Trier is too good a player to brush him off like that.

Trier is a really good player, no doubt. He's an NBA type of talent. However, he's not the most efficient player, really doesn't get others involved, and has a negative assist to turnover ratio.

 

[ericd7633]

He's literally our only shot creator on the team. Sorry, but that's BS.

He's a good player, and an NBA talent, probably a 2nd round talent, but NBA talent non the less. It is crazy that Arizona has played slightly better without him, not only overall, but in Pac 12 play as well. Look, I obviously wish he was on my dumpster fire team, but Arizona is suited to play well without him for whatever reason.

 

[ericd7633]

This is what happens when you go off a piece of paper and not really knowing the team you're talking about.

Also, eye test too. I'm intrigued though, tell me how they have been so much better in Pac 12 play without him? We already know the numbers and stats don't back up that claim, and neither does the performance of the team IMO. Like I said earlier, they lost close games with him and without him, and blew out bad teams with and without him. And I've watched a ton of Arizona games this year. But I will say, I've watched mostly the games against the better competition, and honestly as a whole they haven't been overly impressive against those types of teams.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Also, eye test too. I'm intrigued though, tell me how they have been so much better in Pac 12 play without him? We already know the numbers and stats don't back up that claim, and neither does the performance of the team IMO. Like I said earlier, they lost close games with him and without him, and blew out bad teams with and without him. And I've watched a ton of Arizona games this year. But I will say, I've watched mostly the games against the better competition, and honestly as a whole they haven't been overly impressive against those types of teams.

First of all, as I already stated, the numbers are flawed because they don't count USC as a game that was affected by injury. And I'm not going to go through and completely analyze Trier's importance. It should be clear by having watched them this season. His absence mainly affects AZ's ability to develop chemistry, and especially in the back court. I could tell that by and large, he spent the first half of the season trying to increase his ability to effectively drive to the rim, draw fouls, score, and then make the and 1. He had some problems early overpenetrating and not finishing. He drew more charges than he needed to and wasn't smooth enough when finishing. He really started to execute this when he got hurt. In general, he is a great scorer. He is averaging 15 ppg in less than 30 mpg. That's pretty significant when you lose that offense. When he came back, he had to find that drive, score, and getting fouled. He's getting it back, but it would already be solid had he not gotten injured. The other clear benefit he gives us is the added threat for opposing guards. When he is playing his game, who does the best opposing defender defend between him and York? When both are at their best, there will be a weakness on opposing defenses to cover both well. When Trier went out, and was just coming back, it was pretty clear to me that York had the added pressure of being the only guard threat. Now that Trier is back and getting back to where he was before the injury, it spreads the defenses and allows for a better offense. Any way you want to call it, AZ went 5-3 in games he was injured. That alone speaks to the fact that we missed him. Add to that the fact that we lost 15ppg and barely lost, it's reasonable to say that he would have only added to the point total. Again, his ability to hit a three when defenders aren't in his pocket, and to also blow by defenders, draw in the defense, be able to not overpenetrate and take good shots, make them, draw fouls, and make the FT (at 80%), is huge for us. It also helps to rack up the fouls on opponents. Had he not gotten injured, and developed that part of his game the whole season, would have been amazing for us at this point. But right when he was getting comfortable with it, he got hurt and was out for a month. THe other aspect is that he was a SG playing the SF. So when he went out, and combined with the fact that we lost our main SG (Smith) preseason, and then lost Trier's backup at SF (Pitts) midway though the season, Tolly had to play SF at 6'9". That also changed the offence a little, as Trier was a main scoring piece. Tolly started to settle into the role, and then Trier came back, and it disrupted the offense again.

Again, this all seemed pretty blatant to someone really following he Cats this season.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

He's a good player, and an NBA talent, probably a 2nd round talent, but NBA talent non the less. It is crazy that Arizona has played slightly better without him, not only overall, but in Pac 12 play as well. Look, I obviously wish he was on my dumpster fire team, but Arizona is suited to play well without him for whatever reason.

2nd round talent this year, but is in the first round in a lot of mocks for 2017… I think he declares this year though so you're probably right about him going in round 2, maybe late round 1 if he gets hot in the tourney.

I think that's too small of a sample size to judge based off what, 7 games?

Look, they went 5-2 without him (not including the USC loss). That's not that great considering the teams they played.

Lost the games against Cal and Oregon because they lacked a scorer in both games. Beat Wazzu twice (easy wins w/or w/out him), beat Stanford, Washington and Oregon State.

Not really that impressive. They missed him.

 

[trojanfan12]

First of all, as I already stated, the numbers are flawed because they don't count USC as a game that was affected by injury. And I'm not going to go through and completely analyze Trier's importance. It should be clear by having watched them this season. His absence mainly affects AZ's ability to develop chemistry, and especially in the back court. I could tell that by and large, he spent the first half of the season trying to increase his ability to effectively drive to the rim, draw fouls, score, and then make the and 1. He had some problems early overpenetrating and not finishing. He drew more charges than he needed to and wasn't smooth enough when finishing. He really started to execute this when he got hurt. In general, he is a great scorer. He is averaging 15 ppg in less than 30 mpg. That's pretty significant when you lose that offense. When he came back, he had to find that drive, score, and getting fouled. He's getting it back, but it would already be solid had he not gotten injured. The other clear benefit he gives us is the added threat for opposing guards. When he is playing his game, who does the best opposing defender defend between him and York? When both are at their best, there will be a weakness on opposing defenses to cover both well. When Trier went out, and was just coming back, it was pretty clear to me that York had the added pressure of being the only guard threat. Now that Trier is back and getting back to where he was before the injury, it spreads the defenses and allows for a better offense. Any way you want to call it, AZ went 5-3 in games he was injured. That alone speaks to the fact that we missed him. Add to that the fact that we lost 15ppg and barely lost, it's reasonable to say that he would have only added to the point total. Again, his ability to hit a three when defenders aren't in his pocket, and to also blow by defenders, draw in the defense, be able to not overpenetrate and take good shots, make them, draw fouls, and make the FT (at 80%), is huge for us. It also helps to rack up the fouls on opponents. Had he not gotten injured, and developed that part of his game the whole season, would have been amazing for us at this point. But right when he was getting comfortable with it, he got hurt and was out for a month. THe other aspect is that he was a SG playing the SF. So when he went out, and combined with the fact that we lost our main SG (Smith) preseason, and then lost Trier's backup at SF (Pitts) midway though the season, Tolly had to play SF at 6'9". That also changed the offence a little, as Trier was a main scoring piece. Tolly started to settle into the role, and then Trier came back, and it disrupted the offense again.

Again, this all seemed pretty blatant to someone really following he Cats this season.

 

[The Derski]

View attachment 95876

It's CTP. He likes to write novels. Get used to it.

 

[CatsTopPac]

View attachment 95876

It's CTP. He likes to write novels. Get used to it.

I was in between classes and so it's pretty rough. As a side note, Smith is a SF, not SG. And there are a few other errors because I only had a few minutes. If I'd have broken it up into a couple/three paragraphs it'd be easier to digest.

All that being said, the Pac 12 coaches just got together and decided to put Trier on the All-Freshmen Team, despite the fact that he missed 40% of the conference season. Maybe they were duped on how important Trier was too

 

[CCF151]

I was in between classes and so it's pretty rough. As a side note, Smith is a SF, not SG. And there are a few other errors because I only had a few minutes. If I'd have broken it up into a couple/three paragraphs it'd be easier to digest.

All that being said, the Pac 12 coaches just got together and decided to put Trier on the All-Freshmen Team, despite the fact that he missed 40% of the conference season. Maybe they were duped on how important Trier was too

Is there TL : DR version?

 

[Monte Carlo Wildcat]

If we can keep shooting the long ball the way we have lately, this is our tournament to lose! However, if we dont, we could be out at any point

 

[trojanfan12]

I was in between classes and so it's pretty rough. As a side note, Smith is a SF, not SG. And there are a few other errors because I only had a few minutes. If I'd have broken it up into a couple/three paragraphs it'd be easier to digest.

All that being said, the Pac 12 coaches just got together and decided to put Trier on the All-Freshmen Team, despite the fact that he missed 40% of the conference season. Maybe they were duped on how important Trier was too

That kid was something else before he got hurt in that 4 OT game. If not for him, I think USC would have won in regulation. Every time you guys needed a big shot, he would hit it.

Dude was pissing me off all game long.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Is there TL : DR version?

'Fraid not. But read it, it's a good story! Young man goes out into the world, meets new people, engages in historic battles, empires rise and fall, etc. It's a tale of perseverance, shitty haircuts, and ends with a big dance!

 

[winningTorch]

Can't wait for the Bill Walton commentary.

 

[DHoey]

Tourney Time fellas!!!! Dawgs and Cardinal about to tip it off. I think it's gonna be a dogfight of a tourney!!

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Time to stick a fork in ASU tonight...

 

[DHoey]

Dawgs came to play today! Let's hope they keep it up

 

[The Derski]

Wow PAC 12 networks is so retarded. Washington is playing stanford right now but apparently only the Bay Area and Washington can actually watch it... How fucking stupid is that shit? Where is the common sense?

 

[The Derski]

Right now I'm watching a replay of OSU and ASU from like a month ago than no one cares about...

 

[DHoey]

Wow PAC 12 networks is so retarded. Washington is playing stanford right now but apparently only the Bay Area and Washington can actually watch it... How fucking stupid is that shit? Where is the common sense?

That's lame as hell!