OT:The pretend like Doug Wilson will make a trade thread

[sjrules99]

He's the Sharks leading scorer in the PO's over the last five years. What does that say about the rest of the team then if you're calling Thornton a no show?

While I agree that it is time for the Sharks to move on from Thornton and Marleau it is wrong in every way, shape, and form to call those two the problem with the team. The team is built poorly plain and simple and that is on Wilson. There is a major lack of skill sets at both forward and defense that are essential to winning. The organizational lack of depth, primarily at the forward position, has forced McLellan to give regular ice time to players who are questionable NHLers at best. That is also on Wilson.

I would not agree here....

It is time to move on, and the team is poorly built, but the big two are a huge problem. Neither is a leader and neither has real fire to win, not like Boyle or even JR, dare I say it. patty is so so streaky, and has, throughout his career flat disappeared for lengthy stretches. He is famous for this in both the regular season and the PO's. I wouldnt be surprised to see him score 10 goals in the next 10 games, but that kind of irregular effort and performance won't cut it.

Jumbo has been the best sharks this year with the exception of pavelski and maybe pickles. Jumbo controls the puck better than anyone maybe in the whole league. He draws calls alot. He controls the play. However, his one-dimensional game fails when the going gets tough because someone else has to score. Jumbo is only as effective as someone else to put the puck in the net. Because of this, teams can play off his weakness, and time and again we've seen jumbo's lack of shooting and lack of scoring to bite the sharks. Jumbo is a great player on a team that doesnt rely on him. He is not, however, a true #1 center simply because he just doesnt pose a threat himself.

I would disagree on how the team is built poorly. In addition to the aforementioned lack of fire form the "leadership", their D sucks. I dont know how else to say it. Dougie gutted it. For a former defenseman, I am shocked that he doesnt focus more on D. They have TWO, yes, TWO NHL caliber legit Dmen. Pickles is an olympian for his defensive efforts. Hes a shut down guy and one of the best in the league. Braun is a similar player though lesser. Burns is a liability, Irwin is AHL fodder (maybe #6 or 7 on a so so team), Dillon totally sucks (sorry cmon, I totally disagree with you on him. He is god fucking awful and if dougie can get a depth pick for him, he should), Hannan is not far from social security and is a #7 or 8 now, Tennyson is a #9, and Mueller is not yet aloud to have alcohol and plays like it. He is clearly not ready for the big show and they goofed in rushing him. Put it all together and they have TWO defensemen. You cant win that way. To me, it's the D, not forwards that are the problem, and I think that's also a major reason why the sharks are near the bottom of the league in goals against.

If dougie wants to build a winner, he needs to add top defensemen through trade, draft, or UFA, but I saw this year coming a mile away when they moved burns to D, traded stuey, and let boyle walk. No way you can lose two of your top 4 Dmen, add noone to the roster, and count on a 19 year old to pick up the slack. Ridiculous...

 

[ads_2006]

Down year for the sharks and might be the sign of things to come.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Good post Rules.

I don't disagree with much of what you say in your first two paragraphs but what you are saying ties into the points I made. Leadership doesn't come from just two people but at the same time too many Boyles and Roenicks would implode the lockerroom. Marleau and Thornton give the same post game responses that Yzerman, Sakic, and Lidstrom gave after losses but we question Marleau and Thornton's fire and leadership because they have not won the cup. Is it right for people to question them? 110% yes. I just see much bigger problems that contribute to the teams failures than the play or leadership of those two.

As for Thornton, organizational depth, or lack there of, is the reason PO teams are able to exploit Joe's style of play. If a team can focus all it's energy on one or two lines with little threat from the 3rd and 4th lines or the defense they can shut those players down no matter how good they are. They also lack a player with a skill set to compliment Pavelski and Thornton. Burns was the closest they got but he is much more important to the team as a dman. The team in general severely lacks players with high end stick skills and skating ability. We also keep hearing about how "fast" the Sharks are but in reality they are not a fast team at all. Nieto is fast but lacks edge work and is over matched in the role that he is playing. Marleau is fast but is pigeon holed into an F3 role no matter who his line mates are so he rarely gets to use it. Burn's skating has been a saving grace for the Sharks as far as transitioning defense to offense. Other than that there is Braun who doesn't transition the puck particularly well and Kennedy who's either injured or a healthy scratch. These are all traits that cup winning teams have in spades throughout their line up and the Sharks severely lack.

On defense they have only one dman with the multifaceted ability to pass or skate the puck in transition and that's Burns. I know you're a stats guy so you should look at the Shark's forwards advanced stats (Fenwick, PDO, Rel Corsi) with and without Burns on the ice. The difference is astronomical. There are only one other dman in the league that comes close to having the same positive effect on a forward group and that's Duncan Keith. That's as much a positive about Burns' play as it is condemning the rest of the defensive group's ability to transition the puck. Without Burn's transition ability this team would be much further out of a PO spot than it is now. They need more of that skill set from their defensive group. Unless they are elite defensively like Vlasic they need to be able to transition the puck and no one but Burns has that ability. Tennyson showed some flashes of it and the team played better with him in the line up but he's now back in the AHL.

I'm sorry rules but Wilson has failed to build organizational depth and failed to identify the traits that have produced winning teams. And by "organizational depth" I mean 4 lines that can all contribute in some way at an NHL level and 3 defense pairing with the ability to effectively move the puck. To me that far out weighs any issues with Thornton and Marleau.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Some talk out of Toronto has the Sharks making a play for Bernier and Gardiner.

 

[Cbrower91]

Some talk out of Toronto has the Sharks making a play for Bernier and Gardiner.

Bernier sucks a bag of dicks, probably better off staying with Nemo and thats painful to say lol. I know Gardiner is highly thought of but im shocked hes even in play.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Any goalie would suck a bag of dicks behind that Toronto team.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

So Boston had three scouts at the Sharks last game. Now local Boston media is reporting they've added speed at the forward position and Kennedy is a healthy scratch tonight for the Sharks. Probably just wishful thinking on my part but it would be nice to see the Sharks get a 2nd or 3rd for him.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Kurz reporting Rick Dudley, Canadiens Assistant GM, sitting in press box with Wilson tonight.

 

[Cbrower91]

Any goalie would suck a bag of dicks behind that Toronto team.

True but he hasn't shown anything that he won't suck any where else, even Reimer was able to almost get that team into the playoffs same can't be said for bernier

 

[MrChangoT97]

Sellers this trade deadline, so sad

 

[shrksfn9192]

Too bad that idiot Doug Wilson can't be traded for an actual NHL GM.

 

[sjrules99]

Sellers this trade deadline, so sad

Just got home from the "game". amazing that it could happen basically 3 days in a row so amazingly similar just when it matters most. 3 straight horrific 3rd periods to drop 6 points.

Strangely enough, the last three losses, being all in the 3rd period, and all in regulation have functionally turned the sharks from ambiguous at the deadline to clearcut sellers. No longer does dougie have the option to keep the UFA's. Nemo now has to go. 100%. Kennedy, Irwin, and the rest as well if there is any market for it. At this point, dougie is definitely a seller, but if the sharks had won one or two, theyd still be much more in the hunt and thus much more confusing.

This is the moment where dougie tests his mettle to get value in return. It is also the moment where dougie attempts to keep his job by getting said value.

I cannot imagine the sharks being quiet at this deadline after losing 8 straight at home, 3 straight in the third period, and two in a row blowing a 3rd period lead to lose in regulation. Good teams might only do that once or twice in a whole season and the sharks did it back to back.

Lastly, Todd is a goner. What's happening now is largely between the ears of the players. The coach is a huge part of that and only coaching can explain to me the sharks having great periods (the 2nd vs. LA, 1sts vs. det and ott) and then laying absolute eggs in the other. Not to mention the absolute disaster of a PK. Todd's tenure is up, and I think he knows it.

It is, sadly, the end of an era in San Jose. We fans are a little spoiled. We had a decade straight of cup contending teams. They fell short, and now its over. I think its fair to expect a prolonged, painful, and difficult period in the history of the sharks to come and the thornton-marleau era limps to a close.

 

[MrChangoT97]

We did have a nice run filled with a couple of "what ifs", so sad but it just sucks when you have to start over.

 

[shrksfn9192]

The faster they can move on from the Marleau-Thornton era, the better. I would rather lose with a bunch of young players who are developing and building up to something, rather than lose with vets who never had or will have the championship intangibles (like those two). They are just hanging on for the short-term and won't be in future plans. Don't drag it out, begin the rebuild ASAP.

 

[MrFlyingV]

The faster they can move on from the Marleau-Thornton era, the better. I would rather lose with a bunch of young players who are developing and building up to something, rather than lose with vets who never had or will have the championship intangibles (like those two). They are just hanging on for the short-term and won't be in future plans. Don't drag it out, begin the rebuild ASAP.

Sad to say the Thornton-Marleau era continues for another 2 years. No legit free agent is going to want to sign here with this leadership structure still in place. Next year we are talking Edmonton/Buffalo bad. Any chance we get Connor McDavid if they keep sucking and miss the playoffs?

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Sad to say the Thornton-Marleau era continues for another 2 years. No legit free agent is going to want to sign here with this leadership structure still in place. Next year we are talking Edmonton/Buffalo bad. Any chance we get Connor McDavid if they keep sucking and miss the playoffs?

Right now they are at 2% to win the McDavid sweeps. Every drop in the rankings increases that percentage.

 

[MrChangoT97]

Not even worth it, the past has proven that any superstar that comes to SJ has a serious drop in performance

 

[Mr. Teal]

What I would love to see happen is Doug Wilson fired and the Sharks petition the NHL to undo the no trade clauses since it is a egregiously incompetent move which threatens to do irreparable harm to one of the league's teams. It's unethical for Marleau and Thornton to take advantage of the situation the way they have.It's not going happen but it's nice to dream.

 

[MrChangoT97]

Yandle to NYR, lovely

Wonder if Doug had a chance?

 

[MrFlyingV]

Not even worth it, the past has proven that any superstar that comes to SJ has a serious drop in performance

AKA the Pat Falloon Syndrome. He carried that virus and it permeated that locker room since Day 1 of this franchise:

Look at all the cases:

Pat Falloon himself
Dany Heatley
Jeff Friesen
Jan Caloun
Victor Kozlov
Craig Janney
Bill Guerin
even Teemo Selanne had a near fatal case until he returned to the warm dry air of Orange County.
Steve Bernier
Milan Michalek
Marty Havlat
and who can forget Jonathan Cheechoo. Worst case of all. Rocket Richard to out of the league in 3 years. His blood is in a biotech lab right now trying to figure out a cure.

and a few others that I may have forgotten.

now Tomas Hertl and Matt Nieto may have early symptoms

Only a few have survived it. Owen Nolan, Joe Paveski, Marleau, Thornton, and maybe Couture. 5 players in 20+ years. Some got better when they left like Selanne and Ray Whitney.