OT:The pretend like Doug Wilson will make a trade thread

[Likewall32]

HAHAHAHAHAHHHAHHAHAHAAAHHAHAHHAAH Cmon, while I amire your opinion and youve been proven wrong over and over and over and over again (and It still baffles me how you are somehow a pro scout).... Thornton and Marleau will not fetch ANYTHING CLOSE to a blue chip prospect in the offseason -- while SJSarks is an idiot suggesting trading Hertl & Nieto, I think your comment, knowing your claiming knowledge is even more rediculous... They will not fetch SHIT in the offseason, and season after season not just wit SJ proves they would fetch more at the deadline, EVEN with their 2 years on the contracts... They can SEE where they are going now and with NMC they arent going to blidnly wave it in the offseason where anything can happen with the team they wave for.. NOW is the time to move them where they can see Cups, and those teams adding them can move them again if it doesnt work... it doesnt hurt those teams picking up cause teams looking at them dont give 2 hits bout next year, they are to win TODAYS CUP.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

You obviously know nothing about how the front offices work. And I'm giving you a ton of credit listing it at just nothing.

Rules is not an idiot. Quite the opposite in fact. I've found him to be very intelligent and insightful most of the time. He looks for and suggests possible ways to change the team for the better. Are they all good ones? No, but he at least provides reasoning and support for his ideas and opinions instead of resorting to childish name calling.

I'm done responding to you likewall. if you cannot respond to a conversation with some semblance of intelligence and respect then you add nothing to this message board.

 

[sjrules99]

Because he bought a bigger house for the new baby.

Rules, do you want to see the Sharks become exactly like the Maple Leafs are now because that is precisely what you are suggesting.

Nieto and Hertl are having down years because they are sophomores in their 1st full year at the NHL level. Hertl was also still recovering from his knee problems for much of the season.

You don't trade players just to trade them unless they are causing problems in the locker room. The Sharks are not going to garner some huge return for Thornton or Marleau. If they are moved at the deadline they won't get much more than a late 1st and a B level prospect. If they move in the offseason where Wilson will have more options they will probably be able to get multiple picks plus a bluechip prospect or young roster player.

The leafs problems are deep. They have no leadership. They have no coach. They have no identity. They have a dum dum GM (5+M for clarkson? are you kidding?). They are a chicken with their head cut off. With a good coach and a clear leader on the team (not phaneuf or kessel, neither of which is known for consistency and effort), the leafs would be fine. They obviously had the talent on the ice to win, just not the coaching, the leadership, and the drive.

For me, the sharks are heading in that direction. I think the true captain of the sharks the last 6 years was Dan Boyle. Not only was he the key cog on the D, played massive minutes, and captained the PP, he had the fire inside of him. He was angry when they lost and truly, in his gut, expected to win and felt all else as a failure. I will never forget the state of the sharks event after they lost to anaheim in round one way back when. Jumbo and patty were all "matter-of-fact, oh well, tough break" about it. Boyle was PISSED. He aplogized repeatedly and explained that it was unacceptable while taking personal responsibility. He didnt have a C, but he was a C.

I think what we are seeing is a transformation into those leafs. Mclellan is on his way out as he clearly has lost the team. Jumbo and patty are not leaders. Never have been. The Sharks' chicken is losing its head. A Kessel deal would be a last ditch effort to recapture the head before the whole thing falls apart.

As for When they deal JT and PM, I dont care if its deadline or offseason. I realllly wanted it last offseason when the value was highest, but whenever dougie can get the best return works for me. Then the head should fall to pavs and cooch. I see both as having fire and caring alot, and a coach with respectability and a nice resume should come in. Not sure who, but the Todd is one foot out.

 

[MrFlyingV]

Can they actually deal Marleau or Thornton? Are those NTC's for all teams, or is there just a list of teams where they cannot be traded? If you think it is ugly now, the last two years of those contracts of those two in teal will really be ugly. They are aging now you can see, just watch the next two years and with underachieving young talent, it could get much uglier here for the near future. Man did Dougie hamstring this team with those deals. For that, he should be shown the door.

 

[sjrules99]

Also, let me clarify that I am not advocating dealing hertl or nieto, just mentioning something that I could see happening given the reasons I listed before.

I think the sharks best bet is to look forward 2-3 years. I see this as:
1. Build the team around the core of cooch, pavs, wingels, nieto, hertl, Karlsson, and tierney at forward. It's not a particularly strong core of forwards, but it's what they have. On D, build around braun and pickles, and I suppose burns and mueller. Not too deep there either, but such is life.

2. Looking at the farm: They seem to have several potential solid forwards inlcuding O'regan, chartier, sadowy, goldobin, lebanc. Maybe Noah Rod too based on his world jr performance. On D though, they are thinner. Just bergman and maybe brodzinsky. Abeltshauser might poke his head in the NHL, but they dont seem to have much top 4 potentials.

Put that together and I think the sharks would be wise to deal the big two, nemo, and just about every other UFA and RFA they have in exchange for young NHL Dmen, defensive prospects, and picks. Now, looking at the UFA market this upcoming year, its pretty thin, so Cmon might be right about better value in the offseason. Either way, they need to build from the net out.

IF they can build out a solid future on D, then they can hope that some of their farm kids pan out at forward, and then use some cap space to shop for a top 6 forward or two, and they might be able to complete the rebuild within a year or two.

If they hold on to the big two for the next two years and add no value through trades, they will be the leafs and the rebuild could be 5+ years. Dougie already messed up big time keeping them this past offseason, so to do so for the next two years would be devastating to the franchise.

 

[sjrules99]

Can they actually deal Marleau or Thornton? Are those NTC's for all teams, or is there just a list of teams where they cannot be traded? If you think it is ugly now, the last two years of those contracts of those two in teal will really be ugly. They are aging now you can see, just watch the next two years and with underachieving young talent, it could get much uglier here for the near future. Man did Dougie hamstring this team with those deals. For that, he should be shown the door.

Good question. I think technically, they cant make any deal without their approval. That said, I doubt they will say no if dougie makes it 100% clear they are not wanted. My guess is that dougie doesnt want to do that.

At the time, the extensions were fine. That was before the epic LA swoon. The deal number was reasonable, and I actually liked it in light of the bright future with nieto and hertl. Problem is, after the LA loss, boyle's departure, and dougie just keeping the cap space and gutting the roster, the big two became symbols of the past competitiveness and keeping them has stopped the sharks from moving forward to the next phase of the franchise. The big changes promised after the LA loss never came. Dougie did nothing. He added nothing. He subtracted some old vets. Now they have no captain, no leadership, and a useless coach. Dougie has made a mess of a situation that could have been salvaged with some balls to stand up to the big two and get some real value last offseason.

Now, he needs to cut his losses and get at least some value for them either at the deadline or the offseason.

I thought last summer would be a watershed summer for the sharks, but it wasnt. Now I think the same again. I guess we'll see...

 

[sjrules99]

For the record, I still hate PM No surprise for me to see this suckage, and him at the team worst -14. He sucks. He always has. He's ridden the coattails of jumbo since he arrived, and is the most overrated player on the sharks, maybe in the league. No jumbo = patty as mediocre 2nd liner. If there is one single player most responsible for the sharks this year, its him.

hahaha, just had to throw in my PM jab

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Can they actually deal Marleau or Thornton? Are those NTC's for all teams, or is there just a list of teams where they cannot be traded? If you think it is ugly now, the last two years of those contracts of those two in teal will really be ugly. They are aging now you can see, just watch the next two years and with underachieving young talent, it could get much uglier here for the near future. Man did Dougie hamstring this team with those deals. For that, he should be shown the door.

It is near impossible to move them at the deadline. No cup favorite team can take the cap hit without sending back a major cap dump which Wilson has said he won't do.

Rules, last off-season I got the impression Wilson didn't paint a pretty picture of the future in the hopes that Thornton and Marleau would request a trade on their own. This off-season hopefully he won't beat around the bush and just tell them he wants to trade them.

 

[RaiderZar]

It is near impossible to move them at the deadline. No cup favorite team can take the cap hit without sending back a major cap dump which Wilson has said he won't do.

Rules, last off-season I got the impression Wilson didn't paint a pretty picture of the future in the hopes that Thornton and Marleau would request a trade on their own. This off-season hopefully he won't beat around the bush and just tell them he wants to trade them.

Why not make them healthy scratches for the rest of the season. Message sent, (hopefully) message received.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Why not make them healthy scratches for the rest of the season. Message sent, (hopefully) message received.

That would send a very bad message to the players both on the team and around the league. Trying to force players out who you signed to contracts in good faith would assuredly end Wilson's tenure as GM of the Sharks and probably ensure he'd never hold that spot with another team. While I'm sure some on this message board would be okay with that I doubt Wilson himself would.

 

[Mr. Teal]

That would send a very bad message to the players both on the team and around the league. Trying to force players out who you signed to contracts in good faith would assuredly end Wilson's tenure as GM of the Sharks and probably ensure he'd never hold that spot with another team. While I'm sure some on this message board would be okay with that I doubt Wilson himself would.

What sends a bad message to the league is players fleecing their team by establishing NTC's and proceeding to not try their best because they're guaranteed to make millions regardless of how bad they play.

Marleau and Thornton need to be treated badly at this point because they're already treating the team and the organization badly through their childish entitled behavior.

Make them want to go elsewhere as far as I'm concerned. Their welcome has long since been worn out in San Jose. Now they're actively sabotaging the future of the team and thus betraying the fans. Meanwhile Wilson needs to go since he enabled this situation. He's traded the future of this team for the egos of two players whose interests are not compatible with a winning franchise.

 

[23sharks]

From personal point of view adding Sharp to the veteran leadership group through the rebuild would be a very good move. Though, with the Hawks looming cap issues this offseason I would be surprised if they were willing to take a player making as much as Marleau or Thornton who's contract runs past this year.

The reality of the situation with everything that has been done and said is that Wilson has the leadership group he wants in place for the rebuild in Pavelski, Vlasic, Couture, and probably Wingels. He's only looking to add young pieces the organization can develop now.

You may want to rethink that after the report I read earlier about Sharp. Said he is a locker room problem, and may have been one of the guys involved in a locker room fight.
The reporter went on to say he doesn't lead the clean life some think he does.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

What has Thornton done to make you think he is not putting in the effort. Night in and night out he's been one of if not the best player on the ice for the Sharks. Granted some games this year that's not saying much but there was little effort from all the players those games.

Marleau is having a bad year for sure. This is the first year in a long while that his line is getting beat going up against the other teams top lines. However the numbers are far worse when other players go up against top lines with out Marleau. He averages the 2nd most TOI among forwards for a reason and it isn't because he's just there to collect a pay check.

 

[Mr. Teal]

What has Thornton done to make you think he is not putting in the effort. Night in and night out he's been one of if not the best player on the ice for the Sharks. Granted some games this year that's not saying much but there was little effort from all the players those games.

I openly dispute your claim that Thornton is adequate.
In the last 5 games Thornton has 2 assists, is a -5 with 2 SOG.

Furthermore in the playoffs, he is a perpetual no show. I don't care if he scores 100 goals a year, if he can't produce in the post season, what's the point? This is a career thing with him. He's our Tony Romo.

Dump the dead weight and rebuild. That's the only way the Sharks will ever become relevant again.

At this point, Marleau and Thornton are like government employees nearing retirement. They're just here for the paycheck.

At this rate, we're going to be watching this same thing happen again and again until 2017 when we can finally bid these guys adios but there may not be a lot of fans in the seats at this point.

Hell just look at the last few game threads to see how high interest in Sharks hockey has been this year.

Something needs to change immediately.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

You may want to rethink that after the report I read earlier about Sharp. Said he is a locker room problem, and may have been one of the guys involved in a locker room fight.
The reporter went on to say he doesn't lead the clean life some think he does.

Not that it matters because Wilson has said many times he's not adding any vets but I think Sharp just needs a fresh start somewhere. I actually think the Caps would be a good spot for him.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I openly dispute your claim that Thornton is adequate.
In the last 5 games Thornton has 2 assists, is a -5 with 2 SOG.

Furthermore in the playoffs, he is a perpetual no show. I don't care if he scores 100 goals a year, if he can't produce in the post season, what's the point? This is a career thing with him. He's our Tony Romo.

Dump the dead weight and rebuild. That's the only way the Sharks will ever become relevant again.

At this point, Marleau and Thornton are like government employees nearing retirement. They're just here for the paycheck.

At this rate, we're going to be watching this same thing happen again and again until 2017 when we can finally bid these guys adios but there may not be a lot of fans in the seats at this point.

Hell just look at the last few game threads to see how high interest in Sharks hockey has been this year.

Something needs to change immediately.

He's the Sharks leading scorer in the PO's over the last five years. What does that say about the rest of the team then if you're calling Thornton a no show?

While I agree that it is time for the Sharks to move on from Thornton and Marleau it is wrong in every way, shape, and form to call those two the problem with the team. The team is built poorly plain and simple and that is on Wilson. There is a major lack of skill sets at both forward and defense that are essential to winning. The organizational lack of depth, primarily at the forward position, has forced McLellan to give regular ice time to players who are questionable NHLers at best. That is also on Wilson.

 

[Cbrower91]

Because he bought a bigger house for the new baby.

Rules, do you want to see the Sharks become exactly like the Maple Leafs are now because that is precisely what you are suggesting.

Nieto and Hertl are having down years because they are sophomores in their 1st full year at the NHL level. Hertl was also still recovering from his knee problems for much of the season.

You don't trade players just to trade them unless they are causing problems in the locker room. The Sharks are not going to garner some huge return for Thornton or Marleau. If they are moved at the deadline they won't get much more than a late 1st and a B level prospect. If they move in the offseason where Wilson will have more options they will probably be able to get multiple picks plus a bluechip prospect or young roster player.

I think Nieto is probably going to be a bust he has some young marleau like qualities but I just think last year was a flash in the pan

 

[Cbrower91]

Ps the Sarasota home was an extra rental property pollack reported that like 5 months ago

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I think Nieto is probably going to be a bust he has some young marleau like qualities but I just think last year was a flash in the pan

I think he will end up being a good 3rd liner. It's pretty obvious though that he is clearly out matched going up against the other teams top forward lines.

 

[sjrules99]

I think he will end up being a good 3rd liner. It's pretty obvious though that he is clearly out matched going up against the other teams top forward lines.

He reminds me of Torrey Mitchell. Great speed, undersized, so so hands. I think he is also a 3rd liner-to-be. Might pot 20 at his highest. more likely a 10-15 guy. I think he's a solid NHLer, just struggling with confidence, some injuries, bad coaching, etc. That said, I dont think dealing him hurts a ton. I dont see him ever emerging as a legit top 6 forward. Hertl has a much higher ceiling if we are comparing the two.