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OT..The Hand Of God Or Blind Chance?

TKO

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In case anyone reading this doesn't know what one is...a dynamo is an electric generator. At its simplest form, you can rotate copper wire between magnets and you'll create electricity. In a larger man-made form you can think of hydroelectric dams where the water turns turbines to create electricity. A by product of that dynamo is magnetism.

Now let's take a quick look at the Earth and the Sun with a dynamo in mind.

Under the Earth's crust is molten magma that flows around a solid core...a ball of solid metal in other words. That flow creates a mile wide current of electricity, just like a simple rotating dynamo can produce electricity. That electricity produces magnetism that escapes at the poles and shelters this planet from cosmic radiation. Could there be a profound reason why this happens to be how the Earth is constructed or is it just blind chance? I'll relate the following and let you decide:

From the "Secrets Of The Sun" episode on the PBS' show NOVA :
KAREL SCHRIJVER: We've essentially learned that it takes two things to make a star magnetic. It needs to have these convective motions right underneath the surface: the bubbling of the gas; it needs to spin. And the faster it spins, the more active it becomes, and wherever those two things, the bubbling and the spinning, can interact, that's where we see the strongest magnetic activity in stars.
NARRATOR: Astronomers know that the surface of the sun spins in a strange way. Travel from the poles of the sun towards its equator and you'd notice it turns faster. Analyzing sound waves inside the sun reveals that the plasma layers beneath the surface also spin at different speeds. That's because they act like fluid, which gets denser towards the core. The interior of the sun is a place of spectacular turmoil, turmoil that's the key to the sun's magnetism.
TODD HOEKSEMA: The motions there, the convection, the differential rotation, the motion from equator to pole are driving a new force. They're driving a magnetic field. There's a dynamo at work here, a dynamo that's generating a force that we actually experience here on the earth.
NARRATOR: It works like a giant wind turbine: churning plasma in the convection zone stirs up powerful electrical currents, which generate a huge magnetic field.
NARRATOR: The Holy Grail for scientists is understanding exactly how this dynamo generates solar storms.




Man once oohed and aahed at the first simple dynamo and modern turbines are lauded as an example of Man's ingenuity and creativity. Compare that with the Earth, that is in reality, a magma fueled electric generator and the Sun which is a nuclear fusion fueled electric generator. Life wouldn't exist on Earth without either of those cosmic dynamos. I don't see it as blind chance.
 

JDM

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The universe is substantially huge. By tautology, we can only exist somewhere that is capable of supporting life, meaning if earth was not capable we would not be here to discuss it. We very well could be somewhere else where the circumstances did happen to work properly for life to exist.

You can't take something that is a basic requirement for life as we know it to spring up and use that as proof it was designed. We would only spring up in places we are capable of doing so, meaning we have a significant observational bias.
 

TKO

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The universe is substantially huge. By tautology, we can only exist somewhere that is capable of supporting life, meaning if earth was not capable we would not be here to discuss it. We very well could be somewhere else where the circumstances did happen to work properly for life to exist.

You can't take something that is a basic requirement for life as we know it to spring up and use that as proof it was designed. We would only spring up in places we are capable of doing so, meaning we have a significant observational bias.

I'll put you down in the blind chance column.
 

LucklessPadresFan

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Put me in the believer column. The complexity and beauty of life screams "divine creator".
 

briz almighty

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do you know how long a million years is? i been on this earth a few decades and most of you the same give or take a few, and in the grand scheme of things that is not even a nanosecond of time the earth been around. millions and billions of years! can you wrap your brain around how long that is? the amount of time for planets to have formed and life to arise is astronomical. you dont just snap your finger and make a planet or a lifeform. i have no problem at all believing these things developed naturally. MILLIONS OF YEARS.
 

briz almighty

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you give it enough time and chance happens.
 

briz almighty

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Radiometric dating techniques (and not just one) associated with investigation of materials originating on Earth and from space allow for the estimate of 4.567 billion years (4.567 × 109 years). A link can be found below which has more information on how the figure was arrived at. This estimate of the age of the Earth is broadly accepted by the vast majority of scientists and scientific organizations around the world.
 

briz almighty

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why did god wait 4.5 billion years to make humans? makes no sense.
 

WalkerBoh

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What you imply is a divine design isn't really all that uncommon. Earth and the Sun generate magnetic fields using natural dynamos, that's true. So do Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Mercury. Rock samples have also shown that Mars and our Moon used to have magnetic fields. The Earth's magnetic field is the result of a two-phase metal core. The outer core is fluid, while the inner core is solid. The mere fact that they exist in different phases of matter creats the differential rotation required to create a magnetic field. Any object that rotates and has multiple phases of matter in their interiors has the potential of creating a magnetic field. So, it's neither divine intervention nor blind chance. It's physics.

And, I suspect in the next 20 years we will find out that life isn't as uncommon as we currently think it is.
 

TKO

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Radiometric dating techniques (and not just one) associated with investigation of materials originating on Earth and from space allow for the estimate of 4.567 billion years (4.567 × 109 years). A link can be found below which has more information on how the figure was arrived at. This estimate of the age of the Earth is broadly accepted by the vast majority of scientists and scientific organizations around the world.


Time does nothing but move forward...it doesn't create life and neither does chance. You'll have to be more specific as to how it happened than that. One thing most people misunderstand is what the Bible states at Genesis 1:1: In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth. Based on that, the Earth could have sat there for billions of years before any life was created on it. People who read Genesis incorrectly make the mistake of thinking everything happened over the course of seven 24 hour days which is ludicrous IMO.
 

TKO

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why did god wait 4.5 billion years to make humans? makes no sense.

Time is relative to the observer briz. As an example...a year for Jupiter is 11.86 Earth years, a year for Neptune is 164.79 Earth years plus God is not subject to time like we are. The Bible states this symbolically at 2 Peter 3:8:

One day with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day


 

TKO

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What you imply is a divine design isn't really all that uncommon. Earth and the Sun generate magnetic fields using natural dynamos, that's true. So do Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Mercury. Rock samples have also shown that Mars and our Moon used to have magnetic fields. The Earth's magnetic field is the result of a two-phase metal core. The outer core is fluid, while the inner core is solid. The mere fact that they exist in different phases of matter creats the differential rotation required to create a magnetic field. Any object that rotates and has multiple phases of matter in their interiors has the potential of creating a magnetic field. So, it's neither divine intervention nor blind chance. It's physics.

And, I suspect in the next 20 years we will find out that life isn't as uncommon as we currently think it is.


They've been looking a lot longer than that for life and failed. Anyway, the fact that the Sun and Earth are dynamos is just one reason in a littany of others that allow for life to exist on this planet.
 

briz almighty

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Time is relative to the observer briz. As an example...a year for Jupiter is 11.86 Earth years, a year for Neptune is 164.79 Earth years plus God is not subject to time like we are. The Bible states this symbolically at 2 Peter 3:8:



One day with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day



all i know is a billion years is a fucking long time. it makes more sense to me that life arose naturally over a very long time than god waiting for and eternity to bring us into existence.
 

JDM

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What you imply is a divine design isn't really all that uncommon. Earth and the Sun generate magnetic fields using natural dynamos, that's true. So do Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Mercury. Rock samples have also shown that Mars and our Moon used to have magnetic fields. The Earth's magnetic field is the result of a two-phase metal core. The outer core is fluid, while the inner core is solid. The mere fact that they exist in different phases of matter creats the differential rotation required to create a magnetic field. Any object that rotates and has multiple phases of matter in their interiors has the potential of creating a magnetic field. So, it's neither divine intervention nor blind chance. It's physics.

And, I suspect in the next 20 years we will find out that life isn't as uncommon as we currently think it is.

I don't know if we do it in 20 years, but eventually, barring a catastrophe, we will need to expand. If we don't find it from earth maybe some people go to mars for some type of space mission and see something from there we couldn't see from earth. I think there is a reasonable chance there is life elsewhere but I have no idea what form it could take. It could be completely unlike us and shatter our conceptions of life.
 

Southieinnc

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all i know is a billion years is a fucking long time. it makes more sense to me that life arose naturally over a very long time than god waiting for and eternity to bring us into existence.

Briz, I won't ask you to believe what you do not. We will believe what we choose to believe. I believe in God. I believe that he creates in his good time and is not bound by time like you and I. I don't have all the answers but when I look into the eyes of my grandchildren, I cannot imagine that once upon a time there was no life and then there was. I have no problem believing in evolution - just not the way you believe.
Thank God for his patience.
 

JDM

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Briz, I won't ask you to believe what you do not. We will believe what we choose to believe. I believe in God. I believe that he creates in his good time and is not bound by time like you and I. I don't have all the answers but when I look into the eyes of my grandchildren, I cannot imagine that once upon a time there was no life and then there was. I have no problem believing in evolution - just not the way you believe.
Thank God for his patience.

Wait, what? Not trying to attack, but isn't that the same as the bible's version?
 
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