OT: NBA Finals

[MHSL82]

I know that the NBA is dead to some of you, but for those of you still interested, what do you think about the OKC-Miami Finals? Who do you think is going to win, why, and what does/will it say about the stars, the teams, or the fans if so-and-so wins/loses? I meant to start this thread before the first game, but since I suppose no one would have predicted a sweep by either side, I think Game 1 wasn't a spoiler since the home team won. What say you?

 

[Bemular]

I know that the NBA is dead to some of you, but for those of you still interested, what do you think about the OKC-Miami Finals? Who do you think is going to win, why, and what does/will it say about the stars, the teams, or the fans if so-and-so wins/loses? I meant to start this thread before the first game, but since I suppose no one would have predicted a sweep by either side, I think Game 1 wasn't a spoiler since the home team won. What say you?

The same is true for basketball as it is for every other sport - Physical talent and skill, by the time you get to the finals, have all been equalized; it is the intangibles that win championships.

What it will say about the "stars" is that one set of stars wanted it a little more than the other set of stars. As for who I think will win - I think OKC will win because of what I said in the first paragraph.

 

[clyde_carbon]

OKC is taking it in 6.

 

[Kinzu]

Well at least Lebron proved himself a superstar tonight. Only a superstar could get away with not 1 but 2 defensive fouls in the last 10 seconds to save his team the game. He got away with a reaching foul on Durant, then he whacked Durant on the leg during the tying shot, and then he just ripped way Westbrook's arm on the attempted put back. They Heat are a very lucky team right now to have won game 2.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

OKC could be in trouble after dropping last nights game. The finals format(2-3-2) is kinda dumb. Gives the Heat a pretty big advantage.

I'm really rooting for the Thunder in this one so hopefully they respond strong. I cant stand the heat. I get how some can root for them.

 

[CalamityX11]

OKC for me.... whether I want LBJ & Wade to lose or not, I luv how OKC is and want them to win it all.

F LBJ saying afterwards that he forced Durant into a tough shot at the end. Fucker fouled his ass 3-4x and lucked out the ref didn't see sh*t.

 

[abaskin18]

If all the fouls were called last night Durant would have been on the bench in the final few minutes. So I'm not going to get too bent out of shape over the no-call (which was indeed a foul, imo) at the end.

KD had himself a hell of 2nd half and LBJ's shot off the glass overshadowed a pair of terrible "dribble the clock out before taking a low percentage 3" plays from the Kobe playbook down the stretch.

So far we're 2 for 2 in terms of entertaining games and the series is tied. Not much more I can ask for as a hoop fan.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Exactly....there are so many uncalled fouls, and there is some level of skill in getting away with it. Really it was a smart hack by Lebron.....who is looking at the legs on that shot.

I'm a big Lebron fan, so screw all you guys! I think the criticism he gets is so goofy, he's not just the best player, but one of the smartest, one of the most entertaining, one of the best team player superstars ever. And past that, he seems like a much better person than 95% of the guys involved in the NBA.

 

[abaskin18]

Exactly....there are so many uncalled fouls, and there is some level of skill in getting away with it. Really it was a smart hack by Lebron.....who is looking at the legs on that shot.

I'm a big Lebron fan, so screw all you guys! I think the criticism he gets is so goofy, he's not just the best player, but one of the smartest, one of the most entertaining, one of the best team player superstars ever. And past that, he seems like a much better person than 95% of the guys involved in the NBA.

Ha. Let's not go THAT far. There's just a lot more to enjoy and focus on than a ref putting his whistle away on late possessions in a finals game.

 

[Kinzu]

Lebron is Scottie Pippen 2.0
He is a big bodied player that can do it, but will never be able to carry a whole team to a championship. Scottie needed Jordan to win titles. Lebron needs one of Wade or Bosh to show up every game.

It's not really a knock on Lebron it's just the truth. He is the best all-around player in the league much like Scottie was on those Bulls teams, but he should not be the go to player on the team.

Look at the years that Jordan did not play between the Bulls title runs. The Bulls led by Scottie were still good enough to win 55 games and advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs losing in 7. The next year they lost a lot of players from the championship teams and Jordan came back half way through the season. They went in as a 5th seed and lost in round 2 again.

If you have trouble believing this look at Scottie's NBA Finals averages compared to Lebron's. They both average around 20 ppg, 8 rebounds, and 7 assist. Lebron's ppg has probably gone up now thanks to the past 2 games though.

I guess I do need to point out though that I'm not saying Lebron is no better than Pippen. I'm saying he is a player in the same mold as Pippen only better. If Lebron was on that 95-96 Bulls team instead of Pippen they not have lost 10 games and gone undefeated, but Jordan still would have been the go to player on the team.

 

[NinerSickness]

Lebron is Scottie Pippen 2.0
He is a big bodied player that can do it, but will never be able to carry a whole team to a championship. Scottie needed Jordan to win titles. Lebron needs one of Wade or Bosh to show up every game.

It's not really a knock on Lebron it's just the truth. He is the best all-around player in the league much like Scottie was on those Bulls teams, but he should not be the go to player on the team.

So please don't take this personally, but this is one of the worst basketball anlyses I've ever heard. Every syllable of it is wrong, and I'm 100% objective because I don't even like basketball. It's interesting to follow in the playoffs, but I'm not a fan of the sport or any one team.

1. Needs another guy to show up "every game?" Like he needed 'em to show up game 6 against Boston?
2. Scottie Pippen was the best all-around player on the Bulls? That's crazy talk. Jordan won defensive player of the year at one point.

Look at the years that Jordan did not play between the Bulls title runs. The Bulls led by Scottie were still good enough to win 55 games and advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs losing in 7.

Exactly. So, as great as Jordan was, he needed a great team around him to win all those titles as well. It's called a team. One superstar is not enough to win a title, much less multiple titles (see Lebron in Cleveland).

I guess I do need to point out though that I'm not saying Lebron is no better than Pippen. I'm saying he is a player in the same mold as Pippen only better.

I would argue only a LOT better. A lot, lot better. Pippen was great. Rodman was great. The Bulls' bench was great. Jordan was the greatest (so far); but Lebron is well on track to be one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

Rarely do I see a player hated as much as Lebron is hates for such silly and inconsistent reasons. It's a huge double standard with him; and like I said, I'm not even a basketball fan.

 

[Kinzu]

"The irony to me is that LeBron is not Michael. LeBron is actually Scottie," former Bull and current television analyst Steve Kerr said. "Phil Jackson used to call Scottie a 'sometimes shooter.' Sometimes they would go in, sometimes they wouldn't. That's how it is with LeBron. He's a great talent and a great player but you can see his flaws as a basketball player. He doesn't have an offensive game that he can rely on: no low-post game, no mid-range jump shot so when the game really gets tough he has a hard time finding easy baskets and getting himself going. That's what Michael did in his sleep so that's why the comparison is wrong."

Lebron compares to Pippen because
Both excel at playing the Point Forward position
Both are excellent defenders on any position on the court
Both are streaky jump shooters
Both really need an offensive playmaker to compliment their talents

Lebron is bigger and stronger though, and he uses that to his advantage to do things Pippen could not do. This allows Lebron to be better at attacking and finishing around the rim. I would say Pippen was a some what better spot shooter, but not by much.

Steve Kerr is right though. Lebron is not that great at making his own offense especially if his jump shot is off for the night. Lebron's offensive game is to use his size and strength to attack the basket. If teams can take that away or make it difficult for him he is not a huge offensive threat unless he starts making his jump shots. Lebron would really be doing himself a huge favor to learn the post game and try to become the best at it. He could use that size and strength down their to his advantage when teams put smaller defenders on him. It will also be a great asset later in his career when he starts to slow down.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I don't think its an absurd comparison, but like you say Lebron is probably better in every single aspect of the game....and once you start listing all the things Lebron does "slightly better" does the comparison become a stretch?

I mean, he's a better scorer, passer, playmaker, big man, and athlete. Pippen maybe had him purely on defensive technique and effort, but saying Pippen 2.0 might simply diminish what Lebron is doing as one of the all-time great players.

The next point would have to mention that as a sidekick Pippen benefitted, and thrived, from all the attention that was paid to Jordan on the court. Pippen probably got more open shots than anyone in the history of the NBA, and he did have a good run early in his career of high percentages. On the other hand, Lebron is the one getting the bulk of defensive attention in his teams, letting his teammates be the Pippen. And still Lebron is a consistently higher % shooter - to the point that he has been over 50% for 3 straight years and was able to get to 53% this year by cutting down his 3s. Its just not even the same category as far as this goes, Lebron is a much, much better scorer.

So I see the point, but I think Lebron is too much better in too many different ways to make the comparison very good.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

As far as "will never be able to carry a team"......like sickness said no player has ever carried a team single-handedly. Jordan had a hall-of-fame coach and teammate, and some of the best role players ever around him. Bird had Hall-of-Fame teammates. I think sometimes its a misnomer that basketball is a one-man sport...just ask Barkley. He was perhaps the most dominant player in early 90s, but without a great team around him couldn't get it done. His contemporary Olajuwon had better teammates and was able to go all the way. Media tries to make it a one-man game but it never has been.

 

[abaskin18]

:focus:

I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's game. If they split games 3 & 4, I think we're looking at 7 for sure. If one team can take them both it's game over, imo.

 

[Kinzu]

Yeah I was thinking Thunder in 6, but now this looks like a 7 game series. I expect the Thunder to take 1 of 3 from Miami. That sets up a 3-2 series in Miami's favor going back to OKC for the final 2 games. I think the Thunder then take game 6 and anything can happen in game 7. If the Thunder take 2 of 3 in Miami though the series is over.

 

[SJ20]

ANYBODY but Miami!

 

[NinerSickness]

ANYBODY but Miami!

So OKC?

Now that Bosh is geting closer to 100% I don't see OKC being able to win 2 of 3 in Miami; so I think it goes back to OKC either with Miami up 3-2 or up 4-1. If Miami is up 4-1 after game 5, I all but guarantee they win the series.

 

[drekeeper]

I think a Scottie Pippen comparison is way off, Lebron is more in the mold of Magic Johnson if anyone. To say Lebron "needs" a compliment of talented players is an off assessment as well. When Lebron was in Cleveland posting 60+ wins, he did not have a roster overloaded with all-star talent. In the end, when Lebron decides to get aggressive and take over a game, we witness events such as game 6 in boston. I personally believe the only thing Lebron's game lacks at the finals level is belief. Once Lebron understands how great his talent really is, it's over. No one in the NBA can match up with this guy from a physical perspective, its all mental. The moment he wins an NBA finals ring and MVP he's going to be hard to contain. As a bulls fan I sincerely hope for a fully recovered Derrick Rose because if the Heat and Lebron win this year a dynasty may very well be born

 

[drekeeper]

OKC in 6