OT: Explosion at Fertilizer plant in Waco Texas (unknown cause - probably accident)

[Darkstone42]

how about the city planners of this town ...

behind the factory ... elementary and high schools
across the other road ... dense residential area


Costanza could have done better

Whose idea was that? Factories filled with acids and nitrates should be in isolated areas, so that if something goes wrong (like a fire, which will inevitably lead to an explosion), the casualties are as limited as possible.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Whose idea was that? Factories filled with acids and nitrates should be in isolated areas, so that if something goes wrong (like a fire, which will inevitably lead to an explosion), the casualties are as limited as possible.

and a hospital is closeby too

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=west...8&t=h&dirflg=w&hq=west,+texas+fertilizer&z=17

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

and a hospital is closeby too

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=west...8&t=h&dirflg=w&hq=west,+texas+fertilizer&z=17

That's lucky for the people hurt in the explosion.

:rollseyes:

 

[forty_three]

Whose idea was that? Factories filled with acids and nitrates should be in isolated areas, so that if something goes wrong (like a fire, which will inevitably lead to an explosion), the casualties are as limited as possible.

I just read that the safety audit the plant did most recently (2006) covered a "10 minute release of Ammonia" and a "Transfer hose coming loose" as their "worst case scenario".

Fire in and around holding tank causing catastrophic explosion was deemed "impossible" and not included in the safety and response plans.




Bad day to be the guy whose signature is on the bottom of THAT paper.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I just read that the safety audit the plant did most recently (2006) covered a "10 minute release of Ammonia" and a "Transfer hose coming loose" as their "worst case scenario".

Fire in and around holding tank causing catastrophic explosion was deemed "impossible" and not included in the safety and response plans.




Bad day to be the guy whose signature is on the bottom of THAT paper.

they also had a fire scare there 2 months ago ... it really sounds like Homer Simpson is running the show there


WEST, Texas - A school near the Texas fertilizer plant that was leveled by an explosion says it wasn't warned about a controlled fire at the plant in February and evacuated its students to another school as a precaution.

Superintendent Marty Crawford notified West Intermediate School parents and staff in a Feb. 12 letter that the evacuation earlier that day was orderly. The letter is posted on the district's website.

He says the West Fertilizer plant didn't inform school officials that it planned to burn unwanted pallets and brush, and that officials were alarmed by the fire.

Crawford says the principal called 911 and that the dispatcher didn't acknowledge any coordinated burn. He says the district asked to be notified by local emergency personnel and the plant before any future planned burns.




the bolded part kills me

 

[forty_three]

they also had a fire scare there 2 months ago ... it really sounds like Homer Simpson is running the show there


WEST, Texas - A school near the Texas fertilizer plant that was leveled by an explosion says it wasn't warned about a controlled fire at the plant in February and evacuated its students to another school as a precaution.

Superintendent Marty Crawford notified West Intermediate School parents and staff in a Feb. 12 letter that the evacuation earlier that day was orderly. The letter is posted on the district's website.

He says the West Fertilizer plant didn't inform school officials that it planned to burn unwanted pallets and brush, and that officials were alarmed by the fire.

Crawford says the principal called 911 and that the dispatcher didn't acknowledge any coordinated burn. He says the district asked to be notified by local emergency personnel and the plant before any future planned burns.




the bolded part kills me

 

[Slimpikins]

Whose idea was that? Factories filled with acids and nitrates should be in isolated areas, so that if something goes wrong (like a fire, which will inevitably lead to an explosion), the casualties are as limited as possible.

Which one went in first, the plant or the residential?

The town I used to live in had a propane/gas depot off of the rail line and a tanker caught fire there last year. They evacuated several thousand people and if it blew it would have been a national story.

Sometimes cities and developers decide to build around dangerous things, not the other way around. (cheap real estate).

 

[Darkstone42]

Which one went in first, the plant or the residential?

The town I used to live in had a propane/gas depot off of the rail line and a tanker caught fire there last year. They evacuated several thousand people and if it blew it would have been a national story.

Sometimes cities and developers decide to build around dangerous things, not the other way around. (cheap real estate).

Regardless, it was incredibly stupid. You don't put a dangerous plant in a residential area, and you don't build a residential area around a dangerous plant.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Which one went in first, the plant or the residential?

The town I used to live in had a propane/gas depot off of the rail line and a tanker caught fire there last year. They evacuated several thousand people and if it blew it would have been a national story.

Sometimes cities and developers decide to build around dangerous things, not the other way around. (cheap real estate) .

thats the sign of a corrupt small town city council imo ... what about zoning bylaws?

 

[forty_three]

Which one went in first, the plant or the residential?

The town I used to live in had a propane/gas depot off of the rail line and a tanker caught fire there last year. They evacuated several thousand people and if it blew it would have been a national story.

Sometimes cities and developers decide to build around dangerous things, not the other way around. (cheap real estate).

Nationwide Insurance Headquarters downtown Columbus is built over a railroad that carries hazardous chemicals all the time. The main building is build above a tunnel that oil tankers and cars with various chemicals pass under every day. Like 10,000 people work there. Nationwide Arena is right next to it.

Not sure who is underwriting that...

And in this case, the tracks were there first.

 

[Darkstone42]

I just read that the safety audit the plant did most recently (2006) covered a "10 minute release of Ammonia" and a "Transfer hose coming loose" as their "worst case scenario".

Fire in and around holding tank causing catastrophic explosion was deemed "impossible" and not included in the safety and response plans.




Bad day to be the guy whose signature is on the bottom of THAT paper.

2006 was the most recent safety audit? My little lab gets four a year!

 

[Slimpikins]

Regardless, it was incredibly stupid. You don't put a dangerous plant in a residential area, and you don't build a residential area around a dangerous plant.

thats the sign of a corrupt small town city council imo ... what about zoning bylaws?

The revenue that development and building permits bring in to the city, county, and school districts is substantial so they can get around logic/zoning laws, besides they same guys approving the development are often the guys that can amend zoning restrictions.

And it really comes down to the public, they want the cheaper property in that location and they will petition to get the developments going. They will even sign just about whatever you put in front of them acknowledging the risk and releasing liability when purchasing the house.

Each party has self centered reasons that allow these things to happen. I agree it is short sighted, although not really surprising in today's society.

 

[dare2be]

Each party has self centered reasons that allow these things to happen. I agree it is short sighted, although not really surprising in today's society.

That boils down my thoughts as well. Tying in the comment in the Boston Marathon thread that 98% of people are inherently good, I agree with that, but that good easily gets trumped by the inherent apathy, selfishness, and short-sightedness we have in our society.

For the inherent good of humanity to rise above the other qualities, it takes a major catastrophic event or natural disaster to wake us up.

 

[forty_three]

The revenue that development and building permits bring in to the city, county, and school districts is substantial so they can get around logic/zoning laws, besides they same guys approving the development are often the guys that can amend zoning restrictions.

And it really comes down to the public, they want the cheaper property in that location and they will petition to get the developments going. They will even sign just about whatever you put in front of them acknowledging the risk and releasing liability when purchasing the house.

Each party has self centered reasons that allow these things to happen. I agree it is short sighted, although not really surprising in today's society.

Where I grew up, I could see the stacks from the place on the Edgewood Arsenal that that manufactured Mustard Gas and other chemical weapons.

And could hear the booms from where they tested things. Although not necessarily chemical weapons. I don't think.

Far as I know it is still operational.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

The revenue that development and building permits bring in to the city, county, and school districts is substantial so they can get around logic/zoning laws, besides they same guys approving the development are often the guys that can amend zoning restrictions.

And it really comes down to the public, they want the cheaper property in that location and they will petition to get the developments going. They will even sign just about whatever you put in front of them acknowledging the risk and releasing liability when purchasing the house.

Each party has self centered reasons that allow these things to happen. I agree it is short sighted, although not really surprising in today's society.

sorry if Im going sideways but i think its very jurisdictional specific (these days ... at least from my perspective in vancouver) ... i think stuff like this happens in small economically needy towns starving for business investment/jobs for citizens (and yes the corresponding municipal taxation that comes with it) but you just cant easily get re-zoning approval in larger cities ... especially ones that have alot of bureaucracy

my wife works in Burnaby,BC for a business that is classified for municipal zoning purposes as heavy industrial and they were looking to build a new facility ... their expansion/capital investment is being stalled by zoning restrictions ... municipalities (at least here, where we eat granola at each meal) dont want "dirty" or "dangerous" businesses that they think are not part of the "green economy" even if you have the environmental safeguards in place that go beyond federal legislation

and going back to your point about municipal revenues ... its another jurisdictional difference thing up here ... development and building permits dont drive revenues/budgets in large established municipalities ... property taxes do ... especially corporate property taxes

maybe its a communist canada thing???

 

[mooger_35]

2006 was the most recent safety audit? My little lab gets four a year!

 

[mattola]

Some 35 people -- including 10 first responders -- died in an massive explosion Wednesday night at a fertilizer plant in West, Texas, Mayor Tommy Muska said, according to USA Today.

 

[thedddd]

I think within 2000 feet of that plant was a High School, Middle School and Hospital along with the nursing home. I am surprised the town didn't have some sort of evacuation plan or the plant had any alarms. I haven't read or heard anything about that?

I know at our old house in Evans City PA and we used to get the evacuation/alarm notice and plan in the mail every 6 months from MSA (was Mine Safety when we lived there) in case they had a chemical spill or accident. Nothing ever happened but and honestly you never thought anything of it. But after this you think back and wonder what if...

Also growing up my elementary school was in a cool mining town and right across from the school playground was a smoke stack from the coal mine that was underneath us. Once again you never thought anything of it.

Take too much for granted.

Anyway it is sad on what happened and just like Boston you hope and pray for all the folks and just glad this didn't happen while school was in.

 

[BF4L]

My lord this is terrible. Praying for all in TX.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Christ now we have a shooting at MIT??? WTF.