ok so we dont have a franchise qb , now what ?

[skinsdad62]

seeing that some people think RG3 is NOT a franchise qb and is unsalvageable now what ?

Do we use RG3 as a stop gap qb and build the LOS on both sides of the ball up ? Do we invest in some wrs and DBs ?

do we make a trade up to get bridgewater and use some more draft picks in that endeavor ? we have cap space and jay cutler is a FA

do we anoint KC as the franchise guy and build around him ?

this is what a new regime will be faced with

can RG3 be our new bus driver QB and if we put some weapons around him can we win ugly with him. ?

do we simply cut RG3 outright and start over ? if he isnt the answer then why keep him ? if i am a new coach why do i want this dumb , primadonna entitled qb who will be nothing more then an injury prone mike vick lite ? he is on his rookie contract so the cap hit is nothing

perhaps we could shop him much like KC . he should garner at least a 1st rounder and some other picks

he wont be the coaches choice so why not get a new face for this team ?

in my opinion i think you need to build up both sides of the LOS no matter what system of defense you use

then you decide what you need next . i would give KC the 1st shot at being the new franchise qb or at worst he can be the new bus driver tackling dummy until we get the new face

next i would go after some new targets for my new face/game manager

after that i would address the kicking game and defensive secondary

i believe we are 2-3 years of drafting and signing of young free agents (under 28 ) away from being a team that can compete for playoff spots .

so since the shanahan regime was a complete bust this is how i can see us moving forward with the premise being that RG3 is a bust

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I'm not in the camp that has given up on Griff yet.

 

[j_y19]

I'm not ready to make that determination. We do have a franchise QB, it's RG3. It just that he is more of a project than any of us (except shark) knew. I still believe his upside is much higher than Kirk.

 

[elocomotive]

seeing that some people think RG3 is NOT a franchise qb and is unsalvageable now what ?

I'll go further than those above in saying that making that determination in a year when the guy played hurt half the season and in a brace all year is ridiculous.

RG3 has the goods. He needs health, time, and tools around him.

 

[skinsdad62]

I'll go further than those above in saying that making that determination in a year when the guy played hurt half the season and in a brace all year is ridiculous.

RG3 has the goods. He needs health, time, and tools around him.

hey play devils advocate with me and tell me what you do ?

 

[Sharkinva]

If I didnt know you were being sarcastic I would applaude.

But fact is we dont yet have a franchise QB. We have RG3 who every one wants to proclaim the next great coming. But no you dont abandon him because he is cheap (cap wise) and we already took it up the rear to get him to begin with. You build the line and the rest of the team, but you also dont hand him the job at this point because his play this year has not waranted being unchallenged starter. See if he can I dont know, learn to read defenses and go through his progressions over the offseason. But if we are still asking these questions at the end of 2015, you seriously consider that it was a mistake and move along.

But I agree we dont have a franchise QB. He hasnt shown enough in the intangibles aside from his legs that he is becoming a franchise QB. But since he is already paid for, you ride him out the next two years and then decide. But I think it would be a compounded mistake to not even consider a backup plan since we are rebuilding any way.

 

[gkekoa]

I haven't given up on RG3 and I'm one of his biggest critics. That's something people need to understand...just because you see flaws doesn't mean you can't see the good.


RG3 is the most talented of the young QBs.
He's more athletic and more accurate than Luck.
He's equally athletic, equally accurate (based off last season), and bigger than Wilson.
He's smarter and more accurate than Kaepernick.


The things that will make or break RG3 follow:
1) Will he learn to study film and the playbook even if it's not fun?
2) Can he get over the mental block of the knee injury? Most that have suffered this injury says that takes two years.

 

[skinsdad62]

If I didnt know you were being sarcastic I would applaude.

But fact is we dont yet have a franchise QB. We have RG3 who every one wants to proclaim the next great coming. But no you dont abandon him because he is cheap (cap wise) and we already took it up the rear to get him to begin with. You build the line and the rest of the team, but you also dont hand him the job at this point because his play this year has not waranted being unchallenged starter. See if he can I dont know, learn to read defenses and go through his progressions over the offseason. But if we are still asking these questions at the end of 2015, you seriously consider that it was a mistake and move along.

But I agree we dont have a franchise QB. He hasnt shown enough in the intangibles aside from his legs that he is becoming a franchise QB. But since he is already paid for, you ride him out the next two years and then decide. But I think it would be a compounded mistake to not even consider a backup plan since we are rebuilding any way.

so can we win without a franchise qb ? and if he isnt then why waste anymore time on him ? his trade value will never be higher and having him lose a qb battle to KC would only damage it further and pro long an already long process of trying to recover from this mistake

if he isnt "the guy" i say cut bait and move on. he doesnt have the intangibles to be a franchise guy . lets invest in some players who can help us in areas of need

i bet we could get a 1st and second rounder for him and possibly a mid rounder to boot

what do you think shark ? lets get rid of the mike vick lite bus driver while we can . he is an over rated mike vick lite . cash in now before its too late

because in 2 years when he fails i will ask you why you stuck with this bust when i suggested we should have traded him while we could

we made this mistake with betts and we did it with cooley lets not make it 3

 

[j_y19]

Playind devils advocate? In that case, if you don't think RG3 is going to be your guy, you trade him this offseason. Someone will bite heavily. Bet we could get 2 #1s. I'm not sold on bridgewater. I put Kirk in there and see how he does next year.

 

[gkekoa]

I agree Jay. If you don't think RG3 is the man...trade him. Do not go after Bridgewater...not impressed.

 

[skinsdad62]

I agree Jay. If you don't think RG3 is the man...trade him. Do not go after Bridgewater...not impressed.

tahj boyd could drop right to us in round 2 . he will be measured at about 6' . and his stock could go down a little . we currently have the 2nd pick of the round

he is more of a pocket , pro style qb then the option primadonna we traded up for

 

[Sharkinva]

so can we win without a franchise qb ? and if he isnt then why waste anymore time on him ? his trade value will never be higher and having him lose a qb battle to KC would only damage it further and pro long an already long process of trying to recover from this mistake

if he isnt "the guy" i say cut bait and move on. he doesnt have the intangibles to be a franchise guy . lets invest in some players who can help us in areas of need

i bet we could get a 1st and second rounder for him and possibly a mid rounder to boot

what do you think shark ? lets get rid of the mike vick lite bus driver while we can . he is an over rated mike vick lite . cash in now before its too late

because in 2 years when he fails i will ask you why you stuck with this bust when i suggested we should have traded him while we could

we made this mistake with betts and we did it with cooley lets not make it 3

Dude, you are trying to preach to the Choir here. I think the trade was a mistake and have serious doubts he will ever be more than an option QB. However, at this rate you dont trade him because simply put, he is cheap capwise and in this case (unlike holding onto campbell) you dont damage the team any worse by holding onto him. Now if we could recoup two of those first rounders, I would move him in a heart beat. But we wont. So getting a mid first rounder only to have to use it on another Qb is pointless. You keep him and ride out the rookie contract, hoping he becomes even remotely worth what we gave up for him. But you also start to build a team that isnt so dependent on his unique skills (aka running QB). We are in far enough that you deal with the mistake by not making another snap decision. In three years if he sucks, you take your lumps and move on. But I seriously wouldnt want to invest yet MORE into the QB position at this point because at that point its like throwing more good draft picks at the position in hopes that something sticks. But if we are still heavy on the read option in two years, I think that will be definitive proof that he wont be a franchise QB.

 

[skinsdad62]

Dude, you are trying to preach to the Choir here. I think the trade was a mistake and have serious doubts he will ever be more than an option QB. However, at this rate you dont trade him because simply put, he is cheap capwise and in this case (unlike holding onto campbell) you dont damage the team any worse by holding onto him. Now if we could recoup two of those first rounders, I would move him in a heart beat. But we wont. So getting a mid first rounder only to have to use it on another Qb is pointless. You keep him and ride out the rookie contract, hoping he becomes even remotely worth what we gave up for him. But you also start to build a team that isnt so dependent on his unique skills (aka running QB). We are in far enough that you deal with the mistake by not making another snap decision. In three years if he sucks, you take your lumps and move on. But I seriously wouldnt want to invest yet MORE into the QB position at this point because at that point its like throwing more good draft picks at the position in hopes that something sticks. But if we are still heavy on the read option in two years, I think that will be definitive proof that he wont be a franchise QB.

i disagree . why keep him when you can recoup the draft picks (or some of them ) and watch the team fall to pieces because he cant read defenses and never will . he is always in the owners office and he will never be anything more then an option qb

might as well get something for him now and get some of what you lost back . any new drafted qb will be cheap vs the cap we have KC and rex as the back up . we could use our 2nd rounder ona new qb to back up or replace KC and it wont cost us but what we already have

if he cant cut it in year 3 , which we all know he cant , then why wait ? trade him , use the picks on the o/line

 

[Sportster 72]

Cooley tore Griffin a new rear today.

In an effort to simplify things for him Kyle has him reading one half of the field with two routes and a check down. KC correctly scouted this and defenders just watched to see which way Griffin looked then ALL defenders ran in that direction. Cousins saw the field better in his short stint.

KC ran a zone blitz 5 times against Griffin which was only blocked correctly one time. They ran it once against Cousins and it was blocked correctly. Either Montgomery or Griffin called the protections wrong.

Griffin continues to show poor to know pocket presence. Footwork is terrible causing poor accuracy.

Against KC Griffin took a look at his No. 1 read then turned and focused on the line to see if they were blocking.

Cooley feels Griffin is regressing. His first year came everything came so easily. His first read was often wide open. Big year for ALF. Actually Cousins won two of the games last year. Skins were down against the Ravens and Cousins and Crawford brought them back and Cousins led the team to win against the Browns.

Like shark I was 100% against the trade up for Griffin. The guy we are seeing now is what I was afraid we would be getting, an option QB that could run but was fair at best as a QB. He had all of us fooled last year. shark and I both became believers and heralded the guy.

What do we have, it's hard to tell. The injury set his progression back. He showed us all that he has skills last year. Now the question is can he develop into a pocket QB. My gut is no and the reason I say that is he has survived on his supreme athletic abillty so far but there is more to that in the NFL. Just look at Peyton, Brady, Marino and many more. Look at guys like Cunningham, Vick, McNabb etc. They had periods where they were good but never elite. Only time will tell but it's not something that can be answered this year.

 

[Sharkinva]

i disagree . why keep him when you can recoup the draft picks (or some of them ) and watch the team fall to pieces because he cant read defenses and never will . he is always in the owners office and he will never be anything more then an option qb

might as well get something for him now and get some of what you lost back . any new drafted qb will be cheap vs the cap we have KC and rex as the back up . we could use our 2nd rounder ona new qb to back up or replace KC and it wont cost us but what we already have

if he cant cut it in year 3 , which we all know he cant , then why wait ? trade him , use the picks on the o/line

See I know the real problem here. Because Im not all in you want to make it seem as if I am proclaiming he has no chance to be of use. You dont compound one mistake with a snap decision. I dont think he is a franchise QB, I do think he is better than and should become better than Jason Campbell. You dont trade him now because as i said, you would then make it a total waste because we would then have NO QB. I have stated why I expect the trade to be a failure. I have stated why I think the odds are against him being an elite level franchise QB. But that doesnt mean you chuck him for what ever you can get and set the team back even further.

 

[skinsdad62]

See I know the real problem here. Because Im not all in you want to make it seem as if I am proclaiming he has no chance to be of use. You dont compound one mistake with a snap decision. I dont think he is a franchise QB, I do think he is better than and should become better than Jason Campbell. You dont trade him now because as i said, you would then make it a total waste because we would then have NO QB. I have stated why I expect the trade to be a failure. I have stated why I think the odds are against him being an elite level franchise QB. But that doesnt mean you chuck him for what ever you can get and set the team back even further.

you are totally wrong shark . you have convinced me that RG3 is a bus driver option qb who cant be salvaged by this team so i believe its time to cut bait

you cant win a superbowl with a bus driver and we need resources to fix the numerous holes on this team

tomorrow i will come up with a new offseason plan

 

[Sharkinva]

you are totally wrong shark . you have convinced me that RG3 is a bus driver option qb who cant be salvaged by this team so i believe its time to cut bait

you cant win a superbowl with a bus driver and we need resources to fix the numerous holes on this team

tomorrow i will come up with a new offseason plan

Dude... I didnt say he had to be a bus driver. Why does it always have to be an either or with you?? He could turn into a very good QB and the trade still be an ultimate failure simply based on the fact that you give that kind of coin up for an ELITE player. Right now he is NOT an elite player. There are valid reasons why right now he looks like he wont be a franchise player. But again you dont throw the baby out with the bath water. I agree that you cant give up on him yet, but I dont agree that you go into it blindly with an all or nothing approach. the first step in fixing a mistake is realizing you made one.The second step isnt making another rash decision. And as much as Im not sold that you can just say well he is a franchise QB, I dont think he is garbage either. Some where between the stick with him too long ( See Vick Michael) and the take your lumps and Jettison him now (See Russell, Jamarcus) lies the correct middle ground. Give him a line over the next two years, see if he can learn to read defenses. If in two years he is at the same place... well you take your lumps.

 

[j_y19]

Dude... I didnt say he had to be a bus driver. Why does it always have to be an either or with you?? He could turn into a very good QB and the trade still be an ultimate failure simply based on the fact that you give that kind of coin up for an ELITE player. Right now he is NOT an elite player. There are valid reasons why right now he looks like he wont be a franchise player. But again you dont throw the baby out with the bath water. I agree that you cant give up on him yet, but I dont agree that you go into it blindly with an all or nothing approach. the first step in fixing a mistake is realizing you made one.The second step isnt making another rash decision. And as much as Im not sold that you can just say well he is a franchise QB, I dont think he is garbage either. Some where between the stick with him too long ( See Vick Michael) and the take your lumps and Jettison him now (See Russell, Jamarcus) lies the correct middle ground. Give him a line over the next two years, see if he can learn to read defenses. If in two years he is at the same place... well you take your lumps.

Interesting......I don't think we are as far apart as I originally thought we were on this subject.

 

[skinsdad62]

Dude... I didnt say he had to be a bus driver. Why does it always have to be an either or with you?? He could turn into a very good QB and the trade still be an ultimate failure simply based on the fact that you give that kind of coin up for an ELITE player. Right now he is NOT an elite player. There are valid reasons why right now he looks like he wont be a franchise player. But again you dont throw the baby out with the bath water. I agree that you cant give up on him yet, but I dont agree that you go into it blindly with an all or nothing approach. the first step in fixing a mistake is realizing you made one.The second step isnt making another rash decision. And as much as Im not sold that you can just say well he is a franchise QB, I dont think he is garbage either. Some where between the stick with him too long ( See Vick Michael) and the take your lumps and Jettison him now (See Russell, Jamarcus) lies the correct middle ground. Give him a line over the next two years, see if he can learn to read defenses. If in two years he is at the same place... well you take your lumps.

you cant win with a very good bus driver , the qb needs to make people around him better . very good qbs dont win superbowls, elite ones do

if he can never be elite because he is a whining primadonna , an option qb and a guy who lives in the owners office undermining the coaches then why keep him ?

do we need a very good option qb who is mike vick lite ?

are we tired of losing . we dont have time to see if RG3 can be "very good " might as well get what we can while we can recoup some of our losses and try again to build this franchise

if the trade was a mistake then why hold on to the lemon ?

 

[gkekoa]

Some people let emotion get in the way of their brain, DAD, and he puts words in other people's mouths.