Off Season 2

[NWPATSFAN]

T'eo and Minter are 2 decent choices. They are no Hightower but decent.

And to me a price for a player is always fluctuating. Let's say BB doesn't see a decent replacement in either the draft or FA well maybe you are willing to up that amount or willing to go ahead and take the Tag price for a year knowing you have the cap space and just see what is available the next season.

Right now Hightower is making the smart decision. He can play a bit of the waiting game and get the tag or see if NE is willing to come up on their price. I mean I'm guessing that offer will still be available say FA is a day or 2 a way and Hightower would rather still stay in NE. I know NE doesn't usually play games like that a whole lot but Hightower is one of the few worth continuing talks with

Right on. Now we're singing from the same page. Just took a while to get there

 

[BigKen]

What I've heard from "people in the know", are saying is that BB may come up to 5 years $12M per or $60M total with $25M guaranteed for HT may even be a $15M signing bonus as part of that. That would actually be another $10M guaranteed and the contract at approx. $7M a year. Otherwise it's.......... thanks, but....................

Haven't heard anything about Bennett, Butler or Ryan.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

If someone wants to give NE a 1st rd pick for Butler and pay him that much, cool with me. NE could potential be walking into the 1st rd with 3 picks?? That's crazy. It's one thing to want to pay Butler that money, but also willing to give up a 1st and potential stud for 5 yrs at cheap money....Just what BB likes..

 

[CreepCreep2014]

T'eo and Minter are 2 decent choices. They are no Hightower but decent.

And to me a price for a player is always fluctuating. Let's say BB doesn't see a decent replacement in either the draft or FA well maybe you are willing to up that amount or willing to go ahead and take the Tag price for a year knowing you have the cap space and just see what is available the next season.

Right now Hightower is making the smart decision. He can play a bit of the waiting game and get the tag or see if NE is willing to come up on their price. I mean I'm guessing that offer will still be available say FA is a day or 2 a way and Hightower would rather still stay in NE. I know NE doesn't usually play games like that a whole lot but Hightower is one of the few worth continuing talks with

Funny you mention Te'o. I read that NE was very interested in him and was hoping he slipped more so they could make a move for him. He is also coming of an injury so that might make the gamble worth it, money wise. SD has some studs at LB already, so it might work out. Be interesting to see what BB has him do here in NE.

 

[BigKen]

I think that we'll hear more and more rumors as the draft gets closer.

There was talk yesterday on the Sports Hub about the fact that Houston really wants to get out from under Osweiler's contract. Reports are that O'Brien was not 100% on board with bringing OZ to the Texans but the Owner want to make a splash and was hoping that the Texans might possibly be playing in the Super Bowl at home.

Rumors are that O'Brien really, really wants JG and is willing to make the moves to get him. That's all the talking heads needed to hear. Yesterday they were talking like this deal is already done and signed in blood. JG will go to Houston and Houston will send OLB Whitney Mercilus and CB Johnathan Joseph to the Patriots. Seems a bit steep for JG but one never knows.

From my mancave, if the Texans made this offer, what would Cleveland or Chicago offer or SF? Would Cleveland pull a Ricky Williams type deal and blow the Patriots away? Two 1st and two 2nd round picks?? I could see BB turning the #1 and #12 into at least four more picks and grabbing some really top quality college talent. Then again he just might use them to get the best defensive players at those spots.

Without question, giving people time to dream and then letting them talk about it just greases the board more and more. If we're hearing this kind of crazy stuff, why wouldn't the fans of the teams looking to trade be talking about getting JG? The best comment I heard I heard yesterday was that if a team did decide to trade for JG, they'd have a QB with experience against good teams (AZ, MIA) and won. He has a 70% completion record and over 700 yards passing. There's no question he can play and win in the NFL, why would anyone want to take a gamble on a college kid with the pick that they'd be trading???

 

[cdumler7]

Funny you mention Te'o. I read that NE was very interested in him and was hoping he slipped more so they could make a move for him. He is also coming of an injury so that might make the gamble worth it, money wise. SD has some studs at LB already, so it might work out. Be interesting to see what BB has him do here in NE.

His injuries unfortunately have really derailed not only his career but his athleticism has taken a big hit. I've watched plenty of him being in the AFC West and man he struggles to get to the right spot. Still if there is anybody who can maximize the talent he has left it is NE.

 

[cdumler7]

I think that we'll hear more and more rumors as the draft gets closer.

There was talk yesterday on the Sports Hub about the fact that Houston really wants to get out from under Osweiler's contract. Reports are that O'Brien was not 100% on board with bringing OZ to the Texans but the Owner want to make a splash and was hoping that the Texans might possibly be playing in the Super Bowl at home.

Rumors are that O'Brien really, really wants JG and is willing to make the moves to get him. That's all the talking heads needed to hear. Yesterday they were talking like this deal is already done and signed in blood. JG will go to Houston and Houston will send OLB Whitney Mercilus and CB Johnathan Joseph to the Patriots. Seems a bit steep for JG but one never knows.

From my mancave, if the Texans made this offer, what would Cleveland or Chicago offer or SF? Would Cleveland pull a Ricky Williams type deal and blow the Patriots away? Two 1st and two 2nd round picks?? I could see BB turning the #1 and #12 into at least four more picks and grabbing some really top quality college talent. Then again he just might use them to get the best defensive players at those spots.

Without question, giving people time to dream and then letting them talk about it just greases the board more and more. If we're hearing this kind of crazy stuff, why wouldn't the fans of the teams looking to trade be talking about getting JG? The best comment I heard I heard yesterday was that if a team did decide to trade for JG, they'd have a QB with experience against good teams (AZ, MIA) and won. He has a 70% completion record and over 700 yards passing. There's no question he can play and win in the NFL, why would anyone want to take a gamble on a college kid with the pick that they'd be trading???

Plenty of reasons to take a chance on a college kid over JG.

1) You have a cost controlled player for 4-5 years compared to just 1.
2) New coaches would probably rather hitch their wagon to a rookie becaues they can always go to the excuse of needing time to develop the player giving them 3 years of security.
3) Jimmy G has shown some promise but a 2 game window has cost teams big time in the past. Teams will think of guys like Cassel, Flynn, Osweiler that had limited game experience but showed some promise. Once film actually got out on the players though and teams saw the major weaknesses in their game they became back up caliber type players. So trading anything remotely close to what you are talking about would be a huge risk that would get a lot of people fired if it fails or even isn't a home run.
4) Teams have seen plenty of QB's have success with NE and then go elsewhere and fall flat on their face. So many will think the success is system based more so than talent based.

As for the offers you are talking about. I just can't see them happening. Even desperate for QB teams I would think wouldn't be that stupid. No way is Cleveland giving up the 1st overall pick let alone then also the 2nd 1st round pick and then even more. That just isn't even close to realistic. To me so far I'm hearing it more from Patriots world that teams are this interested in Jimmy G than I am hearing it from the teams that are so called interested. Seems like the Patriots are trying to drive up the price in the hopes some team panics.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Daniel Jerhami's unofficial poll favored AJ McCarron over Jimmy G
Then again it only takes one partner to dance.

 

[BigKen]

Plenty of reasons to take a chance on a college kid over JG.

1) You have a cost controlled player for 4-5 years compared to just 1.
2) New coaches would probably rather hitch their wagon to a rookie becaues they can always go to the excuse of needing time to develop the player giving them 3 years of security.
3) Jimmy G has shown some promise but a 2 game window has cost teams big time in the past. Teams will think of guys like Cassel, Flynn, Osweiler that had limited game experience but showed some promise. Once film actually got out on the players though and teams saw the major weaknesses in their game they became back up caliber type players. So trading anything remotely close to what you are talking about would be a huge risk that would get a lot of people fired if it fails or even isn't a home run.
4) Teams have seen plenty of QB's have success with NE and then go elsewhere and fall flat on their face. So many will think the success is system based more so than talent based.

As for the offers you are talking about. I just can't see them happening. Even desperate for QB teams I would think wouldn't be that stupid. No way is Cleveland giving up the 1st overall pick let alone then also the 2nd 1st round pick and then even more. That just isn't even close to realistic. To me so far I'm hearing it more from Patriots world that teams are this interested in Jimmy G than I am hearing it from the teams that are so called interested. Seems like the Patriots are trying to drive up the price in the hopes some team panics.

I'm not talking. The guys on Sports Hub were talking. I'm just brushing over about 90 or so minutes that I listened to. As a Bronco fan, of course you're hoping that everything goes to hell in a handbasket. I'm just telling Patriot fans what's being discussed. As far as driving the price up..............Belichick will keep saying that JG is not available at any price literally forcing teams to challenge the price. As far as Cleveland is concerned, it's a known fact that they have inquired about the availability of JG and they told their fans that they had inquired. That's what has set this entire discussion in motion about two weeks ago.

1. JG will be traded to a team that Donald Yee has already negotiated a contract. Considering the new rookie contracts run about $5-$7M for 5 years. JG's contract will probably be a better deal.
2. Most "new' coaches were hired by teams with GMs. The GMs do the player acquisitions, not the coaches. They may have input but the GMs are also working for their jobs. They'll do what they feel is best.
3. JG has played in 7 NFL games and started 2, both wins. Has a 70% completion rate and has thrown for over 700 yards. That is a starting QB, not a back up. Trading for him is a much less risk than drafting a QB and 'hoping' he is smart enough to pick up the pro game and 'hoping' he can start and 'hoping' he can win.
4. System based or not, the game performance was there. Every team has some sort of system, so the system mentality is a bit skewed. Can he play QB or not? Can he play in our system? Can Brady play in the NY Jets system? Can Drew Brees play in the Patriots system? Or does every quarterback fall on his face when he leaves his previous system?

 

[cdumler7]

I'm not talking. The guys on Sports Hub were talking. I'm just brushing over about 90 or so minutes that I listened to. As a Bronco fan, of course you're hoping that everything goes to hell in a handbasket. I'm just telling Patriot fans what's being discussed. As far as driving the price up..............Belichick will keep saying that JG is not available at any price literally forcing teams to challenge the price. As far as Cleveland is concerned, it's a known fact that they have inquired about the availability of JG and they told their fans that they had inquired. That's what has set this entire discussion in motion about two weeks ago.

1. JG will be traded to a team that Donald Yee has already negotiated a contract. Considering the new rookie contracts run about $5-$7M for 5 years. JG's contract will probably be a better deal.
2. Most "new' coaches were hired by teams with GMs. The GMs do the player acquisitions, not the coaches. They may have input but the GMs are also working for their jobs. They'll do what they feel is best.
3. JG has played in 7 NFL games and started 2, both wins. Has a 70% completion rate and has thrown for over 700 yards. That is a starting QB, not a back up. Trading for him is a much less risk than drafting a QB and 'hoping' he is smart enough to pick up the pro game and 'hoping' he can start and 'hoping' he can win.
4. System based or not, the game performance was there. Every team has some sort of system, so the system mentality is a bit skewed. Can he play QB or not? Can he play in our system? Can Brady play in the NY Jets system? Can Drew Brees play in the Patriots system? Or does every quarterback fall on his face when he leaves his previous system?

Not saying that teams haven't inquired about him. What I am saying is that the Patriots have plenty of reason to put out information that lots of teams have contacted them about his availability. They can drive up the price. We see this happen all the time in the NFL.

And yes while I don't want to see things work out in the Patriots favor we also have to think realistically here. 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks especially from a team that has top-12 type picks in both rounds is ridiculous. The prospects that get that kind of trade value are the Andrew Luck types in the world not the Jimmy G's especially when they only have 1 more year of cost controlled value. I mean this is just common sense reasoning.

1) How will JG's deal be a better deal? He has 1-year of cost controlled ability. So that means if he is good then the team has to pay him $20-25 million the next season or if he fails then whatever team traded for him is out those picks after just one season. That is why I'm saying the whole jobs on the line thing matters because the window is 1 year to see if this deal worked out. At least with a rookie you can use the excuse of needing 3 years for a QB to show what htye can really do.

3) JG hasn't played enough games for teams to have enough film on him. Teams have constantly said it takes 16 games worth of film to see the tendencies of players and what throws or looks really bother them. That is why guys like Tim Tebow could have a bit of success as a rookie as teams were still trying to figure out what he could do. Same with Kaepernick that once teams figured out what kind of looks he struggled with boom his career tanked.

4) The system argument is geared towards that the Patriots have one of the more QB friendly systems in the entire NFL. They can do this because they find skill position players with high intelligence that can run the system. The skill position players actually have some of the tougher assignments with the Patriots which is why not many teams run the system. It is hard to find that type of player. If you can though it is set up for the QB to find success. So they go elsewhere and are asked to operate a more complicated system (only about 3-4 coaches in the NFL run the same system the Patriots do) they fall short.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

His injuries unfortunately have really derailed not only his career but his athleticism has taken a big hit. I've watched plenty of him being in the AFC West and man he struggles to get to the right spot. Still if there is anybody who can maximize the talent he has left it is NE.

I actually thought he was having a pretty nice yr before he got hurt. Not sure what is left in the tank, but I'll leave that to BB.