No body checks in hockey ???

[elocomotive]

Kid's see college and pro players do it so they do it. That's why I am all for them cracking down on players that come flying in leaving their feet with their elbow aimed at another players head. A two game suspension is not enough.

Send a message that this is wrong and lets get back to having a good physical game with solid body checks and bring back the lost art of the hip check. You don't see them very often anymore.

All excellent points, Boss. One comment on the hip check - I think changes in the Interference penalty have made it a less useful tool in a defenseman's arsenal.

 

[sherbert1421]

That said, for 11 year olds it may be a good idea. Heck, kids are playing football FAR too young too. Injuries that they obtain can be much more detrimental than to boys post-puberty. Just gotta be careful to monitor it. The biggest issue is size differential. Kids those ages vary greatly.

EDIT: Also, they don't know how to control their bodies/how to hit, making it more dangerous.

excellent points. i was always undersized when i was playing at that age. as a result i was constantly playing against kids who weighed 30 + pounds more than me. but i was able to learn how to take the check and not put myself into dangerous situations and did just fine. like you said, the most important thing is to teach kids how to properly check, which most kids that age have no idea how to deliver.

checking would not be a problem if kids were properly educated on the matter

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Thanks for all of the feedback. Good hockey talk is always great!

 

[beantownmaniac]

That said, for 11 year olds it may be a good idea. Heck, kids are playing football FAR too young too. Injuries that they obtain can be much more detrimental than to boys post-puberty. Just gotta be careful to monitor it. The biggest issue is size differential. Kids those ages vary greatly.

EDIT: Also, they don't know how to control their bodies/how to hit, making it more dangerous.

I have to disagree with you Pix. It's at these ages, specifically 11-12, when they should learn the proper techniques with tackling in football and checking in hockey. It's only 2 or 3 more years before they are playing in juniors or on high school teams. Most of the injuries occur because of bad coaching. What I mean by that is you have asshole coaches who don't care if the games are fun for the kids, they want to win at any cost to boost their already over inflated ego's. I've seen these coaches in youth hockey, football, and baseball. They live vicariously through their players. Football and hockey have gotten more vicious because the people teaching them have. JMO

Edit: I posted this before reading the rest of the thread. It seems we all agree it's the coaching these kids receive.

 

[beantownmaniac]

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

On the football train of thought, I heard today where a college coach wants to eliminate kick-offs because of that kid who was paralyzed last year. What would be next, no crossing routes for receivers and no pass rush on the QB? Honestly, I think all contact sports are going to be extinct soon because every time something bad happens in today's world, there is an immediate and extreme over-reaction to it. I wouldn't want to see my kid (or in my case, grandkid) hurt any more than the next guy but most of these bad injuries in sports are freak occurrences and I wouldn't want one of my grandkids playing if it's only going to be half-assed. I just don't think it's productive to just say "no hitting" and then the kid isn't prepared if something freaky happens. There are no easy solutions, I know that.

 

[puckhead]

I completely agree with that. Teaching is the most important thing. Just banning something does nothing for the kids who are good enough to go on to high level junior or the NHL. It only puts them behind the other guys. I do agree that the younger age groups shouldn't have hitting to protect the kids but only because they haven't got the other parts of the game down yet like good skate balance and handling the puck without looking down. Once these kids get into the 11-12 range and higher (providing they've been playing awhile), they can be evaluated and separated into groups with players on the same level of skill as them (whenever possible, at least). Then teach them the proper technique for hitting and receiving a hit. I played minor hockey as a kid from when I was 7 until 16 and the only time I got knocked out was when I lost an edge and fell into the boards. Never from a hit and I was skinny and not very good and the equipment sucked.

well said. It's a fine line between teaching them early enough so that they are too small to really damage each others, and they know it properly by the time they do get some bulk on the frames.
I think it was in Peewee (age 11-12 iirc) that bodychecking was introduced in the Rep leagues. House leagues remained no contact. provided a safe environment for kids having fun/exercise, but if you were competitive, it was the right time for it. you need to learn to give / take hits effectively and safely before you get any bigger. At that age, there are starting to be size disparities, and if you wait any longer (Bantam was 13-14ish?), the late growth spurt kids would get killed but reckless giants.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I'm for this move. Kids are still learning fundamentals at that age, and are still trying to master skating and game awareness. If kids aren't worried about getting crushed by someone their same age, but 6 inches taller, they are going to develop into more complete hockey players. There is plenty of time between 13-18 for them to learn proper checking techniques, this move is going to increase the overall quality of US Hockey, IMO.

Remember: At age 11-12, kids can be anywhere from 4'3 to 5'10, so not everyone is on equal footing when it comes to checking. Also, most kids are still trying to work on skating, puckhandling, and learning how plays develop around them.

There was a really good article on it in an old Bucci column.

Producing elite U.S. players starts at bottom - ESPN

Bucci: What is USA Hockey's philosophy on checking and how it develops skilled hockey players?

Rausch: I've just been a part of a subcommittee that is heavily involved in the checking issue. And my observation talking to medical people and hockey people is that more hockey contact should be introduced younger whereas full-out body checking should be delayed until Bantams (ages 13 and 14). When I say body contact, I mean, watch a women's Olympic hockey game -- it's pretty physical and there's a lot of contact involved. But, there is never that check that is intended to intimidate, blow a kid up, knock him off his skates or in football terms "de-cleat" someone. That is, unfortunately, what most kids and coaches start to associate checking with. And that's not checking. Checking is an art and science to separate a puck carrier from the puck. And if you start playing Red, White and Blue small area hockey at a younger age, people are going to bump into each other by accident because there is less room out there. The more they do that the more used to body contact they are going to get and as they get older, they will be fine when full body checking is introduced later. We don't want less contact. We want more contact but less violent contact.

Our biggest reason why we want to delay full checking is not just because of the medical issue, although safety is our No. 1 concern, but it's also the skill issue. What we have learned through long-term athletic development is that there are certain windows of trainability. At ages 10 to 12, the biggest window of trainability is skill acquisition and if a kid is either concerned only with hitting or avoiding being hit are we developing skill? Doctors have told us that an 11-year-old brain cannot fully comprehend how to avoid a check and make a play at the same time. So if they can't do that at 11, why are we having full checking?

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

That Bucci column made a really good and relevant point. "Blowing up" or "de-cleating" is NOT checking. This is the problem with our instant media, youtube and ESPN hi-lite reel world. Kids see this and think it's the way to do things. Again, teaching them properly is the key. It is a skill just like every other skill. You don't have to give up teaching the other skills to teach this one.

I went to summer hockey school at 11 years old and one day out of the 2 weeks was devoted to the proper technique for a clean body check and how to avoid or absorb a check. It was simple and straightforward and thanks to Bill Flett, I never got hurt. Shoulder to the logo(chest), again and again. Head up and awareness at all times, again and again.

Size is also not as much of a factor as many people think. I was a small kid but I took and received body checks from bigger kids a lot and often got the better of it because of good teaching and technique. The problem with waiting until 13-14 (bantam) is that kids are already getting more developed physically and the smaller, less gifted kid is not prepared. This, to me is even more dangerous.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

That Bucci column made a really good and relevant point. "Blowing up" or "de-cleating" is NOT checking. This is the problem with our instant media, youtube and ESPN hi-lite reel world. Kids see this and think it's the way to do things. Again, teaching them properly is the key. It is a skill just like every other skill. You don't have to give up teaching the other skills to teach this one.

I went to summer hockey school at 11 years old and one day out of the 2 weeks was devoted to the proper technique for a clean body check and how to avoid or absorb a check. It was simple and straightforward and thanks to Bill Flett, I never got hurt. Shoulder to the logo(chest), again and again. Head up and awareness at all times, again and again.

Size is also not as much of a factor as many people think. I was a small kid but I took and received body checks from bigger kids a lot and often got the better of it because of good teaching and technique. The problem with waiting until 13-14 (bantam) is that kids are already getting more developed physically and the smaller, less gifted kid is not prepared. This, to me is even more dangerous.

I don't know if it's the overall speed of the game today, a lack of respect, other factors, a combination of the three, or what... but those shoulder-to-chest hits are sorely lacking in today's NHL. I was 6'5 when I was freaking 14, and I learned VERY VERY quickly that I had to play very carefully to stay out of the penalty box. It should be friggin ingrained into these guy's DNA to avoid the head. But it seems every week or two, there is some knucklehead getting his shoulder up into someone's jaw. That's GOT TO STOP, and I'm having trouble figuring out where it's coming from. It's something most guys are taught from a young age.


Fuck the whole "blindside hit to the head" thing. "Blindside" is stupid. It shouldn't matter if it's blindside, whatever... a head to the head is a hit to the head. Knock it off.


/also, good post

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

I think there will always be the odd "accidental" hit to the head but I agree that so many guys now don't even try to get lower. I also think part of the problem is the full face shields. I'm not knocking them from a safety standpoint but they have taken a healthy fear away from the game. Not just hits but the sticks flying around people's heads. Kids are thinking that you can't get hurt because you are protected and it almost seems to work in the negative. You can't go back, I realize that, but again, kids need to be taught that the head is off-limits regardless of how protected you are.

The other thing is the European influence on the game itself. The lateral passing game and criss-cross skating at the blueline do play a factor. Players must be taught awareness on both sides. The guy receiving the hit must be alert and ready because something is invariably coming. But the guy doing the hitting needs to know he doesn't have to blow the guy up to send a message. You can give a guy a check that slows him down and makes him re-consider things next time without going full force when you can see he isn't looking.