Need trade help again.

[boredoutofmymind]

12 Team H2H Dynasty League
Batt stats - hr, rbi, r, sb, .avg
Pitch stats - QS, SV, ERA, WHIP, K

So I have been working on moving C. Santana for a while now.
My idea is to work a 2 - 1 to gain a good SP.
This guy has Latos, Harvey, Miley and Kimbrel
I am gonna think of a few offers I can send him if he declines. but I need assistance.

I would of course love to get Harvey but he may be really high on him or even Kimbrel because my current closers are Mujica, Grilli and Frieri.
I will now list my pitchers in hopes you all can help me work out something to give for one of these pitchers above without overpaying too much.

J. Zimmerman
Frieri
Grilli
Rondon
Morrow
Cingrani
Mujica
Matt Reynolds
E. Santana
Skaggs
G. Gonzalez
Garcia
Grimm
Biddle
Garza

if you need more info on my team just ask. Thanks for the help in advance.
Also I could try offering up Gomez in the deal also instead of a pitcher.

 

[tlance]

I think Harvey is the only guy who would move the needle enough to help you. Latos is solid, but not worth as much as Carlos Santana. Miley is nowhere near the same level. While Kimbrel is great, an RP doesn't pitch enough innings to effectively help lower your ERA and WHIP.

I would start with Santana and Mujica as an offer for Harvey. He won't accept, but it would be a good starting point. Santana should have comparable value to Harvey in a keeper, but you will have to overpay significantly to land Harvey right now. If your potential partner does not need a catcher, this deal won't happen.

 

[boredoutofmymind]

I think Harvey is the only guy who would move the needle enough to help you. Latos is solid, but not worth as much as Carlos Santana. Miley is nowhere near the same level. While Kimbrel is great, an RP doesn't pitch enough innings to effectively help lower your ERA and WHIP.

I would start with Santana and Mujica as an offer for Harvey. He won't accept, but it would be a good starting point. Santana should have comparable value to Harvey in a keeper, but you will have to overpay significantly to land Harvey right now. If your potential partner does not need a catcher, this deal won't happen.

He does need a Catcher but before I talked to him about this he wanted Santana + something else for Harvey.

 

[tlance]

The 3 pitchers I would hold would be Gio, Zimmermann and Cingrani. Anybody else would be up for grabs as the second piece in a dynasty league trade. Try to keep Grilli if you can, but if he is the price that you must pay, I would do it.

I suggested Mujica because he is doing well as the Cardinals closer and has significant value right now. Whether or not he keeps the role long term is up in the air. He has more value than Frieri, but less chance of keeping his job than Grilli.

 

[boredoutofmymind]

The lead cy young candidate is worth more now. Definitely not for a back up closer.

Is what he has to say about the offer of Mujica + Santana for Harvey. and of course there was no counter offer made.

 

[Reverend Jim]

Is what he has to say about the offer of Mujica + Santana for Harvey. and of course there was no counter offer made.

With your next offer, include a note with a list of the pitchers (or players) you'd be willing to package with Santana. Maybe he'll see someone that you might not have considered or something he likes and make you a counter offer. Don't give up just because he didn't counter.

 

[tlance]

Is what he has to say about the offer of Mujica + Santana for Harvey. and of course there was no counter offer made.

Then you might not be able to get him. You can try Grilli. If you offer any of the 3 aces that I mentioned in the previous reply, you are giving way to much. Harvey is a good pitcher, but this is quite possibly the worst possible time to try and acquire him given the hot start.

Santana is very valuable in a dynasty league. If he is expecting another stud on top, then he is being unrealistic and you should move on.

 

[tlance]

The other thing is that people tend to drastically over-value their own players. Ask him this question:

If your league did a re-draft today, where would Harvey go? What about Santana?

Harvey would likely go a little higher in a dynasty league, but in standard formats, I would guess he would be drafted near round 5, give or take an round. Santana would be pretty close to that. If your trade partner thinks that Harvey should be valued with the Kershaw and Verlander's of the world based off of 6 good starts, then you need a new partner.

 

[boredoutofmymind]

The other thing is that people tend to drastically over-value their own players. Ask him this question:

If your league did a re-draft today, where would Harvey go? What about Santana?

Harvey would likely go a little higher in a dynasty league, but in standard formats, I would guess he would be drafted near round 5, give or take an round. Santana would be pretty close to that. If your trade partner thinks that Harvey should be valued with the Kershaw and Verlander's of the world based off of 6 good starts, then you need a new partner.

This is exactly what he thinks. He believes Harvey is a top 5 SP with the Stras, Verl, Kershaws. I honestly think I would have to really overpay in order to get Harvey and I don't see it happening. I know he probably would not even do Latos for Santana straight up which even then I don't even think I would do.

The only offer I can see that MAY be accepted is Mike Minor + Zobrist for Rollins + Santana. Even then I don't know if I really like this deal because I feel Santana is worth alot more than this. Your thoughts?

 

[Microwahevo]

The other thing is that people tend to drastically over-value their own players

Amen. This is probably the toughest part about making a trade.

Ask him this question:

If your league did a re-draft today, where would Harvey go? What about Santana?

This is a great piece of advice. Not sure if this will open up the communication or not, but it could get him thinking.

And I disagree about Gio. I think he is a guy you can definitely let go of. Especially if you can gain a Harvey. But, I would acutally try and offer up Grimm and Santana for Harvey first, see how that goes over. But do not give up Zimmerman or Cingrani.

 

[boredoutofmymind]

Amen. This is probably the toughest part about making a trade.

This is a great piece of advice. Not sure if this will open up the communication or not, but it could get him thinking.

And I disagree about Gio. I think he is a guy you can definitely let go of. Especially if you can gain a Harvey. But, I would acutally try and offer up Grimm and Santana for Harvey first, see how that goes over. But do not give up Zimmerman or Cingrani.

Well I think the issue is the guy thinks of Harvey as a top 5 SP. I can't afford to give up any of my SP at all really but if I could upgrade by trading a lesser sp+santana I would but not many ppl are interested in paying as much as Santana is worth.

I have been thinking of buying low on Ike Davis and also trying to get Escobar and send him Rollins (or at least offer this) so what do you all think of this? I know it may be a downgrade from Rollins but I feel I need to sell Rollins before this season ends before he becomes worth less in leagues.

 

[Philabuster5]

Buying low on Davis is likely a good idea. For every 10 owners that drafted him, expecting him to produce like he did the last half of 2012, probably 7 or 8 are fed up. Make sure you're buying low though. I'd almost give him away in one league.
As far as Rollins, you may have to wait and hope he heats up in order to get some value for him. You may have missed the opportunity to get a young SS in a dynasty league. You'll never guess who I traded him straight up for last year....Simmons (although that's no boast...with Simmons' play currently I could have waited...but I try to get ahead on dealing players like Rollins)
Good luck....don't stress over losing Harvey...move on to Greinke maybe?

 

[TKOSpikes]

Pretty tough to land Harvey in a dynasty league.

Although I have to bring up the question (and maybe I missed it), but why are you so gung-ho on trading Santana? Who is your other C?

 

[TKOSpikes]

Did you try Gio and Santana? For Harvey and some change that fits your pocket? I'm worried about Gio, this year and going forward.

 

[boredoutofmymind]

Buying low on Davis is likely a good idea. For every 10 owners that drafted him, expecting him to produce like he did the last half of 2012, probably 7 or 8 are fed up. Make sure you're buying low though. I'd almost give him away in one league.
As far as Rollins, you may have to wait and hope he heats up in order to get some value for him. You may have missed the opportunity to get a young SS in a dynasty league. You'll never guess who I traded him straight up for last year....Simmons (although that's no boast...with Simmons' play currently I could have waited...but I try to get ahead on dealing players like Rollins)
Good luck....don't stress over losing Harvey...move on to Greinke maybe?

I did end up getting Simmons back after the guy who picked him up dropped him soon after for Lorenzo Cain. Also I do not feel Greinke is going to be obtainable for what I am trying to trade. The guy has 3 catchers already and no need for a SS like Rollins. If he did need anything it would be an OF (to replace Ethier, Heyward is on his DL) or 1B (to replace Berkman with Teixeira on his DL)

Pretty tough to land Harvey in a dynasty league.

Although I have to bring up the question (and maybe I missed it), but why are you so gung-ho on trading Santana? Who is your other C?

I have Rosario and Buck.

Did you try Gio and Santana? For Harvey and some change that fits your pocket? I'm worried about Gio, this year and going forward.

I feel giving both of these players is overpaying. When Gio is on his game he alone is good and adding Santana who is a top two catcher (I feel he is the #1 catcher) is giving up way too much.