NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[fightinfunbags]

confident in saying no team was getting him without doing what the Browns did. anyone to blame it's Houston for giving him a no trade clause. Cleveland may have had that reputation but their coach at the time and still got a top 10 season out of healthy Baker.

Never mind the idea the Browns had trouble attracting FAs and/or had to pay more than other teams does not seem true.

No, this is revisionist history. The Browns were out until they came in at the end with the promise of a fully guaranteed deal. They did what no other team was willing to do for a guy with a checkered past.

 

[dtgold88]

Like I said, no team is giving up 4 prospects or whatever the asking price was to have Otani for a few months and lose him this winter.

actually what you said was "multiple" prospects which could be 2 or 3. Seems you moved the goal posts.

Lesser players than him have gotten their team a couple good prospects (or more) even with impending FA.

 

[dtgold88]

No, this is revisionist history. The Browns were out until they came in at the end with the promise of a fully guaranteed deal. They did what no other team was willing to do for a guy with a checkered past.

You actually don't know that no team was willing to do it as many times as you claim to know.

Never mind the idea the Browns cannot get top FAs or need to pay more than others in general cannot be backed.

 

[thunderc]

Seriously? Never mind he's the best player in the league but the team who got him would also get exclusive negotiating rights to him for a few months.

Yes heard this discussed the other day. The Cardinals took this approach with McGuire and were able to persuade him to stay.

 

[fightinfunbags]

You actually don't know that no team was willing to do it as many times as you claim to know.

Haha whatever. The Browns were out and off the table until they came with that provision and then they automatically go to the top of the heap. Are you serious with this? Read between the lines. That’s exactly what happened. You do this shit all the time. Because front offices don’t release a daily journal of every decision and every bit of reasoning they employ you always hide behind a standard used in a criminal court of needing hard evidence. You know full well that they play cloak and dagger games and if we ever get legitimate confirmation it comes in someone’s book published 20 years after the fact. It’s a mighty convenient construct.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Haha whatever. The Browns were out and off the table until they came with that provision and then they automatically go to the top of the heap. Are you serious with this? Read between the lines. That’s exactly what happened. You do this shit all the time. Because front offices don’t release a daily journal of every decision and every bit of reasoning they employ you always hide behind a standard used in a criminal court of needing hard evidence. You know full well that they play cloak and dagger games and if we ever get legitimate confirmation it comes in someone’s book published 20 years after the fact. It’s a mighty convenient construct.

it was pretty bang bang but for a hot second the Browns were out of the running...yes

 

[dtgold88]

Haha whatever. The Browns were out and off the table until they came with that provision and then they automatically go to the top of the heap. Are you serious with this? Read between the lines. That’s exactly what happened. You do this shit all the time. Because front offices don’t release a daily journal of every decision and every bit of reasoning they employ you always hide behind a standard used in a criminal court of needing hard evidence. You know full well that they play cloak and dagger games and if we ever get legitimate confirmation it comes in someone’s book published 20 years after the fact. It’s a mighty convenient construct.

Yes, I'm serious. You have no idea if others would have offered the same deal. Not so farfetched to think the Browns gave him the best chance to win over the other suitors and was where he wanted to go. You do this shit all the time.

Never mind the idea the Browns cannot get top FAs or need to pay more than others in general cannot be backed.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yes, I'm serious. You have no idea if others would have offered the same deal. Not so farfetched to think the Browns gave him the best chance to win over the other suitors and was where he wanted to go. You do this shit all the time.

Never mind the idea the Browns cannot get top FAs or need to pay more than others in general cannot be backed.

You win. I don’t have the energy today. Lean on a ridiculous standard. Ignore the way things really played out.

 

[dtgold88]

You win. I don’t have the energy today. Lean on a ridiculous standard. Ignore the way things really played out.

The energy? Uh, sure. Be nice if in one of these debates you ever had actual facts to back what you think is factual.

a ridiculous standard? I mean, how often is a perceived elite QB entering his prime on the market? Idea you think it's so farfetched another team was willing to guarantee his full deal to get such a player seems absurd. QBs are important and good ones are hard to find.

If a team believes in watson would they really be so scared to guarantee the entire deal they hope to pay out anyway? The guarantee is so overblown.

 

[shopson67]

actually what you said was "multiple" prospects which could be 2 or 3. Seems you moved the goal posts.

Lesser players than him have gotten their team a couple good prospects (or more) even with impending FA.

"or whatever"

no goal posts were harmed

 

[dtgold88]

"or whatever"

no goal posts were harmed

to be fair, moving them does not harm them.

Either way, lesser players (so pretty much anyone) have gone for multiple prospects when facing FA after the season.

 

[msgkings322]

I’m thinking he could get 10 years and 600 million. That would be insane but if you think about it, he plays two roles. He’s a top of the rotation arm (30 million) and an every day with bat with incredible power numbers (30 million). Now that I typed it out, I may have sold short. It could be 700 or 800 million. I think the number starts though at 60 million AAV.

He's a better hitter (maybe the best in the game) than pitcher (very good)

And yes $60 mil/year is likely a bargain price

 

[trojanfan12]

The energy? Uh, sure. Be nice if in one of these debates you ever had actual facts to back what you think is factual.

a ridiculous standard? I mean, how often is a perceived elite QB entering his prime on the market? Idea you think it's so farfetched another team was willing to guarantee his full deal to get such a player seems absurd. QBs are important and good ones are hard to find.

If a team believes in watson would they really be so scared to guarantee the entire deal they hope to pay out anyway? The guarantee is so overblown.

It was reported that the Browns were one of the teams that was trying to land Watson.

Then it was reported that the Browns were out the running.

Then it was reported that the Browns had fully guaranteed the contract, Watson was signing and the other teams were pissed because of the possible precedent that was set.

You're right, we don't know what all was said or what all was offered.

However, based on what was reported, it seems fairly obvious that the Browns were out of the running until they made an unprecedented offer. It also seems a bit obvious that no one else made him that kind of offer because no other offer like it was reported and the rest of the league was said to be unhappy about it.

 

[fightinfunbags]

It was reported that the Browns were one of the teams that was trying to land Watson.

Then it was reported that the Browns were out the running.

Then it was reported that the Browns had fully guaranteed the contract, Watson was signing and the other teams were pissed because of the possible precedent that was set.

You're right, we don't know what all was said or what all was offered.

However, based on what was reported, it seems fairly obvious that the Browns were out of the running until they made an unprecedented offer. It also seems a bit obvious that no one else made him that kind of offer because no other offer like it was reported and the rest of the league was said to be unhappy about it.

He knows this. But this is what he does. He sets up a ridiculous standard that he knows full well can never be met so he can cling tightly to plausible deniability. When he gets like this he could see that the bird is no longer in its cage, a bunch of feathers gathered around the family dog, and claim that no one can prove the dog ate the bird because no one directly saw the dog eat the bird.

 

[dtgold88]

It was reported that the Browns were one of the teams that was trying to land Watson.

Then it was reported that the Browns were out the running.

Then it was reported that the Browns had fully guaranteed the contract, Watson was signing and the other teams were pissed because of the possible precedent that was set.

You're right, we don't know what all was said or what all was offered.

However, based on what was reported, it seems fairly obvious that the Browns were out of the running until they made an unprecedented offer. It also seems a bit obvious that no one else made him that kind of offer because no other offer like it was reported and the rest of the league was said to be unhappy about it.

You think teams want their offer reported if not accepted? Do you think no one offered him to improve on his original deal at all?

I'm sure the teams who didn't get him who were in the running were pissed....because they didn't get him. The ones who had nothing to do with him were also likely pissed at the deal. Browns likely don't care and shouldn't care.

Never mind in general the Browns don't have trouble getting FAs they want and nothing points to them having to pay more than others to get FAs to come here.

 

[dtgold88]

He knows this. But this is what he does. He sets up a ridiculous standard that he knows full well can never be met so he can cling tightly to plausible deniability. When he gets like this he could see that the bird is no longer in its cage, a bunch of feathers gathered around the family dog, and claim that no one can prove the dog ate the bird because no one directly saw the dog eat the bird.

oh, the irony.

Curious....do you think no team offered Watson more than his current deal called for at the time?

 

[fightinfunbags]

oh, the irony.

Curious....do you think no team offered Watson more than his current deal called for at the time?

No irony here. You do this stuff with your teams all the time. Anybody who frequents this board knows this is what you do.

I’m curious though. When have I ever taken my team and denied reality and hid behind plausible deniability?

 

[dtgold88]

No irony here. You do this stuff with your teams all the time. Anybody who frequents this board knows this is what you do.

I’m curious though. When have I ever taken my team and denied reality and hid behind plausible deniability?

It's not like I've made some outlandish comments, though. There were a ton of teams who wanted the guy so it's certainly not crazy to think he received a couple equal offers and had to choose 1. For sure it's not crazy to think other teams offered to rip up his current deal and offer more. I noticed you would not answer whether you thought anyone did.

don't recall the plausible deniability angle used specifically but you are as guilty as most here about propping up your own team.

Guess you found some energy....a nap, perhaps, do the trick?

Never mind for some reason you still cannot come to grips the Browns do not struggle to land FAs nor do they have to spend more than others to bring them in.

 

[fightinfunbags]

It's not like I've made some outlandish comments, though. There were a ton of teams who wanted the guy so it's certainly not crazy to think he received a couple equal offers and had to choose 1. For sure it's not crazy to think other teams offered to rip up his current deal and offer more. I noticed you would not answer whether you thought anyone did.

don't recall the plausible deniability angle used specifically but you are as guilty as most here about propping up your own team.

Guess you found some energy....a nap, perhaps, do the trick?

Never mind for some reason you still cannot come to grips the Browns do not struggle to land FAs nor do they have to spend more than others to bring them in.

Got it. You can’t cite any time I’ve hid behind plausible deniability the way you habitually do. Thanks.

 

[dtgold88]

Got it. You can’t cite any time I’ve hid behind plausible deniability the way you habitually do. Thanks.

Because I don't take notes......never mind in this instance my comments are not even a little outlandish.

Ever going to answer my question (I say this realizing irrational people get spooked by direct questions)? Here it is again......is it your contention no team was willing to offer Watson more than his contract at the time called for to get him?

was going to let it go but you may want to find different terminology as what I have said does not constitute plausible deniability.