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NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

shopson67

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Is there a rule that I'm unaware of that says only the Eagles are allowed to use it?

If not, with the success the Eagles have had with it, other teams are stupid for not using it too.

The argument is that it's not a football play, it's a rugby play...

While that's true, it's also basically a QB sneak (which has been around forever) with a couple of guys lined up closer to the QB to assist him.

QB sneaks are fine. Lining up behind him and pushing the scrum forward is not football historically. Return to the previous rule.
 

shopson67

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I think the easy way to stop it is a rule about the proximity of players behind the qb. And I agree it’s a rugby play.

Not needed. As soon as someone pushes from behind (or pulls, carries, etc), dead ball at that spot.
 

shopson67

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No doubt QBs can be overdrafted by teams in need.......but to be fair real FOs don't really care about draft rankings.

They do though. They certainly care about their own rankings and knowing how other teams feel about a given player enables a good FO to better utilize your picks. Opportunity cost comes into the equation. If you value a player above the consensus value, maybe you can wait a round or trade down and pick up extra assets for example. Teams for sure want to at least be able to estimate their opponents' draft boards for those exact reasons. In the reverse, they need to know if they need to trade up ahead of a certain team or draft slot to get their guy.
 

thunderc

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Not needed. As soon as someone pushes from behind (or pulls, carries, etc), dead ball at that spot.
I would have no problem with them outlawing mass pushing or pulling. That and punching the ball.
 

fightinfunbags

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I would have no problem with them outlawing mass pushing or pulling. That and punching the ball.
Why punching the ball? It’s a legitimate way of using playing and coaching philosophy to create turnovers. This style of play won my team a Super Bowl. Turnovers differential is one of the most important sub stats that translate to winning football games. In a sport that is so slanted with rules to provide advantage to the offense, I don’t see the value in legislating something out of the game that benefits the defense. Football is a physical game. These plays don’t generally result in any kind of increased risk for injury. Where are you coming from on this one?
 

thunderc

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Why punching the ball? It’s a legitimate way of using playing and coaching philosophy to create turnovers. This style of play won my team a Super Bowl. Turnovers differential is one of the most important sub stats that translate to winning football games. In a sport that is so slanted with rules to provide advantage to the offense, I don’t see the value in legislating something out of the game that benefits the defense. Football is a physical game. These plays don’t generally result in any kind of increased risk for injury. Where are you coming from on this one?
Where am coming from is I am seeing wind ups now days and it’s not just at the pro level. I know these guys wear pads and stuff but punching and missing feels like a UFC element is being added. With all the player safety stuff going on this one just seems weird to me.
 

shopson67

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Why punching the ball? It’s a legitimate way of using playing and coaching philosophy to create turnovers. This style of play won my team a Super Bowl. Turnovers differential is one of the most important sub stats that translate to winning football games. In a sport that is so slanted with rules to provide advantage to the offense, I don’t see the value in legislating something out of the game that benefits the defense. Football is a physical game. These plays don’t generally result in any kind of increased risk for injury. Where are you coming from on this one?

No problem with punching the ball. This issue is when the defender isn't contacting the ball, making it just a punch. There have been unpenalized incidents where players are just getting repeatedly punched without coming close to hitting the football.
 

dtgold88

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Partially true. Busts are definitely valid overdrafts. Steals are valid underdrafts.

Puca Nacua was underdrafted. Quentin Johnson was overdrafted.
OK, but you are saying this based on how they have performed in career.......many call out reaches/overdrafts before even seeing a guy play. and what is it based on? Usually guesses by mockers on where they THINK real drafters will pick a guy.
 

dtgold88

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They do though. They certainly care about their own rankings and knowing how other teams feel about a given player enables a good FO to better utilize your picks. Opportunity cost comes into the equation. If you value a player above the consensus value, maybe you can wait a round or trade down and pick up extra assets for example. Teams for sure want to at least be able to estimate their opponents' draft boards for those exact reasons. In the reverse, they need to know if they need to trade up ahead of a certain team or draft slot to get their guy.
They really don't though. I'm sure if you saw actual draft boards of teams they would be so different from each other. They also know most if not all their peers don't care what draft guessers think.
 

fightinfunbags

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Where am coming from is I am seeing wind ups now days and it’s not just at the pro level. I know these guys wear pads and stuff but punching and missing feels like a UFC element is being added. With all the player safety stuff going on this one just seems weird to me.
I’d be fine with assessing penalties for excessiveness or for someone missing the ball and hitting someone in a dangerous place. I have a problem with making the whole action automatically illegal. This isn’t a player safety issue. With helmets, a punch isn’t going to result in a concussion or anything. That’s player safety - it’s common speak for protecting against brain injuries.
 

fightinfunbags

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No problem with punching the ball. This issue is when the defender isn't contacting the ball, making it just a punch. There have been unpenalized incidents where players are just getting repeatedly punched without coming close to hitting the football.
That’s already in the rules. You need officials to blow the whistle on the infraction. What you described is a personal foul.
 
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Shanemansj13

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Why punching the ball? It’s a legitimate way of using playing and coaching philosophy to create turnovers. This style of play won my team a Super Bowl. Turnovers differential is one of the most important sub stats that translate to winning football games. In a sport that is so slanted with rules to provide advantage to the offense, I don’t see the value in legislating something out of the game that benefits the defense. Football is a physical game. These plays don’t generally result in any kind of increased risk for injury. Where are you coming from on this one?
Defensive players already have a huge disadvantage. Punching the ball has always been in the league, just went more unnoticed for obvious reasons like social media and all that bullshit. If you take that away, I feel bad for defensive players
 

Shanemansj13

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No problem with punching the ball. This issue is when the defender isn't contacting the ball, making it just a punch. There have been unpenalized incidents where players are just getting repeatedly punched without coming close to hitting the football.
That would be tough to call. Basically have to review it unless it is very noticeable. Every time a defender punches you have to make sure he makes contact with the ball or a body part. I'm not sure how this is possible. Either keep it or take it away and if you take it away...you put the defensive players at more of a disadvantage.
 

shopson67

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OK, but you are saying this based on how they have performed in career.......many call out reaches/overdrafts before even seeing a guy play. and what is it based on? Usually guesses by mockers on where they THINK real drafters will pick a guy.

You can't group all projections together though. Some are from former or even current scouts. It's not all Kiper and McShay.
 

shopson67

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That would be tough to call. Basically have to review it unless it is very noticeable. Every time a defender punches you have to make sure he makes contact with the ball or a body part. I'm not sure how this is possible. Either keep it or take it away and if you take it away...you put the defensive players at more of a disadvantage.

It just should be penalized with a personal foul when egregious. It's not a common occurrence necessarily.
 

dtgold88

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You can't group all projections together though. Some are from former or even current scouts. It's not all Kiper and McShay.
some? sure.....but many take place on draft day and based on what Kiper, McShay, or many lesser known guys say. Or may just be based on websites like CBSsports, etc and their guys.

Bottom line for me is maybe the people running actual drafts take guys where all their scouts think they should be drafted and for their sake don't care what fake drafters think.

Now I will say in the NBA this might be different as their draft more closely resembles the mocks or draft rankings.
 

shopson67

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some? sure.....but many take place on draft day and based on what Kiper, McShay, or many lesser known guys say. Or may just be based on websites like CBSsports, etc and their guys.

Bottom line for me is maybe the people running actual drafts take guys where all their scouts think they should be drafted and for their sake don't care what fake drafters think.

Now I will say in the NBA this might be different as their draft more closely resembles the mocks or draft rankings.

CBS Sports used to have a former GM (Mayock) doing most of the scouting reports and they were pretty consistent and valid IMO. Not sure what they use now.

The NFL is less consistent by sheer volume IMO. 225+ players being drafted plus 100s more UDFA across far more positions and styles of play.
 

dtgold88

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CBS Sports used to have a former GM (Mayock) doing most of the scouting reports and they were pretty consistent and valid IMO. Not sure what they use now.

The NFL is less consistent by sheer volume IMO. 225+ players being drafted plus 100s more UDFA across far more positions and styles of play.
Yeah I remember as he has been brought up on this topic.....he was a lot better as a fake drafter than a real one.

Think other issues and why real draft boards would all be so different is not just amount of players but all the different positions.
 
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