Nate Silver does the math: SGA is playing like MJ

[thunderc]

Shai is pretty good, good thread

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Of course you/others have YET to lay out those "facts" that support your opinion.

I'm still waiting...

PS: I'm new to this board, so trying to be civil. If you want insults and trash talk I'm down with that too, skippy. Bring it on.

How did the Wizards do when MJ was 39

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Shai is pretty good, good thread

But LeBron crossed a street without looking both ways, ergo SGA sucks

 

[HawkFan]

Well…

The reason that is a valid comparison is because the other dude keeps trying to say that LeBron losing this season at age 40 is a stain on his resume.

That is legit crazy.

There is nothing LeBron can do at this point in his career that would hurt his legacy.

Agreed, other than hang on too long

 

[tlance]

Agreed, other than hang on too long

Even then.

If he is out there at 50 averaging 3 points a game.

It won’t change what he has accomplished

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

Magic was 1st Team All NBA, and runner-up in MVP voting in 1991 (to Jordan)... he led the Lakers to 58 wins (3rd best in the NBA), and the #5 Offense / #5 Defense that season, with the #3 Net Rating overall. In the Playoffs he averaged 22/8/13. Magic was still a Top 5 player in the game in 91, and the Lakers were a Top 3 team that beat the #2 Net Rated Blazers in the WCF.

But you're saying the Spurs were "WAAAAY better" than the 91 Lakers because the "92 Lakers" lost Magic to AIDS.

Oookay then...

That's an interesting take. Suffice to say I'm not buying it.

You LeBron fans are making excuses for Jordan Winning, then turning around and making excuse after excuse for LeBron Losing! That alone should be a clear indication that James isn't on Jordan's level, not even close.

Sorry if the truth bothers some of you...

Bronsexuals are the worst double talkers in sports history. Most disingenuous fanbase of all time.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

He LOST both series... what's your point???

Oh wait, you want to give him credit for losing YET discredit Jordan for winning.

Gotcha...!

SMH

Worse yet these clowns give LeBron MORE credit for LOSING than they give Jordan (or any other legend) for WINNING.

This is why Bron Stans are by far the worst. They've lowered the standard of GOAT debates to such an insane degree. No other consensus GOAT in any other sport has a losing record in their championship rounds but we're supposed to make an exception in basketball for LeBron because...reasons. They've made losing acceptable as long as you have nice stats. But of course they would never apply this standard to anyone else.

Winning used to be the standard. Then these clowns came along to try to desperately lower the standard when their hero's Finals losses started piling up.

 

[dtgold88]

Dude.

Nobody is actually trying to knock Jordan for not being a dominant player at 39 with the Wizards.

That would be stupid.

You know what else is stupid?

Trying to knock LeBron for losing as a 40 year old to a team that was every bit as good as his in a series where the best player on his team really did not play anywhere near his best.

Or trying to knock LeBron for losing to the Spurs in 2007.

Interesting how you want to tout Larry Hughes accolades with the Wizards, but fail to mention that he was a shell of that player with Cleveland. He struggled with injuries, family tragedy and just didn’t play well compared to his Wizards tenure.

He only averaged 14.9 PPG in 2007 and continued to decline after that.

Drew Gooden and Big Z?

You can’t be serious. You really believe either of these guys were 3rd options on a championship caliber team?

The Cavs second leading scorer from that playoff run averaged 12.6 PPG.

Cmon now.

Gooden and Z the least of his crazy.......he touted Pavlovic, Damon Jones and 2nd round rookie Booby Gibson. When Hughes was out in playoffs (which was often) our starting guards were Pavlovic and Eric Snow. Yikes.

 

[MAGA2024]

were you being serious with that? Larry Hughes could not stay healthy physically and mentally with the Cavs. Missed most of the playoff run so the starting guards were Eric Snow and Sasha Pavlovic.....did you really try to play up Pavloivic, Jones and Gibson who all did pretty much nothing in their careers especially with no Lebron? And 11 and 9 for Gooden? Really?

FYI, there is no need to compare to the Wizards the comparison is the Bulls teams and why Lebron could not pull off a win with this sadsack group compared to MJ having Pippen to hold his hand and others.

These are scrubs and tomato cans and yes, he carried them to the Finals.

It's just strikes me as funny when LeBron fans downplay LeBron's teammates to hype-up LeBron, while at the same time building up Jordan's teammates to diminish Jordan.

Larry Hughes wasn't healthy physically or mentally with the Cavs YET in Washington he was a stud? Sure, okay... but what about all these guys:

- Shaq in 2009 was an All NBA / All Star; the following season with LeBron his numbers plummeted
- Antawn Jamison went from 22/9 to obscurity once he teammed with James
- Bosh, Love, Westbrook, Ray Allen... they all saw their production plummet playing alongside LeBron
- Brandon Ingram became an All Star AND Most Improved Player as soon as he left LeBron
- Kyle Kuzma saw his numbers plummet alongside LeBron, then shoot back up once he left LeBron
- Big Z went from a 2-time All Star to just another guy alongside LeBron
- Luka led the Mavs past three (3!!) HIGHER seeds en route to the Finals last year; this year (with LeBron) he lost to a lower seed in the first-round

But do you know whose "stats/production/efficiency" never missed a beat despite sharing the same court with all that talent?

Exactly. LeBron.

Coicidence?

Hardly.

LeBron simply does not make "everyone around him better" as we've been led to believe... and Defensively he hasn't inspired his teammates in a decade because he himself (as the leader who should be setting the tone/example) doesN't play inspired Defense..

If you are a teammate of LeBron's you are required to change your game and adapt to HIS game (unless you're a one-dimensional role-player type, like a spot-up shooter)... which in itself is extremely odd since all we've heard is how versatile and "all around" brilliant James is supposed to be.

On the flipside Jordan had to adapt to a new system (ie; Triangle Offense) which meant HE had to change his game (and sacrifice his stats) for the better of the TEAM. Which he did... and the rest was history.

Perhaps that's yet another reason why Jordan's "team" success was so superior to LeBron's... and why LeBron fans hype up all the talent MJ had around him while dismissing the boatloads of All Star/All NBA/HOF talent around LeBron as old, or scrubs and bums... which is (yet) another reason why James isn't on Mike's level. Jordan KNEW in order to win on a GOAT level he had to give a little on his end to get the best out of his teammates. LeBron has never sacrificed his game to elevate the play of his teammates.

Point being, IF all these guys were washed up scrubs and tomato cans there's a very good chance it's because LeBron did nothing to bring out the best in them. The numbers back it up anyway, as do the results (ie; 4 losses to lower seeds, 6 Finals losses, etc).

 

[dtgold88]

you go to extremes to try and prove your point. Lebron at 40 with Luka and Jordan with Wash
apples and oranges
There are 100 other things that compare that you could point to

Try and follow thread before jumping in.....Not really going to any extremes. In fact, I don't think MJ deserves much criticism for his time in Washington. But IF one wants to rip Lebron for a series he played really well at age 40 when that Luka fellow you mention shit the bed? OK. Fair game.

 

[dtgold88]

Bronsexuals are the worst double talkers in sports history. Most disingenuous fanbase of all time.

You should try and follow the thread and read the comments before replying. There are no Bronsexuals in this thread. Not one person has even claimed Lebron is the GOAT. Only push back is those (or so far 1) who tinks not even a discussion and MJ the clear GOAT.

Jordansexuals here? Yep. are you one, too?

 

[MAGA2024]

Riiiiiight....uber competive MJ at only 38-39 did not care about winning games. All he wanted to do was evaluate. Just not the same with no Pippen holding his hand, eh?

Idea you call anyone stupid - never mind you have cried about insults hurled at you - is like Augustus Gloop telling a kid he's overweight.

You didn't read my post thoroughly. I clearly said that when he got ON the court he wanted to win. Who doesn't???? But winning Championships and MVP's wasn't the reason he returned to the Wizards.

So if you're not being stupid on purpose then perhaps you ought to learn how to comprehend what you read before hitting the reply button.

 

[dtgold88]

Worse yet these clowns give LeBron MORE credit for LOSING than they give Jordan (or any other legend) for WINNING.

This is why Bron Stans are by far the worst. They've lowered the standard of GOAT debates to such an insane degree. No other consensus GOAT in any other sport has a losing record in their championship rounds but we're supposed to make an exception in basketball for LeBron because...reasons. They've made losing acceptable as long as you have nice stats. But of course they would never apply this standard to anyone else.

Winning used to be the standard. Then these clowns came along to try to desperately lower the standard when their hero's Finals losses started piling up.

I guess, yes, you wanted to be added to the MJ nuthuggers in this thread? OK....send your dues to the MAGA guy.

 

[dtgold88]

It's just strikes me as funny when LeBron fans downplay LeBron's teammates to hype-up LeBron, while at the same time building up Jordan's teammates to diminish Jordan.

Larry Hughes wasn't healthy physically or mentally with the Cavs YET in Washington he was a stud? Sure, okay... but what about all these guys:

- Shaq in 2009 was an All NBA / All Star; the following season with LeBron his numbers plummeted
- Antawn Jamison went from 22/9 to obscurity once he teammed with James
- Bosh, Love, Westbrook, Ray Allen... they all saw their production plummet playing alongside LeBron
- Brandon Ingram became an All Star AND Most Improved Player as soon as he left LeBron
- Kyle Kuzma saw his numbers plummet alongside LeBron, then shoot back up once he left LeBron
- Big Z went from a 2-time All Star to just another guy alongside LeBron
- Luka led the Mavs past three (3!!) HIGHER seeds en route to the Finals last year; this year (with LeBron) he lost to a lower seed in the first-round

But do you know whose "stats/production/efficiency" never missed a beat despite sharing the same court with all that talent?

Exactly. LeBron.

Coicidence?

Hardly.

LeBron simply does not make "everyone around him better" as we've been led to believe... and Defensively he hasn't inspired his teammates in a decade because he himself (as the leader who should be setting the tone/example) doesN't play inspired Defense..

If you are a teammate of LeBron's you are required to change your game and adapt to HIS game (unless you're a one-dimensional role-player type, like a spot-up shooter)... which in itself is extremely odd since all we've heard is how versatile and "all around" brilliant James is supposed to be.

On the flipside Jordan had to adapt to a new system (ie; Triangle Offense) which meant HE had to change his game (and sacrifice his stats) for the better of the TEAM. Which he did... and the rest was history.

Perhaps that's yet another reason why Jordan's "team" success was so superior to LeBron's... and why LeBron fans hype up all the talent MJ had around him while dismissing the boatloads of All Star/All NBA/HOF talent around LeBron as old, or scrubs and bums... which is (yet) another reason why James isn't on Mike's level. Jordan KNEW in order to win on a GOAT level he had to give a little on his end to get the best out of his teammates. LeBron has never sacrificed his game to elevate the play of his teammates.

Point being, IF all these guys were washed up scrubs and tomato cans there's a very good chance it's because LeBron did nothing to bring out the best in them. The numbers back it up anyway, as do the results (ie; 4 losses to lower seeds, 6 Finals losses, etc).

No Lebron fans here. Stopped reading after another lie by you.

Sorry you wasted all that time but you know the rules. If you'd like those pearls of wisdom to be seen please repost...without lying.

 

[dtgold88]

You didn't read my post thoroughly. I clearly said that when he got ON the court he wanted to win. Who doesn't???? But winning Championships and MVP's wasn't the reason he returned to the Wizards.

So if you're not being stupid on purpose then perhaps you ought to learn how to comprehend what you read before hitting the reply button.

I read it entirely and understood......He went to the Wiz knowing he'd be getting ON the court and while on the court he tried to win. But couldn't.

Be nice if you were more self aware and knew you were a walking contradiction.

 

[MAGA2024]

Dude.

Nobody is actually trying to knock Jordan for not being a dominant player at 39 with the Wizards.

That would be stupid.

You know what else is stupid?

Trying to knock LeBron for losing as a 40 year old to a team that was every bit as good as his in a series where the best player on his team really did not play anywhere near his best.

Or trying to knock LeBron for losing to the Spurs in 2007.

Interesting how you want to tout Larry Hughes accolades with the Wizards, but fail to mention that he was a shell of that player with Cleveland. He struggled with injuries, family tragedy and just didn’t play well compared to his Wizards tenure.

He only averaged 14.9 PPG in 2007 and continued to decline after that.

Drew Gooden and Big Z?

You can’t be serious. You really believe either of these guys were 3rd options on a championship caliber team?

The Cavs second leading scorer from that playoff run averaged 12.6 PPG.

Cmon now.

There you go (again) making excuses for LeBron when Vegas and all the analysts and experts had the Lakers winning the series AND you yourself (I think it was you?) claimed that the two teams were equal.

Well... if two "equal" teams play and one of them puts a beat-down on the other team in just 5 games, WHY do you believe that shouldn't be held against the team/players on the losing side? With two equal teams you'd expect a very long, very close, very competition series, no?

So why does LeBron (once again) get a pass... and BTW, Luka averaged 30/7/6 on 45%/35%/89% in the series, which is better than anyone on the T'Wolves put up.

As for the 2007 Cavs, I addressed that in my last post.

 

[MAGA2024]

No Lebron fans here. Stopped reading after another lie by you.

Sorry you wasted all that time but you know the rules. If you'd like those pearls of wisdom to be seen please repost...without lying.

You read it, alright... you simply have NO retort for the truth and facts I posted.

You're not a LeBron fan YET you've got a "Cavs" player as your avatar AND you've just spent 10 pages vehemently defending him (while dismissing and downplaying Jordan).

LOLOL... riiiight guy. Tell it to the hand.

 

[dtgold88]

You read it, alright... you simply have NO retort for the truth and facts I posted.

You're not a LeBron fan YET you've got a "Cavs" player as your avatar AND you've just spent 10 pages vehemently defending him (while dismissing and downplaying Jordan).

LOLOL... riiiight guy. Tell it to the hand.

I have self control and, no, I did not read it. I can sometimes have a conversation with the incredibly irrational with an agenda like you but after so many lies I need to draw a line.

As to Lebron if you've read my comments not only am I not a fan I really don't like the guy. Too much of a drama queen and narcissist for me. But, sure, I can appreciate how great he was (in conversation for GOAT) and he helped the team I cheer for win a title I never thought I'd see.

I say this knowing that you might be confused by someone being able to see both sides in a discussion but for the rational and objective with no agenda it can be done.

 

[MAGA2024]

I read it entirely and understood......He went to the Wiz knowing he'd be getting ON the court and while on the court he tried to win. But couldn't.

Be nice if you were more self aware and knew you were a walking contradiction.

He joined a team that won 19-games the previous year and you think his goal was winning Championships, MVP's and Scoring titles while he was playing?

lolol

NO... his goal was to assess the talent and mindset of his team first-hand (ie; battling with them on the court) in order to determine which players are keepers and which are expendable, since he was an owner of the team.

What exactly are you trying to say/prove??

You want to hold it against 38-40 year old Jordan for not leading a 19-win team (before his arrival) to the playoffs YET you want to dismiss LeBron for not making the playoffs his first two years, for losing to lower seeds 4 times, for not making the playoffs in 2022 (with SIGNIFICANTLY more talent around him than Jordan had on the Wizards, etc).

It would be nice if you were more self aware and knew you were a walking contradiction.

 

[MAGA2024]

Try and follow thread before jumping in.....Not really going to any extremes. In fact, I don't think MJ deserves much criticism for his time in Washington. But IF one wants to rip Lebron for a series he played really well at age 40 when that Luka fellow you mention shit the bed? OK. Fair game.

HAHAHAHA... 30/7/6 on 45%/35%/88% = shitting the bed YET Jordan played alongside teammates who were vastly superior to all of his competition.

Sure thing... SMH