Nate Silver does the math: SGA is playing like MJ

[MAGA2024]

Nope. The facts support our claim (they are both GOAT worthy with MJ slightly ahead) more than yours. You just focus on the facts that support MJ and ignore the ones that support LeBron.

Also LOL that you now claim you haven't been 'insulting' also. It's a sports talk forum, the culture involves some 'rough language'. Maybe it's too rough for you.

Of course you/others have YET to lay out those "facts" that support your opinion.

I'm still waiting...

PS: I'm new to this board, so trying to be civil. If you want insults and trash talk I'm down with that too, skippy. Bring it on.

 

[MAGA2024]

It's what I said (facts). No Pippen to hold his hand MJ never even won a playoff series. MJ leaves? No worries, they still won 55. Any team Lebron ever leave who won 55 the next season?

Please show me the "facts" that prove Pippen was holding Jordan's hand (lol)... and IF that's the case, why is Jordan the GOAT candidate and not Pippen?

You didn't think that statement through... back to the drawing board for you.

 

[dtgold88]

I'm not penalizing LeBron for the 3rd seed... I'm say that AS THE 3rd seed he should not have gotten embarrassed by a lower seed. Again... had these two "equal" teams (your words) got 7 games and the Lakers fell short that's one thing. But it didn't... it went just 5 games AND the T'Wolves made it look easy.

Yes, like it or not that IS a stain on LeBron (in terms of GOAT talk) "because" it never happened to Jordan.

...and comparing the Wizards roster (withOut Jordan) to the 2025 Lakers withOut LeBron is not winning you any points either, FTR. You give Wizards Jordan a Top 3-5 player in the game AND another guy dropping 20/5/6 and you would be able to bet your life he's not getting "embarrassed" in the first round like LeBron just did.

So better to just be the older MJ and not even get to the playoffs?

It's funny you think that's OK to say but then not acknowledge Lebron took #2 Mo Williams to Finals and lost when without a Pippen holding his hand MJ never sniffed a Finals (not even ECF).

 

[MAGA2024]

Again.,...for me to read your comment you have to answer the questions i asked to start off your post. No need to keep going if you wont as I wont see it.

Here they are again.....
I get questions scare you but who were his HOF level teammates in Lebron's first trip to Finals in 2007 and then 1st series vs. GS other than Kyrie in Game 1 only? Also, how far did he take his Washington teams or any team without Pippen holding his hand

don't be afraid little fella. Try to answer.

You won't read my comment BECAUSE you have no retort BECAUSE there is no retort: Getting embarrassed in the first round by a team that is equal to (or not as good as) you IS a mark against you. Period, no if, ands or buts about it.

All your other questions have been answered AND thoroughly debunked previously. Keep up.

 

[dtgold88]

You won't read my comment BECAUSE you have no retort BECAUSE there is no retort: Getting embarrassed in the first round by a team that is equal to (or not as good as) you IS a mark against you. Period, no if, ands or buts about it.

All your other questions have been answered AND thoroughly debunked previously. Keep up.

No I gave you the exact reason why I wont read. You listed a dozen or so questions in a recent post and I answered all of them. I have asked you 3-4 and you are scared to answer any of them. You need to bunk up, not be afraid and answer at least a couple.

Come on little fella....you can do it. I'm pulling for ya.

 

[MAGA2024]

So better to just be the older MJ and not even get to the playoffs?

It's funny you think that's OK to say but then not acknowledge Lebron took #2 Mo Williams to Finals and lost when without a Pippen holding his hand MJ never sniffed a Finals (not even ECF).

Who said anything about "better"?

Jordan didn't return to the 19-win Wizards to "win". He came back because he was part owner and had a financial interest in the success of the team... so he returned to try and teach that young team "how" to win.

An entirely different set of circumstances than LeBron... but regardless, Jordan missed the Playoffs twice in his career. LeBron 4 times.

YET anothe huge edge for Jordan.

 

[MAGA2024]

No I gave you the exact reason why I wont read. You listed a dozen or so questions in a recent post and I answered all of them. I have asked you 3-4 and you are scared to answer any of them. You need to bunk up, not be afraid and answer at least a couple.

Come on little fella....you can do it. I'm pulling for ya.

Your questions have already been addressed, tough guy. lol

Keep up.

 

[dtgold88]

Who said anything about "better"?

Jordan didn't return to the 19-win Wizards to "win". He came back because he was part owner and had a financial interest in the success of the team... so he returned to try and teach that young team "how" to win.

An entirely different set of circumstances than LeBron... but regardless, Jordan missed the Playoffs twice in his career. LeBron 4 times.

YET anothe huge edge for Jordan.

Really? Uber competitive MJ did not want to win? Again, when you go next level irrational I have to stop reading. That was priceless.

 

[dtgold88]

Your questions have already been addressed, tough guy. lol

Keep up.

Actually they haven't, especially the ones that were asked today.

*Who were Lebron's HOF level teammates for the 2007 Finals?
*Who were his HOF level teammates in the 2015 Finals after Kyire went down in Game 1?

 

[MAGA2024]

Let's take a look at the"talent" on those 2007 Cavs, shall we?

Larry Hughes: Signed with the Cavs in 2006 (the previous season) after dropping 22/6/5, leading the league in Steals, finishing 1st Team All Defense and 6th in DPOY in his last year with the Wizards. By all acounts he was an up-and-coming star when he joined the Cavs.

Big Z: An All Star in 2003 and 2005, and one of the best Offensive Rebounders in the game.

Drew Gooden: 25 year old PF averaged 11 and 9 that season.

Gibson, Pavlovic and Damon Jones shooting 42%, 41%, and 39% from long-range, respectively... AND those 2007 Cavs finished #4 overall in Defense that year.

No, they weren't on the same level as the Spurs BUT they were clearly better than the 41-win Wizards and 41-win Nets they beat in the first 2 rounds of the (very weak) Eastern Conference, and yes, they DO deserve credit for beating the Pistons in the ECF.

But let's put to rest the MYTH that LeBron carried scrubs and tomato cans to the Finals that year 'cause it's just not true.

 

[tlance]

So they were equals YET the T'Wolves beat the Lakers (rather easily) in 5 games.

Again, how is that NOT a mark against LeBron, as he is part of the team??? Did Jordan ever lose to an equal / worst team? No he didn't.

He sure did when he was 39

 

[MAGA2024]

Really? Uber competitive MJ did not want to win? Again, when you go next level irrational I have to stop reading. That was priceless.

Were you even old enough to know what was going on "in reality" at that time?

Jordan was part owner and the President of Operations of the Wizards at the time, and he felt the best way to evaluate his team (and teach them the intangibles it takes to win) was to be an active player again. Of course when he was ON the court he "wanted" to win... but that's not why he returned:

"Even though I was soothing an itch that I had, I also thought I was being innovative in my job by going down and evaluating the talent firsthand. I thought it would be a good idea to play against them, see what their tendencies were and what we were playing for. But at the same time, I became more critical of them because of the way I played the game and the way I'd approached the game, and the players didn't respond to that..," Jordan said in a one/one interview with Marvin Shanken in 2005.

Winning Championships, padding his stats, and achieving individual accolades/awards was not his motivation for returning.

Stop being stupid.

 

[MAGA2024]

Actually they haven't, especially the ones that were asked today.

*Who were Lebron's HOF level teammates for the 2007 Finals?
*Who were his HOF level teammates in the 2015 Finals after Kyire went down in Game 1?

He LOST both series... what's your point???

Oh wait, you want to give him credit for losing YET discredit Jordan for winning.

Gotcha...!

SMH

 

[MAGA2024]

He sure did when he was 39

Remind me who was the Top 3-5 player and the 20/5/6 #3 man that 39-year old Jordan played alongside?

 

[dtgold88]

Let's take a look at the"talent" on those 2007 Cavs, shall we?

Larry Hughes: Signed with the Cavs in 2006 (the previous season) after dropping 22/6/5, leading the league in Steals, finishing 1st Team All Defense and 6th in DPOY in his last year with the Wizards. By all acounts he was an up-and-coming star when he joined the Cavs.

Big Z: An All Star in 2003 and 2005, and one of the best Offensive Rebounders in the game.

Drew Gooden: 25 year old PF averaged 11 and 9 that season.

Gibson, Pavlovic and Damon Jones shooting 42%, 41%, and 39% from long-range, respectively... AND those 2007 Cavs finished #4 overall in Defense that year.

No, they weren't on the same level as the Spurs BUT they were clearly better than the 41-win Wizards and 41-win Nets they beat in the first 2 rounds of the (very weak) Eastern Conference, and yes, they DO deserve credit for beating the Pistons in the ECF.

But let's put to rest the MYTH that LeBron carried scrubs and tomato cans to the Finals that year 'cause it's just not true.

were you being serious with that? Larry Hughes could not stay healthy physically and mentally with the Cavs. Missed most of the playoff run so the starting guards were Eric Snow and Sasha Pavlovic.....did you really try to play up Pavloivic, Jones and Gibson who all did pretty much nothing in their careers especially with no Lebron? And 11 and 9 for Gooden? Really?

FYI, there is no need to compare to the Wizards the comparison is the Bulls teams and why Lebron could not pull off a win with this sadsack group compared to MJ having Pippen to hold his hand and others.

These are scrubs and tomato cans and yes, he carried them to the Finals.

 

[dtgold88]

Were you even old enough to know what was going on "in reality" at that time?

Jordan was part owner and the President of Operations of the Wizards at the time, and he felt the best way to evaluate his team (and teach them the intangibles it takes to win) was to be an active player again. Of course when he was ON the court he "wanted" to win... but that's not why he returned:

"Even though I was soothing an itch that I had, I also thought I was being innovative in my job by going down and evaluating the talent firsthand. I thought it would be a good idea to play against them, see what their tendencies were and what we were playing for. But at the same time, I became more critical of them because of the way I played the game and the way I'd approached the game, and the players didn't respond to that..," Jordan said in a one/one interview with Marvin Shanken in 2005.

Winning Championships, padding his stats, and achieving individual accolades/awards was not his motivation for returning.

Stop being stupid.

Riiiiiight....uber competive MJ at only 38-39 did not care about winning games. All he wanted to do was evaluate. Just not the same with no Pippen holding his hand, eh?

Idea you call anyone stupid - never mind you have cried about insults hurled at you - is like Augustus Gloop telling a kid he's overweight.

 

[dtgold88]

He LOST both series... what's your point???

Oh wait, you want to give him credit for losing YET discredit Jordan for winning.

Gotcha...!

SMH

My point is you claimed he had HOF level teammates when he was in the Finals. So once again....
1) who were they in 2007
2) who were they in 2015 once Kyrie went down in game 1?

Or you could man up and admit you lied?

 

[tlance]

Remind me who was the Top 3-5 player and the 20/5/6 #3 man that 39-year old Jordan played alongside?

Dude.

Nobody is actually trying to knock Jordan for not being a dominant player at 39 with the Wizards.

That would be stupid.

You know what else is stupid?

Trying to knock LeBron for losing as a 40 year old to a team that was every bit as good as his in a series where the best player on his team really did not play anywhere near his best.

Or trying to knock LeBron for losing to the Spurs in 2007.

Interesting how you want to tout Larry Hughes accolades with the Wizards, but fail to mention that he was a shell of that player with Cleveland. He struggled with injuries, family tragedy and just didn’t play well compared to his Wizards tenure.

He only averaged 14.9 PPG in 2007 and continued to decline after that.

Drew Gooden and Big Z?

You can’t be serious. You really believe either of these guys were 3rd options on a championship caliber team?

The Cavs second leading scorer from that playoff run averaged 12.6 PPG.

Cmon now.

 

[HawkFan]

Riiiiiight....uber competive MJ at only 38-39 did not care about winning games. All he wanted to do was evaluate. Just not the same with no Pippen holding his hand, eh?

Idea you call anyone stupid - never mind you have cried about insults hurled at you - is like Augustus Gloop telling a kid he's overweight.

you go to extremes to try and prove your point. Lebron at 40 with Luka and Jordan with Wash
apples and oranges
There are 100 other things that compare that you could point to

 

[tlance]

you go to extremes to try and prove your point. Lebron at 40 with Luka and Jordan with Wash
apples and oranges
There are 100 other things that compare that you could point to

Well…

The reason that is a valid comparison is because the other dude keeps trying to say that LeBron losing this season at age 40 is a stain on his resume.

That is legit crazy.

There is nothing LeBron can do at this point in his career that would hurt his legacy.