Nate Silver does the math: SGA is playing like MJ

[Stakesarehigh]

Back to the original thread, Shai is one of 2 players in the league that can remind you of Jordan, the other is Edwards. Shai’s mid-range game is the closest thing to MJ since though.

Agree 100

 

[MAGA2024]

I am not saying the Wolves were a superior team. They were equals.

The Lakers won 1 more game than the Wolves.

And if we are going to start tossing blame around, many Lakers failed to live up to expectations in that series. Nine more so than rookie coach JJ Reddick. LeBron is not on that list.

So they were equals YET the T'Wolves beat the Lakers (rather easily) in 5 games.

Again, how is that NOT a mark against LeBron, as he is part of the team??? Did Jordan ever lose to an equal / worst team? No he didn't.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

So they were equals YET the T'Wolves beat the Lakers (rather easily) in 5 games.

Again, how is that NOT a mark against LeBron, as he is part of the team??? Did Jordan ever lose to an equal / worst team? No he didn't.

How did the Wizards do when Jordan was 39

 

[HawkFan]

Had to stop after that first comment as you have gone well beyond irrational standards. are you really ripping 40-year-old Lebron for only getting the Lakers into playoffs as a 3 seed. Before I can go further, please enlighten me how far MJ took Washington as a 38 and then 39-year-old. If you are not afraid to answer that then please tell me how far his teams ever went in his career without Pippen to hold his hand.

werent the Lakers a .500 team prior to Luka?

Jordan's time with Wash he went .500 and .451, and it's not like the teams were stacked.

I agree the 2 are close, but I give the nod to Jordan for GOAT

 

[Stakesarehigh]

werent the Lakers a .500 team prior to Luka?

Jordan's time with Wash he went .500 and .451, and it's not like the teams were stacked.

I agree the 2 are close, but I get the nod to Jordan for GOAT

No one would argue with you for that take.

 

[msgkings322]

werent the Lakers a .500 team prior to Luka?

Jordan's time with Wash he went .500 and .451, and it's not like the teams were stacked.

I agree the 2 are close, but I get the nod to Jordan for GOAT

This ^^^ is where most of us are. This clown can't let it go though, he thinks it's a huge gap and that's stupid.

 

[MAGA2024]

Now that is just plain dumb.

Not top 10?

Please.

1 title with the rest of his resume would easily be top 10. Maybe even top 5.

You have some good info. No need for the hyperbole and extreme exaggeration.

lol... in a "hypothetical" anything goes... just like your claim that Jordan wouldn't have led the 07 Cavs to the Finals.

You have no clue if that's true or not, so it's completely irrelevant to the discussion.

BUT... on that note, we DO have some facts to support my hypothetical about LeBron: In the past 7 years (playing in the tougher Conference) he's only made the Finals 1 time "and" he's only been out of the first-round one other time. Extrapolate that over 22 years and James would have made the Finals just 3 times (vs. 10), and unless he won all 3 times as the best player (ie; Finals MVP) he wouldn't be viewed as a Top 10 player right now... or maybe borderline Top 10 at best.

 

[dtgold88]

werent the Lakers a .500 team prior to Luka?

Jordan's time with Wash he went .500 and .451, and it's not like the teams were stacked.

I agree the 2 are close, but I give the nod to Jordan for GOAT

No clue what LA record was pre Luka, but didn't AD and/or Lebron miss some games?

But I don't necessarily think Lebron is the GOAT and easy to make a case for MJ. Only absurd comments are those (well one guy) who thinks no case can be made for Lebron and not close.

 

[dtgold88]

If you really have to ask that question then you really shouldn't be offering an opinion on this topic... with respect.

Rookie" Jordan inherited a 21-win Bulls teams (which he led to 38 wins) and then faced the 59-win Bucks team with 2 All NBA players in the first-round.

Second and third year Jordan (with Charles Oakley as the second best player on the team) faced the GOAT level Celtics in the first-round (with 5 HOFERS and 3 All Defenders on the team).

Enter "rookie" Scottie Pippen and his 8-Points, 6-Rebounds and 4-Assists a game off the bench... and with just that little bit of support Jordan took the Bulls to 50 wins and the second-round.

You trying to say it was due to Pippen?

Yeah... I think not.

I'm not just trying to say I am saying without Pippen to hold his hand MJ never even won a playoff series.....in his entire career. Pippen and no MJ? 55 win season and won a playoff series.

Lie, dance, deflect, move goal posts you cannot get around this fact. But it's funny watching you try.

 

[dtgold88]

So "hypotheticals" is your argument now??

Okay, how about this one: There is ZERO chance LeBron makes anywhere close to 10 Finals "appearances" if he played his entire career in the tougher (Western) Conference, and therefore he wouldn't even be considered Top 10 all-time today.

I like hypotheticals too, but unfortunately they carry zero (0) weight in the world of what happens in reality.

OK but here's the thing.......MJ has never even won a playoff series with no Pippen but with Mo Williams as his #2 he was getting to the Finals?

 

[dtgold88]

So Pippen is the GOAT... or Pippen > LeBron???

Which is it?

lol

It's what I said (facts). No Pippen to hold his hand MJ never even won a playoff series. MJ leaves? No worries, they still won 55. Any team Lebron ever leave who won 55 the next season?

 

[MAGA2024]

This ^^^ is where most of us are. This clown can't let it go though, he thinks it's a huge gap and that's stupid.

No need for insults SIMPLY BECAUSE you/others canNot refute the facts and substance I laid out throughout this thread, showing conclusively that LeBron truly is "not" close to Jordan.

You/others can have your opionion... but the facts suggest otherwise.

 

[dtgold88]

No need for insults SIMPLY BECAUSE you/others canNot refute the facts and substance I laid out throughout this thread, showing conclusively that LeBron truly is "not" close to Jordan.

You/others can have your opionion... but the facts suggest otherwise.

Man, not sure if "ya gotta love this forum" or "oh, the irony" works better here.,

 

[msgkings322]

No need for insults SIMPLY BECAUSE you/others canNot refute the facts and substance I laid out throughout this thread, showing conclusively that LeBron truly is "not" close to Jordan.

You/others can have your opionion... but the facts suggest otherwise.

Nope. The facts support our claim (they are both GOAT worthy with MJ slightly ahead) more than yours. You just focus on the facts that support MJ and ignore the ones that support LeBron.

Also LOL that you now claim you haven't been 'insulting' also. It's a sports talk forum, the culture involves some 'rough language'. Maybe it's too rough for you.

 

[MAGA2024]

Being the better passer and rebounder and more efficient shooter (not volume stats) doesn't count?

How about being able to take a far less talented team to the Finals?

"Better" Passer??? How so... because he deferred more of the Scoring to his teammates, and as a result racked up a couple more Assists per game than Jordan? What's the goal of the game? Right, to "outScore" your opponent. So who is more valuable... the guy who is ALWAYS carrying the Scoring load for his team, and as such, never lost more than 2 games in a row for an entire decade and went undefeated in the Finals "or" the guy who often defers the Scoring to "lesser talented" teammates, and as a result owns 4 losses to lower seeds and 6 losses in the Finals?

Doesn't seem "close" to me. It's Jordan all the way by a longshot.

Rebounding??? Hmmm... so a 6'9 Forward averaging one (1) more Rebound per game than a 6'6 Guard is noteworthy?? How about Offensive Rebounds? Jordan actually averages more of those per game AND Offensive Rebounds are far more important and far tougher to get than Defensive Rebounds.

More Efficient "shooter". No, he clearly is not. LeBron, as noted with facts in this thread, "shoots" 38% from beyond 3-feet from the basket for his career (36% in the playoffs). LeBron is a TERRIBLE "shooter"... he just inflated his overall FG% with all the baskets he's made at the rim... and over the past 5-8 years (especially) the game has changed to where all the Bigs are on the perimeter shooting jumpers vs. in Jordan's day when the Bigs all played in/around the paint to protect the basket.

Sure... LeBron gets props for getting "to" the Finals in 2007, and he gets major props for beating the 2016 Warriors. But that's not enough to offset his numerous other Playoff disappointments/failures (again, as I highlighted throroughly in this thread) NOR does it match (or come close to matching) Jordan's "team success".

 

[MAGA2024]

Had to stop after that first comment as you have gone well beyond irrational standards. are you really ripping 40-year-old Lebron for only getting the Lakers into playoffs as a 3 seed. Before I can go further, please enlighten me how far MJ took Washington as a 38 and then 39-year-old. If you are not afraid to answer that then please tell me how far his teams ever went in his career without Pippen to hold his hand.

Look... you can twist and squirm all you want but the fact remains LeBron had a top 3-5 player in the game (and another 20/5/6 guy) by his side and his team got EMBARRASSED by another team you yourself called "equal" to the Lakers.

So again... how is getting STOMPED on by a team that's equal to you NOT a mark against the team, and therefore the players themselves? And futhermore, why is it Vegas and all the analysts unanimously picked the Lakers to win yet now, AFTER they got spanked, the LeBron fans want to claim the loss was justified??

lol... talk about irrational! You are grasping at straws.

 

[dtgold88]

"Better" Passer??? How so... because he deferred more of the Scoring to his teammates, and as a result racked up a couple more Assists per game than Jordan? What's the goal of the game? Right, to "outScore" your opponent. So who is more valuable... the guy who is ALWAYS carrying the Scoring load for his team, and as such, never lost more than 2 games in a row for an entire decade and went undefeated in the Finals "or" the guy who often defers the Scoring to "lesser talented" teammates, and as a result owns 4 losses to lower seeds and 6 losses in the Finals?

Doesn't seem "close" to me. It's Jordan all the way by a longshot.

Rebounding??? Hmmm... so a 6'9 Forward averaging one (1) more Rebound per game than a 6'6 Guard is noteworthy?? How about Offensive Rebounds? Jordan actually averages more of those per game AND Offensive Rebounds are far more important and far tougher to get than Defensive Rebounds.

More Efficient "shooter". No, he clearly is not. LeBron, as noted with facts in this thread, "shoots" 38% from beyond 3-feet from the basket for his career (36% in the playoffs). LeBron is a TERRIBLE "shooter"... he just inflated his overall FG% with all the baskets he's made at the rim... and over the past 5-8 years (especially) the game has changed to where all the Bigs are on the perimeter shooting jumpers vs. in Jordan's day when the Bigs all played in/around the paint to protect the basket.

Sure... LeBron gets props for getting "to" the Finals in 2007, and he gets major props for beating the 2016 Warriors. But that's not enough to offset his numerous other Playoff disappointments/failures (again, as I highlighted throroughly in this thread) NOR does it match (or come close to matching) Jordan's "team success".

It's a lot easier to just stop reading your comments as soon as you go completely off the rails. Happened early in the last one. He's a better passer because, yes, is far more willing to get a teammate a better shot.

Stopped reading when you would not acknowledge that so again in future it's cool to go completely off the rails but no need to keep replying as I wont see it.

 

[dtgold88]

Look... you can twist and squirm all you want but the fact remains LeBron had a top 3-5 player in the game (and another 20/5/6 guy) by his side and his team got EMBARRASSED by another team you yourself called "equal" to the Lakers.

So again... how is getting STOMPED on by a team that's equal to you NOT a mark against the team, and therefore the players themselves? And futhermore, why is it Vegas and all the analysts unanimously picked the Lakers to win yet now, AFTER they got spanked, the LeBron fans want to claim the losse was justified??

lol... talk about irrational! You are grasping at straws.

Again.,...for me to read your comment you have to answer the questions i asked to start off your post. No need to keep going if you wont as I wont see it.

Here they are again.....
I get questions scare you but who were his HOF level teammates in Lebron's first trip to Finals in 2007 and then 1st series vs. GS other than Kyrie in Game 1 only? Also, how far did he take his Washington teams or any team without Pippen holding his hand

don't be afraid little fella. Try to answer.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

lol... in a "hypothetical" anything goes... just like your claim that Jordan wouldn't have led the 07 Cavs to the Finals.

You have no clue if that's true or not, so it's completely irrelevant to the discussion.

BUT... on that note, we DO have some facts to support my hypothetical about LeBron: In the past 7 years (playing in the tougher Conference) he's only made the Finals 1 time "and" he's only been out of the first-round one other time. Extrapolate that over 22 years and James would have made the Finals just 3 times (vs. 10), and unless he won all 3 times as the best player (ie; Finals MVP) he wouldn't be viewed as a Top 10 player right now... or maybe borderline Top 10 at best.

How did the Wizards do when Jordan was 39

 

[MAGA2024]

You just tried to penalize 40-year-old Lebron for only getting his team to playoffs as the 3 seed but losing round 1, but cannot penalize a younger MJ in a very weak East that you tried to call much tougher.

You are a walking double standard......also lied and got caught. Again.

I'm not penalizing LeBron for the 3rd seed... I'm say that AS THE 3rd seed he should not have gotten embarrassed by a lower seed. Again... had these two "equal" teams (your words) got 7 games and the Lakers fell short that's one thing. But it didn't... it went just 5 games AND the T'Wolves made it look easy.

Yes, like it or not that IS a stain on LeBron (in terms of GOAT talk) "because" it never happened to Jordan.

...and comparing the Wizards roster (withOut Jordan) to the 2025 Lakers withOut LeBron is not winning you any points either, FTR. You give Wizards Jordan a Top 3-5 player in the game AND another guy dropping 20/5/6 and you would be able to bet your life he's not getting "embarrassed" in the first round like LeBron just did.