Measuring the importance of each band member to his or her respective band

[gohusk]

And now that we're talking about jazz this is my favorite quote of all time:

"Miles Davis plays pretty well for a millionaire"

-Cecil Taylor

 

[gohusk]

You really can't break things down like this. Who does and doesn't get songwriting credits seems pretty arbitrary sometimes. Matthew Fisher wrote the organ melody for whiter shade of pale and he had to sue to finally get recognized for his contribution as a songwriter for that song. Mick Ronson played a huge part engineering Bowies first big albums (Hunky Dory, Ziggy, Man Who Sold the World) and I have a hard time believing that Bowie wrote his insane riffs on some of those songs. He also worked with Rick Wakeman on Life on Mars, gave him a basic framework he wanted, and Wakeman filled in the gaps. How much credit do those guys get? I'm not bashing on the guys that did end up getting the rights to the songs but the studio musicians are usually some of the best in the business and they bring A LOT without much recognition or compensation. They're the professionals in that industry in the truest sense of the word.

 

[blindbaby]

I definitely don't agree with that. Elvin Jones was just as good at playing drums as Coletrane was at playing sax/clarinet and just about everybody that started playing with Miles Davis ended up on the all time who's who of jazz list. Part of being a great bandleader is picking the best to play for/with you. Sure, the stuff with larger ensembles then there's a few seats you can fill with a competent session guy but both of those dudes released quite a bit of stuff with small ensembles.

Miles and Coltrane (and others of that stature) are who the people are primarily coming to see and hear and buy their recordings. I'm not trying to diminish the roles of others in the band as they were all equally important in the pure musical context (which I alluded to originally), but at the end of the day, it's still Miles and Coltrane who chose (and sometimes write) the predominance of the material they play live and record.

 

[gohusk]

Miles and Coltrane (and others of that stature) are who the people are primarily coming to see and hear and buy their recordings. I'm not trying to diminish the roles of others in the band as they were all equally important in the pure musical context (which I alluded to originally), but at the end of the day, it's still Miles and Coltrane who chose (and sometimes write) the predominance of the material they play live and record.

I disagree. Jazz albums weren't big sellers in the eras these guys were releasing in and the albums they did get big sales on were due to the quality of the product vs people buying a name. Miles Davis made some big money from Columbia but they signed him for the prestige and credibility of having Miles Davis with their label vs what he could produce in record sales. A Love Supreme sold huge but it's sales were way out of line with Coletranes other album sales (name me 3 other Coletrane albums off of the top of your head) and the reason it sold is because it's one of the most seminal albums of all time. These guys were competing with rock and roll which was built for mass consumption.

I guess my point is that jazz isn't a genre that a guy can sell albums from name recognition unless it's some abomination like Kenny G or something.

 

[blindbaby]

I disagree. Jazz albums weren't big sellers in the eras these guys were releasing in and the albums they did get big sales on were due to the quality of the product vs people buying a name. Miles Davis made some big money from Columbia but they signed him for the prestige and credibility of having Miles Davis with their label vs what he could produce in record sales. A Love Supreme sold huge but it's sales were way out of line with Coletranes other album sales (name me 3 other Coletrane albums off of the top of your head) and the reason it sold is because it's one of the most seminal albums of all time. These guys were competing with rock and roll which was built for mass consumption.

I guess my point is that jazz isn't a genre that a guy can sell albums from name recognition unless it's some abomination like Kenny G or something.

I can't say I really agree with what you're saying here, but I do see your point. At any rate, it's nice to see another jazz aficionado posting here.

 

[shopson67]

Jazz is just a bunch of guys playing different songs at the same time. They should all get equal credit.