Meaningless Things That Must Change Now

[nuraman00]

Does Stockton know about this competition? Because a a normal game you could be fouled a certain number of times and make them all where the other person misses. But to get 11 rebounds, Stockton would have to change his game. He’s gotten 10 rebounds in a game before, but I wouldn’t think that would mean that he would be Gobert in that instance. The time where he gets many rebounds is likely when other teammates didn’t or that there were so many misses and both got it. The first one to get to it isn’t really a competition though.

Thanks. The kind of competition I was thinking of was not during a real basketball game.

It would be Gobert, and Stockton.

And a 3rd player, would be dribbling and shooting shots around the court, as that 3rd player pleased. Meaning there wouldn't be any set spots to shoot from. The 3rd player would just shoot where and when he wanted, so it would be up to the rebounding contestants to be ready and aware, and box each other out to get to different spots of the floor. There could be long rebounds, medium rebounds, or short rebounds, who knows.

Do you think doing so in a real game would be a better testament to rebounding skills, with 8 other players on the court?

And yes, Stockton would know about the competition. He'd want to win it.

 

[MHSL82]

Thanks. The kind of competition I was thinking of was not during a real basketball game.

It would be Gobert, and Stockton.

And a 3rd player, would be dribbling and shooting shots around the court, as that 3rd player pleased. Meaning there wouldn't be any set spots to shoot from. The 3rd player would just shoot where and when he wanted, so it would be up to the rebounding contestants to be ready and aware, and box each other out to get to different spots of the floor. There could be long rebounds, medium rebounds, or short rebounds, who knows.

Do you think doing so in a real game would be a better testament to rebounding skills, with 8 other players on the court?

And yes, Stockton would know about the competition. He'd want to win it.

I just meant, would Stockton be giving up on steals trying to position for rebounds, can you rebound your own miss, etc.

I think Stockton would have a chance if the shots were taken from afar from the third player. Would Stockton get to use his elbows?

 

[nuraman00]

You‘re right. I’m not 100% serious. I was wondering you or @nuraman00 would point that out. I still think it’s silly. Do you have any sports pet peeves (or similar)?

My mind is different than others. For example, when people say that you have to make him beat you going to his left, I sometimes think, “no, you must make him lose by forcing him left. Hou never make someone beat you.” Yes, I know what they mean.

I don't want to point that out. I like these conversations.

As for my pet peeves:

1) Training Camp Stories.

2) The MLB has each team's "Fan Fest" a few days before pitchers and catchers report to spring training.

The Oakland A's take that step further, and have theirs in January.

Who is thinking and fully excited about MLB in January, or even February?

The MLB should have each team's fan fest 2-3 days before the regular season starts. That's the right amount of time for fans to be fully excited, and for 1/2 of the teams to still have enough time to fly out for their opening road games.

3) The best players in the NBA rarely guard each other anymore.

I only see it a few times a year, and only a few possessions per game, when it does happen. It used to happen for most of a game, in the 90s.

I got excited yesterday when Ben Simmons guarded Damian Lillard late in a game. That's the kind of matchup I want to see.

The best players can still guard the other team's best player, and play well on offense. They don't need to "save their energy", that's a fallacy.

They actually make the game harder, by not getting stops.

Plus by actually getting a stop, it will lead to easier offense anyways, and thus that defensive effort will pay off.

4) Studio analysis right after a championship, in predicting next season, is useless. Offseason moves haven't even been made. They make assumptions that teams will be similar, and base the finalists' prognosis off that.

 

[nuraman00]

I just meant, would Stockton be giving up on steals trying to position for rebounds, can you rebound your own miss, etc.

I think Stockton would have a chance if the shots were taken from afar from the third player. Would Stockton get to use his elbows?

Yes, of course he would get to use his elbows. Swinging elbows by Stockton, Barkley, or Malone, are why I watch them. I love it.

(Actually I rarely got to see the best of Barkley, I started watching him past his best period, but when I did watch, he still had those elbow moments.)

And in my exhibition competition, since it's not a real game, and there aren't other players trying to score, steals aren't something to be had.

 

[MHSL82]

3) The best players in the NBA rarely guard each other anymore.

I only see it a few times a year, and only a few possessions per game, when it does happen. It used to happen for most of a game, in the 90s.

I got excited yesterday when Ben Simmons guarded Damian Lillard late in a game. That's the kind of matchup I want to see.

The best players can still guard the other team's best player, and play well on offense. They don't need to "save their energy", that's a fallacy.

They actually make the game harder, by not getting stops.

Plus by actually getting a stop, it will lead to easier offense anyways, and thus that defensive effort will pay off.

It is the same concept as load management. If one offensive star defends the other, the other will take on someone easy on the other end to defend. This tires out one, where the other is relieved. And if the original offensive star is not great on defense, there’s no gain on that end but a negative in energy.

What does this have to do with load management? I want the NBA champion to be the team who battled for every game and one. But if a team goes all out in the regular season, chances are they will play against a team who rested and that may be the difference. Playing every game may improve your seeding or give you home court advantage (if that helps you) but it also might just result in the same spot but more tired. Would LeBron’s team still
make the Finals as the 2-8 seed, maybe. Play the same teams? Maybe. In fact, maybe the Conference Finals would be easier? But now, if they other team‘s stars played every game, they could be tired. So do you play “smart” because other teams will?

 

[nuraman00]

It is the same concept as load management. If one offensive star defends the other, the other will take on someone easy on the other end to defend. This tires out one, where the other is relieved. And if the original offensive star is not great on defense, there’s no gain on that end but a negative in energy.

What does this have to do with load management? I want the NBA champion to be the team who battled for every game and one. But if a team goes all out in the regular season, chances are they will play against a team who rested and that may be the difference. Playing every game may improve your seeding or give you home court advantage (if that helps you) but it also might just result in the same spot but more tired. Would LeBron’s team still
make the Finals as the 2-8 seed, maybe. Play the same teams? Maybe. In fact, maybe the Conference Finals would be easier? But now, if they other team‘s stars played every game, they could be tired. So do you play “smart” because other teams will?

LeBron's Cleveland teams rarely had a top seed. Seeding didn't matter.

Rest doesn't matter, there's 2 - 3 days between playoffs games.

You can look at teams that played a long series in the previous round, when competing against a team that had a short series. The extra games played is rarely a deciding factor in the next round. When the next round starts, a different set of circumstances and matchups present themselves. There have been so many cases where the previous round was a 7 game series, and they're playing a team that played a 4 or 5 game series, and the team that played the long series, rarely loses because they're tired, if they lose at all.

Yes, if the original offensive star is not great on defense, then sure, there's no gain.

But if he is good or better on defense, then there is a gain to be had. If you don't put someone good on the other team's best offensive player, then the score is closer than it needs to be, or that team will trail by more than they should.

It's like this. If there is a 5% chance at getting a stop by not putting the team's best defender, even if it happens to be a good offensive player, on the opposing star, or there is a 43% chance at getting a stop, then the better chance to win is to do the 43% at getting a stop. Yes, the differences are that great. If there's only going to be a 5% chance at success, with success defined as getting a stop, then it is not effective.

It's the difference between almost never getting a stop, and taking the ball out of the basket, or getting a stop, and creating some easier offense, which has even more beneficial consequences.

The sooner the game can be one of @MHSL82's 100% probability of victory circumstances, the better. Can only do that by getting stops.

Or the sooner they can not trail by as much.

Unless the team is full of mid 30 year olds, then they don't need to bench guys early during games and conserve. Although one could even see cases where it's the starters that suck, and the bench players who are playing better.

 

[nuraman00]

Yes, of course he would get to use his elbows. Swinging elbows by Stockton, Barkley, or Malone, are why I watch them. I love it.

(Actually I rarely got to see the best of Barkley, I started watching him past his best period, but when I did watch, he still had those elbow moments.)

And in my exhibition competition, since it's not a real game, and there aren't other players trying to score, steals aren't something to be had.

@MHSL82, so which rebounding contest between Stockton and Gobert do you like more? The in-game one?

Or the exhibition one where a 3rd player fires shots randomly, from random places on the floor?

BTW, in either contest, yes, elbows are allowed.

 

[nuraman00]

For most athletes, especially young ones, rest doesn't lead to better performance later on. Their bodies are different, they can play at a high level.

That's why they're professional athletes, and most of the rest of us aren't.

Not guarding the other team's best player, with a good defender, is equivalent to trying to dribble with one hand tied behind one's back. It results in a greater chance of failure.

The goal is to do things that increase the most success, not best success over output ratio.

And also, I've seen some teams where the starters suck and the bench plays better. So reducing the starters minutes doesn't even always mean that energy is being conserved, because the best unit may be composed of some bench players.

That's also why some teams have special closing lineups, that may not consist of the original starters. The coaches know that the best five man units, in some cases, aren't from the original starters. So in those cases, they are trying everything they can to win. They aren't trying for some success over output ratio.

 

[MHSL82]

@MHSL82, so which rebounding contest between Stockton and Gobert do you like more? The in-game one?

Or the exhibition one where a 3rd player fires shots randomly, from random places on the floor?

BTW, in either contest, yes, elbows are allowed.

Depends on where they shoot. I know you said randomly, but deep threes would result in more Stockton rebounds until Gobert adjusts. Before you say anything about Curry or Lillard being good from deep threes and therefore move in, you wouldn’t get rebounds from their shots. Just kidding.

 

[nuraman00]

Let's say the shooter is someone specific, Craig Hodges.

Also why can't Stockton get a rebound in the paint? Rajon Rondo and Westbrook can.

Here is Rondo getting a rebound over both Bryant and Odom.


This is my 2nd all time favorite guard rebounding play in the playoffs.

Here's my first:

This is the best play of Bryant's career.

He got a rebound over Duncan and Robinson.

Watch from 5:16 - 5:40, and continue until 6:03 to see the replay.

 

[MHSL82]

Also why can't Stockton get a rebound in the paint? Rajon Rondo and Westbrook can.

Stockton can and does in a game but under a scenario where a shooter shoots, the harder they miss, the farther the ball bounces, Stockton is quicker. Gobert is taller so closer to the basket.

 

[nuraman00]

Stockton can and does in a game but under a scenario where a shooter shoots, the harder they miss, the farther the ball bounces, Stockton is quicker. Gobert is taller so closer to the basket.

So hard misses would help Stockton rebound, rather than soft misses?

 

[nuraman00]

Did you like the clips I posted?

 

[MHSL82]

So hard misses would help Stockton rebound, rather than soft misses?

Soft misses would depend on what side of the rim. It could be around him or Gobert could have the advantage. So at worst, 50-50. But the hard misses, I think Stockton would be quicker.

Someone might think that would give Stockton the advantage to have 50-50 of one and then a higher chance of the other, but I think most misses would be somewhere between soft and hard and therefore the taller player would have the advantage.

 

[MHSL82]

Did you like the clips I posted?

Yes, a Fisher miss at the end is always good, even if they end up winning.

 

[MHSL82]

 

[nuraman00]

What has to happen for a game to be forfeited mid-game, not just called early?

 

[MHSL82]

What has to happen for a game to be forfeited mid-game, not just called early?

Oh, I’ve already accepted the non/statistical never happened before and not likely to be an accepted result options. I think referees would huddle and call something that did not result in a by rule forfeit. I just wanted to send in the most absurd examples.

 

[nuraman00]

Yes, but I'm still wondering, what situations have to happen for a team to forfeit a game?

 

[MHSL82]