Mayhew may franchise Suh

[RobBase]

If Swanson pans out (and he seems good so far), that's two 3rd rounders and an UDFA starting on our O-line. Could be worse.

 

[tpaulus_2]

No reason to state the obvious, so calling me a genius is unnecessary. As far as the deal -- I will pass on the cookie (I'm not much into sweets of any kind), but I will gladly accept the medal and trophy.

And the post I made wasn't taking a shot at Ebron -- it was made to take a shot at our GM, as one of the best drafts in recent memory, where pro bowl caliber players at multiple positions were drafted and huge contributors in multiple rounds were drafted and the Lions received basically no help from our draft picks.

Our "rookie of the year" for the Lions would probably be Travis Swanson, as he played pretty good in the little time he was in the lineup because of injuries. That is pretty sad when that is the best rookie we had on our squad after the draft class that was available.

With Detroit handing out some monster contracts for their stars -- we HAVE to hit on our draft picks to sustain any type of momentum at becoming a consistent winning franchise.

You know we get to keep those guys we drafted, right? It's not as if they were only on our team for this year, and then we have to give them back.

And beyond that, this was definitely a draft class selected with an eye on the future. I think Ebron and Van Noy were probably expected to contribute a fair amount more than they did, but Ebron underwhelmed and Van Noy was injured. Our 3rd round pick was picked to contribute next season, not this one. One of our 4th rounders was absolutely red-shirted and not expected to contribute, and the other played ok at nickel back before injury ended his season. Our 5th rounder, Reid, contributed as a rotational DT, our 6th rounder got what amounted to a medical redshirt, and our 7th rounder simply didn't pan out.

Every one of those guys except Freese will be back in camp next year competing for spots. 3 of them- Swanson, Van Noy, and Ebron, should be expected to be starters. Lawson could well end up being a 4th starter at nickel back. I expect Webster to bump Daryl Tapp out at DE, and T.J. Jones may well push Ross off the roster as a depth WR and PR/KR. Reid should continue to contribute as the 3rd or 4th DT.

With the exception of Ebron, with as little as guys like Van Noy, Swanson, Webster, Lawson and Jones all played it will almost be like getting a 2nd draft class of new players this year...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I guess, long story short there, is that it's foolish to declare last year's draft a failure after just one year.

Good teams don't draft with the intention that rookies will come in and play major roles. You're lamenting the impact of last years draft class while ignoring the fact that we won 11 games and we still get to keep all those guys we drafted. If you think they all peaked as rookies, and that they won't continue to get better, then I guess I really don't know what to tell you...

 

[broncosmitty]

Ebron is a total beast on Madden.

Mayhew learned the draft simulator from his mentor.

How's Van Noy? Nate Freese do great things as a rookie? (Prater leaves and we draft a kicker, just to draft a kicker, again. Im callin' it.)

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Good teams don't draft with the intention that rookies will come in and play major roles. You're lamenting the impact of last years draft class while ignoring the fact that we won 11 games and we still get to keep all those guys we drafted. If you think they all peaked as rookies, and that they won't continue to get better, then I guess I really don't know what to tell you...

I guess we see things differently in regards to the draft. I see the first two rounds where you can find players that can make an immediate impact -- especially if you are holding a top 10 pick in the 1st round. The middle rounds -- 3, 4, 5 are guys you draft to hopefully develop into quality players with some experience and coaching. The last couple rounds are nothing but a crap shoot, where you hope to strike gold, IMO.

And I'm not ignoring the fact we won 11 games -- but we won 11 games despite the fact we received next to nothing from our draft class, not because of help from the draft class. That is what I'm getting at. 4 of the next 7 picks after the Lions drafted this past year are going to the Pro Bowl. One was a 1st team all-pro. That bothers me.

I haven't given up on anyone in our draft class, but to think a team doesn't draft a player to play a major role on the team is just plain wrong, imo. Many positions in the NFL have a very small learning curve when you jump from college to the NFL and the talent level of players drafted in the 1st two rounds should most definitely upgrade a team immediately. To me -- the only positions where you can't expect immediate dividends is CB and QB. Those two positions are the two toughest, IMO, to make the jump from college to NFL and game experience and getting used to the speed of play takes some time.

I hate when I start typing and my son has to wake up from his nap and I lose my train of thought and what I was even talking about. I apologize if I rambled on this post, but my son wasn't very cooperative. LOL.

Basically -- I'm not giving up the draft class, but I expected a heck of a lot more than we received this year when we had a draft pick that high. I'd be more excited about the draft class if we even saw glimpses of being really good. It is tough to get overly excited when the best rookie we saw was Travis Swanson (though he did play well in his time on the field).

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I think the worst part of all the talk about the OL, Tulloch, possibly trading Calvin or losing Suh. 4 guys were drafted after the Lions drafted last year that could fill any of those spots.

CJ Moseley was a pro bowl LB for the Ravens

Aaron Donald was a pro bowl DT for the Rams

The ND guy on the Cowboys that play OG was a 1st team All-Pro

WR -- take your pick, but OBJ was absolutely amazing after returning from his injury


I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope that Ebron develops and turns into a difference maker on the offensive side of the ball. Last year's draft was stacked and we got no help at all from it this past year. Hopefully 2015 is a different story.

JMHO, I think it would be widely mistaken on your part to automatically assume that any of the aforementioned players would have performed as technically sound or statistically the same for the Lions as they did for their respective teams.

More than likely Donald would possibly have been the replacement for Fairley and OBJ would have possibly been the #2 WR behind Tate, after Calvin's injuries made him a decoy for 3 games and absent 3 games. We all know who Staff looks at 1st in that rotation of wr's regardless who's in there.

I can, however, agree that on paper it would seem any of those four might have/could have been productive for the Lions. There is absolutely no guarantee that any of those four would have though. Different system, scheme, coaches etc.

That ND guy, Zack Martin, might have struggled to learn the O-Line's blocking scheme. He was said to have an extremely high football IQ but you had veteran O-Linemen in Raiola and Sims who couldn't grasp the complexity of the blocking scheme (not that they are considered extremely smart guys but they both have had more than 9 yrs. in the NFL learning playbooks).

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

JMHO, I think it would be widely mistaken on your part to automatically assume that any of the aforementioned players would have performed as technically sound or statistically the same for the Lions as they did for their respective teams.

I'm not saying these guys would put up the same stats if they were on the Lions. I'm saying these were all impact players in their rookie season. So much so that they were named to the Pro Bowl or even the All-Pro team.

As far as the players not being as technically sound if they were on the Lions -- That'd be an issue with the coaching staff and would be extremely disappointing if that were the case.

In all honesty -- I wouldn't expect OBJ to have anywhere near the year he did if he were on the Lions, as he would have been, at best, the #2 option when Calvin was out. I do think he could have had a ton of big plays for us, as teams would have to single cover him and he showed, not even #1 CB's could cover him.

The other guys -- We have no idea how they would fare in the Lions system, but they showed elite talent and there is no reason to think they wouldn't have been impact players on the Lions, especially Martin. If the Lions 'blocking scheme' is so complex, it can turn a player named 1st team all-pro to an average player -- the OC needs to be fired. If the complexity of the Lions blocking scheme actually worked -- I'd have zero complaints. The Lions regressed tremendously on offense though and in the end, it was the offense that held us back this year.

 

[TwoCents22]

Ebron had the biggest playoff impact of any top 15 draft selection from last years draft.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

What are we doing??

Shouldn't we be hearing at least something about discussions being had between the Lions and ANY of our FA's? Is our front office on vacation?

We can't just sit idle while we wait on what happens with Suh. Mayhew promised us that we not only had enough space to franchise Suh but also to play in FA. If that's the truth then its ok to start inking deals and can create the additional space needed when/if we have a deal ready to go with Suh. So let's get our asses moving here and start working on getting some of the key guys back.

Maybe some of them don't want to sign early and would prefer to test FA and see what the market says their worth is but we should at least try.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Ebron had the biggest playoff impact of any top 15 draft selection from last years draft.

Let's just hope next year -- it is a positive impact.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Shouldn't we be hearing at least something about discussions being had between the Lions and ANY of our FA's? Is our front office on vacation?

We can't just sit idle while we wait on what happens with Suh. Mayhew promised us that we not only had enough space to franchise Suh but also to play in FA. If that's the truth then its ok to start inking deals and can create the additional space needed when/if we have a deal ready to go with Suh. So let's get our asses moving here and start working on getting some of the key guys back.

Maybe some of them don't want to sign early and would prefer to test FA and see what the market says their worth is but we should at least try.

Don't teams have to wait till after the Super Bowl before they can start re-signing guys? I haven't heard of any teams locking up prospective free agents yet...

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Don't teams have to wait till after the Super Bowl before they can start re-signing guys? I haven't heard of any teams locking up prospective free agents yet...

Not there own guys, the league year is still underway so they should be able to talk with anyone who is still technically under contract, including Suh.

 

[Microwahevo]

Frankie say Relax

Not there own guys, the league year is still underway so they should be able to talk with anyone who is still technically under contract, including Suh.

NFL announces dates for 2015 free agency, draft, combine | MLive.com

True. The season officially ends after the SB. So if a deal isn't reached with Suh by then(which seems highly unlikely) then everyone will have to wait until March 10th at 4pm to start signing guys.

Imo, all signs point to Suh being somewhere else next year. And life will go on. Many on here thought the defense would be in shambles after bringing Austin aboard, a guy with no D-coordinator experience. Now, no one wants to see him go(and it seems very likely he goes nowhere). This team will survive without Suh. I feel our front office, though inept at times, has a much better staff in place to evaluate our roster and future roster additions.

Until March 10th, it's all speculation as to what Suh will do.

 

[LPinSLC]

I read that there is a loophole in Suhs rookie contract that makes him a FA 5 days after the Superbowl.

 

[TwoCents22]

There is actually another year on Suh's contract, for $3.5 million. Only thing is, its a player option and voidable by Suh.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

There is actually another year on Suh's contract, for $3.5 million. Only thing is, its a player option and voidable by Suh.

Which he can void, and absolutely will, five days after the Super Bowl. So the Lions have until Feb 6 to get a deal done without a bidding war. I kept saying March 2 as the date we had to get a deal done because its the deadline date for the tag but I was wrong. After Feb 6th they cant negotiate with him until FA begins.

If resigning Suh is priority #1 then we sure aren't acting like it?

 

[tpaulus_2]

Which he can void, and absolutely will, five days after the Super Bowl. So the Lions have until Feb 6 to get a deal done without a bidding war. I kept saying March 2 as the date we had to get a deal done because its the deadline date for the tag but I was wrong. After Feb 6th they cant negotiate with him until FA begins.

If resigning Suh is priority #1 then we sure aren't acting like it?

Based on what?

I can't imagine either side would have any incentive to go to report to the media concerning ongoing negotiations right now. Sure, we'd like to be kept in the proverbial loop, but I don't see any reason why we would be on this one.

They could be negotiating (I'm sure they're at least trying) as we speak, and we'd never know it. Alternately, Suh might just be dead-set on exploring free agency, and if so then the front office isn't to blame for not getting him re-signed before Feb. 6th...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I would hope that Mayhew and Lewand would have spoken to Staff, Tate, Quin and their respective agents, in order to get a feel on possible re-structuring of their contracts.


Dr. Evil, we need these right ?




Mayhew, Xanders and scouting dept. should be in Mobile this week.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Based on what?

I can't imagine either side would have any incentive to go to report to the media concerning ongoing negotiations right now. Sure, we'd like to be kept in the proverbial loop, but I don't see any reason why we would be on this one.

They could be negotiating (I'm sure they're at least trying) as we speak, and we'd never know it. Alternately, Suh might just be dead-set on exploring free agency, and if so then the front office isn't to blame for not getting him re-signed before Feb. 6th...

You happen to think that nothing would leak about conversations being had? Out of all the media and inside sources available there would be nothing reported? I find that impossible to believe.

It's in Suh's best interest to have all the other teams in the league knowing that the Lions are aggressively pursuing getting a deal right now. Those other teams aren't going to think that we are low balling him so its his way of letting them know in advance its going to take a big number. Free agency is like a sealed bid auction where you better bring your very best offer or lose out to someone else. That's how he gets the most $, and that is surely what he is after.

Maybe he wouldn't sign anyway, I don't know that. But what I can tell you is this team needs to prep for FA because its going to look wildly different depending on what happens with Suh. If we aren't even talking with him then that is one seriously shitty way to plan.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I would hope that Mayhew and Lewand would have spoken to Staff, Tate, Quin and their respective agents, in order to get a feel on possible re-structuring of their contracts.

Dr. Evil, we need these right ?

Mayhew, Xanders and scouting dept. should be in Mobile this week.

We don't need any restructures yet. We have sufficient 2015 space to ink deals with Suh and our own key FA's now. Additional space can come at any moment with the expected cuts we will make. Once the 2015 cap is announced it will free up more space.

But the window where we can negotiate with Suh and our other guys is closing fast. Once that closes we cant do anything until March 10 when free agency opens. The only thing we could do is tag Suh up until March 2.

No idea what their plans are for FA. But if we tag Suh then restructures will be needed if we plan to add anyone other than veteran back ups.