Marte..... When?

[magnumo]

As we all know, the Pirates have repeatedly stated their commitment to start Marte at AAA Indianapolis. An important (and appropriate, imo) factor is delaying the start of his arbitration and free agent clocks. As such, assuming he performs well at Indy, conventional wisdom would dictate that Marte will be called up some time between mid-June and the All-Star break..... but other possibilities exist:

1. Marte continues to hit the cover off the ball, even against top major league pitchers (e.g., Cliff Lee) and forces the Pirates to bring him north at the beginning of the season.

2. An early injury occurs to one of the Pirates' starting outfielders, thus providing a space for Marte to play regularly. An early trade could produce a similar opportunity. Might Marte be promoted under such circumstances?

3. Marte plays well at Indianapolis..... and is promoted in mid-season, delaying the start of his arby and free agent clocks. In this scenario, it seems likely that he would take over a regular spot in the Pirates' OF.

4. For whatever reason (e.g., injury, weak hitting, failure to develop patience and/or power which the Pirates expect), Marte's call-up is delayed until at least September.

There are a few other less likely scenarios.

What are your expectations?

 

[thecrow124]

Where have we seen this before? Young guy tearing it up in the minors, needs to be on the major league roster, but there doesn't seem to be a spot for him. Sounds about like the Andrew McCutchen scenario to me. I think ideally the Pirates would like to move Presley since Tabata is under control for so long to make room for Matte, but if Presley continues to outperform Tabata their hand may be forced.

Realistically, he could probably go to the major opening day and be successful for a while, if not forever, but is it worth it to have him jump AAA and take the bigger chance that he might flame out?

Currently there are a lot of scenarios I could see playing out, but none of them involve starting his arby clock this season.

The only thing I can say with any certainty is that there will be a trade involving an outfielder before he is called up.

 

[26 elroy face]

This is what I can't understand. Why is Tabata a given, and Presley not. From what I've seen Presley is definitely the better hitter. They can't even get the lineup right. Presley should bat behind Tabata.

 

[element1286]

I don't see it before September.

 

[element1286]

This is what I can't understand. Why is Tabata a given, and Presley not. From what I've seen Presley is definitely the better hitter. They can't even get the lineup right. Presley should bat behind Tabata.

Tabata signed a long term deal, so they are committed to him.

 

[magnumo]

I don't see it before September.

If they wait till September 2012, I'd guess Marte's "permanent" call won't come until mid-season 2013. If he's as good as he's looked during ST so far, they'll want to control him for an extra year.

On the other hand, so many things can happen (injuries, trades, etc.) to cloud the crystal ball.

Heck..... maybe Gorkys will figure out how to use a bat, or perhaps Grossman will tear up AA and force a promotion. It's been so long since the Pirates had that kind of "problem" that it's difficult to speculate.

 

[magnumo]

This is what I can't understand. Why is Tabata a given, and Presley not. From what I've seen Presley is definitely the better hitter. They can't even get the lineup right. Presley should bat behind Tabata.

I believe element gave the correct answer to the first part of your post.

Meanwhile, I see no guarantee that Presley is a better hitter than Tabata. I'm not a betting man, but if forced to bet, I'd be inclined to pick Tabata to have a better offensive season. I think Tabata has a very high ceiling.

As far as the lineup goes, they may want Presley to be more patient..... and they may want to encourage Tabata to continue to use the entire field. If that's the case, batting Presley leadoff and Tabata second makes some sense. On the other hand, if both Presley and Tabata perform up to expectations, batting them in either order should work just fine.

 

[Darkstone42]

I believe element gave the correct answer to the first part of your post.

Meanwhile, I see no guarantee that Presley is a better hitter than Tabata. I'm not a betting man, but if forced to bet, I'd be inclined to pick Tabata to have a better offensive season. I think Tabata has a very high ceiling.

As far as the lineup goes, they may want Presley to be more patient..... and they may want to encourage Tabata to continue to use the entire field. If that's the case, batting Presley leadoff and Tabata second makes some sense. On the other hand, if both Presley and Tabata perform up to expectations, batting them in either order should work just fine.

I agree with you on Tabata. As I've stated in other threads, I expect a very strong offensive season from Jose this year. I can't really compare him to Presley because I haven't seen enough of Presley yet, but Tabata's approach, control of the strike zone, and ability to hit the ball on a line to all fields seems like a skill set which should result in strong offensive production, especially when factoring his speed.

If I remember correctly, he got injured last season just as he was starting to heat up. I think what we got from Jose last year is about the worst we'll see from him in a Pirates uniform. Perhaps it's a somewhat bold prediction, given his youth, but barring a huge surge of productivity from Alvarez, I anticipate Tabata being our second best hitter this year after McCutchen, and I don't see the gap being all that large.

 

[26 elroy face]

I believe element gave the correct answer to the first part of your post.

Meanwhile, I see no guarantee that Presley is a better hitter than Tabata. I'm not a betting man, but if forced to bet, I'd be inclined to pick Tabata to have a better offensive season. I think Tabata has a very high ceiling.

As far as the lineup goes, they may want Presley to be more patient..... and they may want to encourage Tabata to continue to use the entire field. If that's the case, batting Presley leadoff and Tabata second makes some sense. On the other hand, if both Presley and Tabata perform up to expectations, batting them in either order should work just fine.

I think you want a hitter that can hit behind the runner to bat second. Presley has the ability to pull the ball. He has also shown that he can hit to all fields, and that he has more pop than Tabata. On the other hand Tabata is prone to hit into double plays because hits a lot of ground balls, where as Presley is harder to double up because gets down the line quicker.

There is no quarantee that Presley will be the better hitter in 2012, but I like his chances.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think you want a hitter that can hit behind the runner to bat second. Presley has the ability to pull the ball. He has also shown that he can hit to all fields, and that he has more pop than Tabata. On the other hand Tabata is prone to hit into double plays because hits a lot of ground balls, where as Presley is harder to double up because gets down the line quicker.

There is no quarantee that Presley will be the better hitter in 2012, but I like his chances.

The rates at which Tabata and Presley get down the line are awfully comparable, and I can't see either hitting into a lot of double plays since they're both really fast, so that consideration is essentially negligible. One or two double plays over the course of a season is not going to play much of a role.

And Tabata hits the ball to all fields, so he can hit the ball behind Presley just as well as Presley could hit behind Tabata. Beyond that, if that's your concern, having Tabata bat second opens up more hit-and-run possibilities since the second baseman would vacate in that situation, which will, assuming Tabata puts the ball on the ground to the right side (which based on his batted ball profile seems pretty likely) has a pretty good chance of resulting in a Tabata on first, Presley on third type of situation.

Presley will probably have more power than Tabata, though. I'll give you that much.

 

[magnumo]

I think you want a hitter that can hit behind the runner to bat second. Presley has the ability to pull the ball. He has also shown that he can hit to all fields, and that he has more pop than Tabata. On the other hand Tabata is prone to hit into double plays because hits a lot of ground balls, where as Presley is harder to double up because gets down the line quicker.

There is no quarantee that Presley will be the better hitter in 2012, but I like his chances.

Fair enough.

Just a couple of comments:

- Tabata also hits to all fields.

- When his legs are sound, Tabata appears to be the better base-stealer. But having Presley bat leadoff may be part of Hurdle's program to get Presley to run more.

At any rate, either guy in either position at 1-2 is OK with me. I'm just hoping they both stay healthy and perform.

 

[Illinest]

They're basically the same hitter. Arguing one over the other is futile.

The only thing that might make a difference is the R/L matchups. Since McC is batting third then it makes sense to bat the lefty second.

In the long run I would prefer to see McCutchen bat second so that he gets more at bats, but that can only happen if we find some middle of the order hitters.